New study: P2P does not significantly affect CD sales

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New study: P2P does not significantly affect CD sales

Post by Durandal »

c|net wrote:Music sharing doesn't kill CD sales, study says

By John Borland
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

A study of file-sharing's effects on music sales says online music trading appears to have had little part in the recent slide in CD sales.

For the study, released Monday, researchers at Harvard University and the University of North Carolina tracked music downloads over 17 weeks in 2002, matching data on file transfers with actual market performance of the songs and albums being downloaded. Even high levels of file-swapping seemed to translate into an effect on album sales that was "statistically indistinguishable from zero," they wrote.

"We find that file sharing has only had a limited effect on record sales," the study's authors wrote. "While downloads occur on a vast scale, most users are likely individuals who would not have bought the album even in the absence of file sharing."

The study, the most detailed economic modeling survey to use data obtained directly from file-sharing networks, is sure to rekindle debates over the effects of widely used software such as Kazaa or Morpheus on an ailing record business.

Big record labels have seen their sales slide precipitously in the past several years, and have blamed the falling revenue in large part on rampant free music downloads online. Others have pointed to additional factors, such as lower household spending during the recession, and increased competition from other entertainment forms such as DVDs and video games, each of which have grown over the same time period.

Executives at file-sharing companies welcomed the survey, saying it should help persuade reluctant record company executives to use peer-to-peer networks as distribution channels for music

"We welcome sound research into the developing peer-to-peer industry, and this study appears to have covered some interesting ground," said Nikki Hemming, chief executive officer of Kazaa parent Sharman Networks. "Consider the possibilities if the record industry actually cooperated with companies like us instead of fighting."

The study, performed by Harvard Business School associate professor Felix Oberholzer and University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill associate professor Koleman Strumpf, used logs from two OpenNap servers in late 2002 to observe about 1.75 million downloads over their 17 week sample period.

That sample revealed interesting behavioral, as well as economic, data. Researchers found that the average user logged in only twice during that period, downloading about 17 songs. Some people vastly overshot that average, however--one user apparently logged in 71 times, downloading more than 5,000 songs.

The two professors narrowed their sample base by choosing a random sample of 500 albums from the sales charts of various music genres, and then compared the sales of these albums to the number of associated downloads.

Even in the most pessimistic version of their model, they found that it would take about 5,000 downloads to displace sales of just one physical CD, the authors wrote. Despite the huge scale of downloading worldwide, that would be only a tiny contribution to the overall slide in album sales over the past several years, they said.

Moreover, their data seemed to show that downloads could even have a slight positive effect on the sales of the top albums, the researchers said.

The study is unlikely to be the last word on the issue. Previous studies have been released showing that file sharing had both positive and negative effects on music sales.

The Recording Industry Association of America was quick to dismiss the results as inconsistent with earlier findings.

"Countless well-respected groups and analysts, including Edison Research, Forrester, and the University of Texas, among others, have all determined that illegal file sharing has adversely impacted the sales of CDs," RIAA spokeswoman Amy Weiss said in a statement. "Our own surveys show that those who are downloading more are buying less."
In other recording industry news, it turns out that the Australian Recording Industry has been deliberately trying to conceal the fact that it's had its best year ever. Gee, I wonder why.
smh.co.au wrote:Music industry way off track with song and dance about falling sales

Figures show that we're buying albums in record numbers, despite the internet 'freeloaders', writes Steve Cannane.

The Australian record industry has just had its best year ever. But it doesn't want you to know about it. This month ARIA announced its sales figures for last year. In its press release, it talked about Delta, it talked about falling CD singles sales, it talked about the rise in DVD sales, but at no stage did it tell us it was the industry's best year ever. Why bury the good news?

Record industry types aren't usually shy about success. But this time their success is a little embarrassing. For the past few years the industry has argued that file-sharing and CD burning is having a negative impact on sales. But, unfortunately, their own sales figures don't back up their arguments.

