X43 Hits Mach 7!

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Someone should please explain to me how ANY plane could produce radically different sonic bomms.

[Howedar]

I'd be rather curious to know as well.

[Crayz9000]

Someone should please explain to me how ANY plane could produce radically different sonic bomms.

If the mystery plane went supersonic in a special medium -- let's call it 'ether' for simplicity's sake -- then there is the possibility of the sonic boom sounding different (like flatulence, just much louder). This is because the properties of the ether are what would dictate its sound; for example, it might make the sound waves travel perpendicular to the way they normally travel.

Ether concentrations large enough to cause such strange effects must then exist above the part of England where the ex-military observer was. It could be that the ether was the result of a secret weapons test on Aurora, and that Aurora promptly flew through the ether cloud left by its own weapon, thus causing the strange-sounding sonic boom.

Disclaimer: This post was made entirely tongue-in-cheek. Disclaimer only necessary for the impaired of humor, as it should be quite obvious otherwise.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Flying through jelly would make a different sonic boom.

[pellaeons_scion]

Ok, so they made a craft that can reach Mach7. Thats cool and all, but what use is it? Any really effective military application for it, or was it just an excercise inrecord breaking?

I mean I dont think you could dogfight at that speed, your turning circle would be pretty poor, maybe as a pure interceptor, or high speed cruise missiles. Aside from that I dont really see much use for it at present.

Still a cool acheivement mind you, just Id like to know if theres any valid application of it.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Ok, so they made a craft that can reach Mach7. Thats cool and all, but what use is it? Any really effective military application for it, or was it just an excercise inrecord breaking?

I mean I dont think you could dogfight at that speed, your turning circle would be pretty poor, maybe as a pure interceptor, or high speed cruise missiles. Aside from that I dont really see much use for it at present.

Still a cool acheivement mind you, just Id like to know if theres any valid application of it.

Dogfighting at that speed is absurd. You'd just break up, thankfully that's why no one wanted this to be a super fighter as the emphasis on fighter speed died years back given agility and stealth took the front seat.

This would, however, be an obvious advancement for commercial airliners (if you can get around the cost, the aerothermodynamical problems by jumping the atmosphere and other things) and also aid in military recon craft or cargo craft if you could pull it off.

This is all decades off though.

[Peregrin Toker]

Many UFO sightings are caused by secret military aircraft.

I love how you state that as if it's incontrovertible fact, you stupid bitch.

Well, back when the F-117 was still secret, there were a damned lot of reports of vaguely triangular UFOs... and incidentally, such reports reduced in number when the F-117 was unveiled.

Besides, this ignores the whole problem with the theory, which is that secret aircraft are not flown in the public eye. The F-117 flew only at night when it was black, and pretty much just in the desert around Tonopah.

A F-117 still has night signal lights like any other aircraft, right? So it's still detectable at night.

Moron, the fucking F-117 is a giant delta wing from below.

Not exactly - its wings appear more to be extraordinarily swept-back rather than true deltas, and it has a distinctive "duck tail" rear end not found on the reported mystery aircraft. (which, BTW, could also have been a F-111 with its wings swept fully back)

Prove it moron or shut up. You are making the claim, you are the one who must support it. We are under no obligation hear, you fucking are.

A disproportionate amount of UFO sightings are being made near Groom Lake AFB in Nevada, better known as Area 51 or "Dreamland"... and guess what? Groom Lake is where the USAF test prototype aircraft!

(I thought you knew this as a HAB member)

[Rogue 9]

Guess what? You need to post evidence along with the assertions or they are unsupported assertions!

(I thought you knew this as an SD.net member.)

[Vympel]

Dogfighting at that speed is absurd. You'd just break up, thankfully that's why no one wanted this to be a super fighter as the emphasis on fighter speed died years back given agility and stealth took the front seat.

Speed never died- it's just as important as ever. Without speed, you can't deny engagement, you can't impart maximum kinetic energy to your missiles (thereby maximising their range), you don't have the energy to maneuver fully in dogfight, etc. See the F-22- supercruise is a prime requirement. But no, we won't be seeing Mach 7 fighters, that's true.

[phongn]

Speed never died- it's just as important as ever. Without speed, you can't deny engagement, you can't impart maximum kinetic energy to your missiles (thereby maximising their range), you don't have the energy to maneuver fully in dogfight, etc. See the F-22- supercruise is a prime requirement. But no, we won't be seeing Mach 7 fighters, that's true.

I've heard that against up-and-coming air-defenses, you'll need both speed and stealth -- the F-15 has the former, the F/A-22 has the latter. The next project after the Raptor (UCAV, maybe?) will probably have both.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Dogfighting at that speed is absurd. You'd just break up, thankfully that's why no one wanted this to be a super fighter as the emphasis on fighter speed died years back given agility and stealth took the front seat.

Speed never died- it's just as important as ever. Without speed, you can't deny engagement, you can't impart maximum kinetic energy to your missiles (thereby maximising their range), you don't have the energy to maneuver fully in dogfight, etc. See the F-22- supercruise is a prime requirement. But no, we won't be seeing Mach 7 fighters, that's true.

I thought I mentioned supercruise in that post but I must've snipped it as I copied it off a similar thread elsewhere.

But yes, you're right, supercruise is a far more concrete concept, though we're not trying solely to make our fighters go as fast as the airframe allows as we have other factors to attend to. The likes of the F-104 days are long gone, they may as well have got an X-15 and strapped a few missiles to it (it'd be safer too given the T-tail of the former).

