Stewster has sent me his calculations!!! (sort of)

[Straha]

Taken directly from the E-mail he sent me, no editing has been done by me on his behalf, and I make no statement on his calculations.

Death Star equasions;
1. I read that the average velocity of the fragments from Alderans explosion
were "clocked" by counting pixels at 1.35 diamiters per second on one of the
other site that feature this topic.
2. Someone else from this board claimed that 17,000Km/S was too slow, when I
mentioned that site. Therefore, I used that # as the average speed in a
simple calculation in my head to find the approximate energy in Joules.
(Looking back now, it is obvious that I made a mistake in those figures.)
3. After the fact, I now will get out my calculator and will do the math
exactly for the first time.
3A. Suppositions; Alderan and Earth are approximately the same size.
(12,880Km. OD)
4. 1.35x12,880Km.=17,388Km.=17,388,000M/S.
5. Earth's/Alderan's mass from page 194 of the "POCKET REF", by THOMAS J.
GLOVER = 1.317X10^25 Pounds = 5.974x10^27Grams.
6. 17,388,000^2=((3.023^14x5.974^27Grams)= 1.806^42) / 2000 =9.031^38J. =
~1^39J!
7. Objections to this line of thought are;
A. That the above velocity is for the leading edge fragments and that the
average velocity is/must be, much less.
B. That according to the film, at least some of the fragments lacked
sufficiant velosity to escape gravity, as evidensed by the Metor storm when
Han comes out of Hyper Space near were Alderan should have been.

Using more concervitave numbers for the average velocity of the planets
fragments, I.E. 8,694,000M/S.

8,694,000^2 = 7.56^13, 7.56^13x5.974^27=4.515^41, /2000=2.26^38J.

That gives us an honest CANNON figure of the energy of Alderan's exposion
based on the velosity obtained by counting the pixels and as evidenced by
the reallitive velocity of the "metior" fragments.

My problem is not with that number, but with the claim that all of that
energy came from the DS.

If it did and the mechanism was a billion times more efficiant that any
machine ever built by us, ( A magneticaly levitated, cryogenicaly cooled
super conducting electric motor, smaller than the head of a pin.) it would
have to absorb and then dissipate ~2^27J. Since the DS is only 1/1,240,000
of the planets volume and much less dense than any planet, absorbing even a
tiny fraction of that energy would of course vaporise it.

Therefore since the energy obviously blew the planet apart, it had to come
from some place else besides the DS. In the search for the source of that
energy, the only place that I could think to get it is from the planet it
self. When I read some article about a heavy metal core inside Earth, I
siezed on that as the best possable source of that energy.

[Ted C]

My problem is not with that number, but with the claim that all of that energy came from the DS.

If it did and the mechanism was a billion times more efficiant that any
machine ever built by us, ( A magneticaly levitated, cryogenicaly cooled
super conducting electric motor, smaller than the head of a pin.) it would
have to absorb and then dissipate ~2^27J. Since the DS is only 1/1,240,000 of the planets volume and much less dense than any planet, absorbing even a tiny fraction of that energy would of course vaporise it.

Therefore since the energy obviously blew the planet apart, it had to come
from some place else besides the DS. In the search for the source of that
energy, the only place that I could think to get it is from the planet it
self. When I read some article about a heavy metal core inside Earth, I
siezed on that as the best possable source of that energy.

So he realizes that our energy figures are correct, but he rejects the obvious conclusion that the Death Star supplied this energy based on the assumption that a civilization thousands of years older than ours can't possibly have developed the ultra-efficient energy transfer methods and heat dissipation methods better than the most efficient modern, real-world device that he knows about. He therefore came up with his lame-brained theory that a planet is a giant atomic bomb waiting to explode.

Stewie is still an idiot.

[Darth Wong]

I demanded that he produce calculations showing that his bullshit nuclear fission reaction can actually occur, not a copy of my calculations for the energy involved at Alderaan. What an imbecile.

[Master of Ossus]

What a dumbass. We wanted calculations regarding his alleged nuclear planet core model, not about the Alderaan destruction.

Moreover, we KNOW from the Death Star that SW materials strength/mass is tens of thousands of times better than anything we can come up with today. By his "logic," the construction of the DS is therefore impossible and should be rejected. It's ludicrous, though, to expect a civilization that can design such an incredible battlestation in the first place cannot come up with energy transfer mechanisms better than our own.

BTW, I have no idea how he comes to the "a billion times more efficiant than any machine ever built by us" would be required. Even simple things, like the electric fan sitting on my desk, provides reasonable efficiency (ie. greater than 50%). Making things with upwards of 75% efficiency is trivial, and the DS does not need to break 100% efficiency--it merely has to come close.