ARIA's press release was slugged with a bizarre headline: "Music DVD continues its rise whilst CD singles slide further". A mixed year, you might think. Not so. It took a canny finance reporter, SBS's Peter Martin, to decode the spin. He had access to ARIA sales figures going back to the early 1980s. He worked out what ARIA knew but decided not to share: when sales cracked 50 million albums for the year it was the first time this had happened. And combined sales of all formats for last year climbed to more than 65 million for the first time.

But that's just one year, I hear the record companies say. OK, let's go back to 1998. The year before an 18-year-old college dropout named Shawn Fanning wrote a file-sharing program called Napster, the software that kick-started the downloading boom. In that year Australian record companies sold 39.6 million CD albums. Five years later the figure had gone up to 50.5 million. That makes it hard to argue that downloading and CD copying has been killing sales.

But what about the sales of singles, I hear the record companies cry. Singles sales did fall last year by a significant amount. While album sales increased by 7.85 per cent, singles sales went down by 16.5 per cent. But what would you rather? We know which format makes the most money. ARIA wants to stress the drop in singles sales because it suits its argument.

But it's not telling the whole truth. It neglects to mention the record companies are not releasing as many singles as they used to. Sales of singles do not make much money. Singles are these days pretty much released for promotional purposes - to get radio play and drum up interest in an album. In the US, singles have virtually disappeared from sale.

But what about our research, I hear the record companies scream. ARIA paid a research company to survey music consumers. The survey results suggest there's been a 12 per cent decrease in CD purchases by people who are into file-sharing. The greatest percentage is with the under-17s - people who don't have much money. But the research suggests those with the money, the 45 and overs, are buying more CDs after file-sharing. Now that's a statistic we never hear quoted.

According to Stephen Peach, CEO of ARIA, "The free ride simply can't continue indefinitely at the expense of the owners and creators of music."

If we ignore the rhetoric of record companies caring about artists for a moment, let's think about this. Maybe it's the record industry that's getting a free ride from file-sharing - a massive marketing system that allows music lovers to get exposed to all kinds of music without the record industry having to pay a cent.

I'll tell you what the record companies are paying for now, and it's not scholarships for the struggling artists they say they're trying to protect. It's lawsuits. ARIA is taking on Kazaa and suing university students. American record companies have sued nearly 2000 file-sharers in the past six months. Even the FBI has become involved. It says music piracy has become its third priority behind terrorism and counter-intelligence. A number of US Congress members who rely on the entertainment industry for campaign funds lobbied the FBI to spend more money hunting file-sharers and CD burners. So now CDs in the US carry FBI stickers warning of fines of $250,000 or five years in prison.

There's been no similar push by Australia's Federal Police. But keep your eyes on the figures - next year could be another record year for album sales and for prosecutions.

Steve Cannane is a Triple J broadcaster.
Apparently, the UK's industry is enjoying similar success.

Excuse me while I go weep for the recording industries. They've got it really rough.
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Post by The Kernel »

Even if it DID affect CD sales, I wouldn't give a shit. The artists make virtually no money of CD sales (all on tours) except for those who have enough long-term popularity to work out a decent contract. Strange isn't it that those very same bands are the ones protesting P2P. :roll:
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Falling on deaf and dumb ears.
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Post by Stofsk »

The Kernel wrote:Even if it DID affect CD sales, I wouldn't give a shit. The artists make virtually no money of CD sales (all on tours) except for those who have enough long-term popularity to work out a decent contract. Strange isn't it that those very same bands are the ones protesting P2P. :roll:
No-one ever had to say musicians had to be intelligent. ;)
The 2nd Article, near the bottom wrote:...Even the FBI has become involved. It says music piracy has become its third priority behind terrorism and counter-intelligence. A number of US Congress members who rely on the entertainment industry for campaign funds lobbied the FBI to spend more money hunting file-sharers and CD burners. So now CDs in the US carry FBI stickers warning of fines of $250,000 or five years in prison.
:shock: Holy shit, what the fuck are these guys trying to pull? Music pirates are Public Enemy No. 3? Dear god, I can't believe the FBI would waste time with this bullshit. Don't they have serial killers to catch or terrorists to look out for? And damn but the punishment seems a tad harsh. Five years in prison for burning a CD?