PS. I thought Stewart was being paid thousands of dollars a month to think "outside the box." He sure isn't capable of seeing past modern limitations, is he?

[Darth Wong]

His "efficiency" argument is moronic. He's basically arguing that any sci-fi technology which exceeds the limits of real technology must be impossible, even if it's not strictly impossible. Funny how he doesn't apply this standard to Star Trek ...

[The Dude]

By acknowledging that the ~1e38J figure is correct, he is unwittingly admitting that his precious 80km ball, even if it was a giant fission bomb just waiting to go off, would still come up many orders of magnitude short on the energy requirement.

IOW, not only are his arguments fucking stupid; they're internally inconsistent.

[The Kernel]

IOW, not only are his arguments fucking stupid; they're internally inconsistent.

That's extremely typical for people who are trying to modify observation to fit their conclusions. They expend so much energy trying to shoot down individual points, that they usually end up shooting themselves in the foot with their mangled theories. Of course, this won't deter them since they don't see these debates as coming up with a grand theory for the respective universes technology levels, but as a fight to win as many individual points as they can.

[aerius]

Stewie learned how to use email? Guess he's like 10 times smarter than I though he was...of course, 10 times nothing is still nothing...

It's funny how he was trying to throw out the 10^39J number and replace it with something like 10^24 or 32 or whatever, and now he goes back and says the big number is right. What a fruitcake.

[The Kernel]

Aerius, are you constantly shifting avatars with Muse or something? Are you trying to fuck with my head or something?

[Master of Ossus]

By acknowledging that the ~1e38J figure is correct, he is unwittingly admitting that his precious 80km ball, even if it was a giant fission bomb just waiting to go off, would still come up many orders of magnitude short on the energy requirement.

IOW, not only are his arguments fucking stupid; they're internally inconsistent.

His claims are all FUBARed. His ludicrous efficiency argument is one of the worst I've ever seen, and his dismal inability to provide calculations for his own theories, even when prompted, is pathetic.

[Darth Servo]

Since the DS is only 1/1,240,000 of the planets volume and much less dense than any planet, absorbing even a tiny fraction of that energy would of course vaporise it.

Is he talking about the station as a whole or the materials used to build it? In either case, how does he know it's less dense?

[RedImperator]

Since the DS is only 1/1,240,000 of the planets volume and much less dense than any planet, absorbing even a tiny fraction of that energy would of course vaporise it.

Is he talking about the station as a whole or the materials used to build it? In either case, how does he know it's less dense?

I guess he's presuming less density because the habitable sections will be about 90% air (a figure that seems right to me based on what we saw of the DSII's interior structure). But we have no idea how dense the hypermatter reactor is, or the presumably high density metals used in the main structural members and the armor.

[Patrick Degan]

But we have no idea how dense the hypermatter reactor is, or the presumably high density metals used in the main structural members and the armor.

On the other hand, we certainly do know how dense Stewpid is.

Seriously, this is the biggest idiot we've had at SD.net. The goddamn movie clearly shows the expansion of the debris field occuring within 3-5 seconds screen time maximum before it reaches the outer edges of the viewing frame, so the scale of the event is beyond dispute.

His second objection of some of the fragments "clearly lacking escape velocity" is ludicrous beyond belief. What does he base that on? A single line of dialogue which he takes as meaning the location of the MF in the debris storm instead of where Alderaan is expected to be from his navigation readouts compared to the point where he exited hyperspace? Does he believe a ship exits hyperspace in close orbit?

His third argument is equally ludicrous. The Death Star wouldn't be "absorbing" anything; any waste heat involved in the generation of its energies or the firing of the superlaser would already be radiating out into space. The Death Star isn't a fucking heat-sink.

From here, we're eventually led to Stewpid's version of the many-times-shredded Krypton Theory of Alderaan's Destruction. As has no doubt been pointed out many times before, a planetary core does not, cannot, provide the necessary conditions for creating a critical mass. Even a coffee-table book about nuclear weapons lays out how an atomic bomb works in clear enough terms that anyone can understand. Well, that is, most people. Evidently not simple enough for our so-called "weapons expert", however.

The rest of his argument basically comes down to: "I don't believe it could have been done, therefore it isn't possible". Boil down all his bullshit and it basically comes to those twelve words.

Well, if Stewpid is still reading this, the situation basically comes down to this:

WE SEE IT. IT HAPPENED. DEAL WITH IT.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Stewie learned how to use email? Guess he's like 10 times smarter than I though he was...

He had to be able to use email to register here.

[Uraniun235]

Stewie learned how to use email?

He can even send packages via the USPS.

[Darth Servo]

I guess he's presuming less density because the habitable sections will be about 90% air (a figure that seems right to me based on what we saw of the DSII's interior structure).

And given that the DS2 was still under construction, is useless for determining the density of a completed station.