Or is this something which looks good on paper ie something to say "Look, we're doing something about the Problem" but hard to enforce?
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Re: New study: P2P does not significantly affect CD sales

Post by Peregrin Toker »

The Recording Industry Association of America was quick to dismiss the results as inconsistent with earlier findings.

"Countless well-respected groups and analysts, including Edison Research, Forrester, and the University of Texas, among others, have all determined that illegal file sharing has adversely impacted the sales of CDs," RIAA spokeswoman Amy Weiss said in a statement. "Our own surveys show that those who are downloading more are buying less."
Edison Research, aye? Aren't they (along with the Edison Foundation and the Edison Institution) part of the same conspiracy which is keeping the public in ignorance of Nikola Tesla's achievements?
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Post by Batman »

Color me unsurprised.
Though the news from Australia IS rather emberassing for the record industry...

Color me smirking :P
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Post by Pablo Sanchez »

Stofsk wrote: :shock: Holy shit, what the fuck are these guys trying to pull? Music pirates are Public Enemy No. 3? Dear god, I can't believe the FBI would waste time with this bullshit. Don't they have serial killers to catch or terrorists to look out for? And damn but the punishment seems a tad harsh. Five years in prison for burning a CD?
I would have expected the FBI to be doing something like... I don't know... investigating those crimes which actually have victims. Nobody cares about some fucking career musician who loses a few cents on every dollar he used to make because of music piracy... especially because it appears that they actually aren't losing very much money at all.
Or is this something which looks good on paper ie something to say "Look, we're doing something about the Problem" but hard to enforce?
It's pretty much unenforceable, actually. What you've got is bits of data jumping from computer to computer on the P2P networks. Unlike Napster, the newer programs have no centralized server to attack. The FBI would have to find each user individually, collect evidence on each, and arraign them separately. There are millions of people using P2P, and anything that could make the slightest dent in the "problem" would probably cost more than the amount which the record companies are purporting to have lost.

I think the FBI is just giving lip service to this thing, as often happens when pressure is brought to bear on them. "We're definitely looking into it, Senator! We're already closing the files on several dozen unsolved interstate mass-murder sprees so we can put more agents to work shoring up Sony Music Group's stock prices."
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Post by Durandal »

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Pablo Sanchez wrote: I would have expected the FBI to be doing something like... I don't know... investigating those crimes which actually have victims.
What, you weren't aware of the "War on Drugs"?
Nobody cares about some fucking career musician who loses a few cents on every dollar he used to make because of music piracy... especially because it appears that they actually aren't losing very much money at all.
Oh I think that there are plenty of people that stand to lose money from P2P. They aren't the vast majority of the artists though, they are the useless middlemen that are the record industry. I wonder if people know what the business model of the recording industry actually is. Here, I'll lay it out for you:

1) Sign new artists into enormously unfair contracts that they will only sign out of ignorance and necessity since the chances of becoming famous without the cartel that is the major record labels is slim.

2) Give the artists the resources to record an album.

3) Promote said album and release it to stores.

4) Recoup all the money spent on recording by cutting into the artists cut of the record sales instead of the enormous cut that the record company has already taken.

5) The artist is now heavily in debt despite selling millions of records and has to go out on tour to make a living. If he/she/they can remain popular for four or five albums (something that is extremely unlikely in the age of one hit wonders) then they have a chance to renegotiate the contract and start making decent money off record sales, but until then they must tour just to pay back the record label and try to make a living for themselves.

In other words, the record companies make millions and almost none of it goes to the artists. You know what I do instead of buying CD's? I go to concerts and even by a t-shirt, knowing that a much greater percentage of the proceedes will go to the artists.
It's pretty much unenforceable, actually. What you've got is bits of data jumping from computer to computer on the P2P networks. Unlike Napster, the newer programs have no centralized server to attack. The FBI would have to find each user individually, collect evidence on each, and arraign them separately. There are millions of people using P2P, and anything that could make the slightest dent in the "problem" would probably cost more than the amount which the record companies are purporting to have lost.
Millions of people use drugs too--does this stop the FBI/DEA from cracking down on that?
I think the FBI is just giving lip service to this thing, as often happens when pressure is brought to bear on them. "We're definitely looking into it, Senator! We're already closing the files on several dozen unsolved interstate mass-murder sprees so we can put more agents to work shoring up Sony Music Group's stock prices."
Perhaps, but the fact that the RIAA has been trying to sue people directly from Federal Court without having to file lawsuits in individual counties does not bode well for this. People used to say the same thing about free DirecTV, and look what happened with THAT.
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Post by General Zod »

wow. so it turns out the RIAAs effort of hunting down "criminals" whose downloading activities have a completely insignificant impact on the music and recording industry was a big waste of time, dollars and manpower. gee, what a big surprise. moving to canada becomes more appealing with each passing day.
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Post by Pablo Sanchez »

The Kernel wrote:Millions of people use drugs too--does this stop the FBI/DEA from cracking down on that?
The war on drugs is primarily conducted by state and local law enforcement and the DEA; in any case the majority of the effort is directed against drug dealers rather than the average user, and it is possible to interdict international shipments.

P2P is an entirely different situation and is only comparable in the vaguest way, because there is no material resource being moved.
Perhaps, but the fact that the RIAA has been trying to sue people directly from Federal Court without having to file lawsuits in individual counties does not bode well for this.
IIRC they got slapped by the courts on that, they must now file on a case by case basis.

At any rate...
Civil court cases != FBI crackdown.
People used to say the same thing about free DirecTV, and look what happened with THAT.
Again, very different from P2P. There were dealers of pirated equipment, and it all existed in the physical world.
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Post by Pablo Sanchez »

Darth_Zod wrote:wow. so it turns out the RIAAs effort of hunting down "criminals" whose downloading activities have a completely insignificant impact on the music and recording industry was a big waste of time, dollars and manpower. gee, what a big surprise. moving to canada becomes more appealing with each passing day.
I wonder how much more the RIAA could boost the profit margin if they offered a deal whereby angered fans could kick the President of the RIAA square in the nuts for $50. :wink:
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Post by Durandal »

Pablo Sanchez wrote:The war on drugs is primarily conducted by state and local law enforcement and the DEA; in any case the majority of the effort is directed against drug dealers rather than the average user, and it is possible to interdict international shipments.
Most states declare war on the individual users, as well. You can get six months for simple possession.
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

In other news: The sky is blue.

I wouldn't have bought any of the non-soundtrack albums I have in the past year if it weren't for the fact that I DLed a few songs by the artist beforehand, and decided I liked them.
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Post by Andrew J. »

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Darth_Zod wrote:wow. so it turns out the RIAAs effort of hunting down "criminals" whose downloading activities have a completely insignificant impact on the music and recording industry was a big waste of time, dollars and manpower. gee, what a big surprise. moving to canada becomes more appealing with each passing day.
I wonder how much more the RIAA could boost the profit margin if they offered a deal whereby angered fans could kick the President of the RIAA square in the nuts for $50. :wink:
Millions, at least. But wasn't the RIAA president a woman a year ago?
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Post by Pablo Sanchez »

Durandal wrote:Most states declare war on the individual users, as well. You can get six months for simple possession.
I'm well aware of that fact, but there is little active hunting of users. Someone who can be easily caught will be nailed for it, but the police don't generally go out of their way to hunt them down. But we're moving off-topic.

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As of this moment I believe the President of the RIAA is Cary Sherman, a man (AFAIK).
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Post by EmperorMing »

News of this kind has been out before, just not a lot of people hear about it.
Acording to a couple of studies that were done already, CD sales actually went *up* because of the P2P sharing. Of course, the economy was better then too.

It's no wonder the recording indfustry wants to hide this, they just want total control of what you hear and want to charge you out the wazoo to do it.

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Pablo Sanchez wrote:I'm well aware of that fact, but there is little active hunting of users. Someone who can be easily caught will be nailed for it, but the police don't generally go out of their way to hunt them down.
What do you call school lockdowns?
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Post by kojikun »

Andrew J. wrote:Millions, at least. But wasn't the RIAA president a woman a year ago?
She can get a sex change op. The money made from the kick-Hilary-Rosen-in-the-balls gig could easilly cover the op..
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Post by Rogue 9 »

Durandal wrote:
Pablo Sanchez wrote:I'm well aware of that fact, but there is little active hunting of users. Someone who can be easily caught will be nailed for it, but the police don't generally go out of their way to hunt them down.
What do you call school lockdowns?
What, you think they don't nail students for alcohol and tobacco, both legal for adults, as well? :roll: That has more to do with the fact that it involves children rather than a desire to go after all users in general, and if they ever did legalize drugs, they would still be illegal for school age children, unless Congress was smoking crack itself.

On the original topic, whether those who steal the music would buy it otherwise or not doesn't make it any less of a theft. And what the RIAA does is racketeering, plain and simple, but that doesn't make stealing from them any more right. Bring an antitrust suit and racketeering charges? Amazed it hasn't happened yet and it really should. They gouge the musicians and they gouge the customers. They suppress competition. The RIAA definitely holds a monopoly. The list goes on. But write your Congressman or bring charges or something, don't steal from them. :roll:
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Post by EmperorMing »

Rogue 9 wrote: ...
On the original topic, whether those who steal the music would buy it otherwise or not doesn't make it any less of a theft. And what the RIAA does is racketeering, plain and simple, but that doesn't make stealing from them any more right. Bring an antitrust suit and racketeering charges? Amazed it hasn't happened yet and it really should. They gouge the musicians and they gouge the customers. They suppress competition. The RIAA definitely holds a monopoly. The list goes on. But write your Congressman or bring charges or something, don't steal from them. :roll:
This makes the most sense of all. Hopefully that one lady sueing the RIAA for this very fact will start the ball rolling.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Rogue, sorry to point this out to you, and it's a concept that seems harder and harder to get across to people....

COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT IS NOT THEFT.

It is a very very different thing. You are infringing up thier right to COPY the material, rather than STEALING the material. In the case of theft you are taking thier item and depriving them of it, in copyright infringment you are COPYING it and they still have the original.
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Post by m112880 »

This is way I hate the Recording Industry. The only thing their trying to do is make more money and instead of lowing proces or putting out cds that more then one good song on them, their going after the file swapping claiming thats its causing the lost of sales, even when there is no loss of sales.
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Post by consequences »

Has it been declared illegal to record songs played on the radio?
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Post by Durandal »

Rogue 9 wrote:What, you think they don't nail students for alcohol and tobacco, both legal for adults, as well? :roll: That has more to do with the fact that it involves children rather than a desire to go after all users in general, and if they ever did legalize drugs, they would still be illegal for school age children, unless Congress was smoking crack itself.
What the fuck are you rambling about? The purpose of lockdowns is to search for drugs, ergo, the users are getting nailed. No student hides alcohol in his locker, and smokers carry their cigarettes on them.
On the original topic, whether those who steal the music would buy it otherwise or not doesn't make it any less of a theft. And what the RIAA does is racketeering, plain and simple, but that doesn't make stealing from them any more right. Bring an antitrust suit and racketeering charges? Amazed it hasn't happened yet and it really should. They gouge the musicians and they gouge the customers. They suppress competition. The RIAA definitely holds a monopoly. The list goes on. But write your Congressman or bring charges or something, don't steal from them.
It's with great sadness that I say you're naive. Your Congressman doesn't give a shit. If the RIAA is funneling hundreds of thousands of dollars into his campaign, then the only thing that will make him pay attention to you is giving him more money than they do.

It's somewhat funny that the people who stand to lose the most from campaign finance reform are the ones who are voting on it, and the ones who stand to gain the most (ordinary citizens) are stuck out in the cold.
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