[Howedar]

Well, back when the F-117 was still secret, there were a damned lot of reports of vaguely triangular UFOs... and incidentally, such reports reduced in number when the F-117 was unveiled.

You've got a penchant for tossing claims around without supporting anything.

I suggest you change that.

A F-117 still has night signal lights like any other aircraft, right? So it's still detectable at night.

They ran black at the time.

Not exactly - its wings appear more to be extraordinarily swept-back rather than true deltas, and it has a distinctive "duck tail" rear end not found on the reported mystery aircraft. (which, BTW, could also have been a F-111 with its wings swept fully back)

You stupid bitch, how clearly do you think you can see the details when it's flying at even a few thousand feet? The F-117 will look like a delta from anything but extreme close range.

A disproportionate amount of UFO sightings are being made near Groom Lake AFB in Nevada, better known as Area 51 or "Dreamland"... and guess what? Groom Lake is where the USAF test prototype aircraft!

(I thought you knew this as a HAB member)

GIVE ME YOUR FUCKING EVIDENCE THAT THE USAF IS TESTING A MACH-7 AIRCRAFT AT GROOM LAKE OR ANYWHERE ELSE.

[Peregrin Toker]

Well, back when the F-117 was still secret, there were a damned lot of reports of vaguely triangular UFOs... and incidentally, such reports reduced in number when the F-117 was unveiled.

You've got a penchant for tossing claims around without supporting anything.

I suggest you change that.

From the book Fifty Years Of UFOS: From Distant Sightings To Close Encounters by John & Anne Spencer, page 144:

The question of the shape is intruing. The upsurge in triangle reports came at a time when the triangular Stealth aircraft is known to have been under test, and many sightings of triangular UFOs almost certainly have to be one of those planes. And the history of technology suggests that developments in one country will be mirrored by research in others, so it is no surprise that these shapes are reporterd elsewhere, too. We have already mentioned the Aurora, and there are certainly other top-secret aircraft in development. Sonic booms in the Los Angeles area have been recorded which indicate a plane flying at speeds of Mach 3 or Mach 4.

Emphasis mine.

GIVE ME YOUR FUCKING EVIDENCE THAT THE USAF IS TESTING A MACH-7 AIRCRAFT AT GROOM LAKE OR ANYWHERE ELSE.

I'm not sure about Mach 7 aircraft, but the previously mentioned sonic booms recorded indicate a speed of Mach 4. (of course, those could be the predecessors of the X-43)

As for evidence of Groom Lake AFB being testing place for prototype aircraft, I refer to Wikipedia's article on Groom Lake.

Groom Lake is not a conventional airbase, and front-line units are not normally deployed there. It appears, rather, to be used during the development, test and training phases for new aircraft. Once those aircraft have been accepted by the USAF, operation of that aircraft is generally shifted to a normal airforce base. Groom is reported, however, to be the permanent home for a small number of aircraft of Soviet design (obtained by various means). These are analysed and used for training purposes.

[Peregrin Toker]

Seems like I've finally won, eh?

[phongn]

It's only been a day -- and yesterday was 1 April! Don't be so quick to declare victory.

[Howedar]

From the book Fifty Years Of UFOS: From Distant Sightings To Close Encounters by John & Anne Spencer, page 144:

The question of the shape is intruing. The upsurge in triangle reports came at a time when the triangular Stealth aircraft is known to have been under test, and many sightings of triangular UFOs almost certainly have to be one of those planes. And the history of technology suggests that developments in one country will be mirrored by research in others, so it is no surprise that these shapes are reporterd elsewhere, too. We have already mentioned the Aurora, and there are certainly other top-secret aircraft in development. Sonic booms in the Los Angeles area have been recorded which indicate a plane flying at speeds of Mach 3 or Mach 4.

Evidence. Good boy.

However, there is no way to differentiate a sonic boom by the speed the aircraft is flying at. That is, certainly there's no way without sensative instruments that common people don't have. The government might have ways to tell, but I don't think you can tell anything from only one point. The only way you could tell is two sonic booms a certain time and distance apart, except you don't know that the same aircraft made them and it's very hard to time it precisely enough to get real data.

I'm not sure about Mach 7 aircraft, but the previously mentioned sonic booms recorded indicate a speed of Mach 4. (of course, those could be the predecessors of the X-43)

That is what I meant.

As for evidence of Groom Lake AFB being testing place for prototype aircraft, I refer to Wikipedia's article on Groom Lake.

Nice way of evading the point. I asked for evidence that they are testing these high speed aircraft you claim they have, not testing whatever else it is.

Everybody and their dog knows that secret aircraft are tested (or were tested) at Groom Lake. That doesn't mean you've provided a SHRED of evidence for this Mach-4 mother you claim the USAF has.

[Peregrin Toker]

However, there is no way to differentiate a sonic boom by the speed the aircraft is flying at. That is, certainly there's no way without sensative instruments that common people don't have.

I recall seeing a Discovery Channel program called "The Billion-Dollar Secret" about Area 51 where we saw a civilian who owned such instruments.

Everybody and their dog knows that secret aircraft are tested (or were tested) at Groom Lake. That doesn't mean you've provided a SHRED of evidence for this Mach-4 mother you claim the USAF has.

All I have now is probably a few unclear photographs which may be hoaxes, anonymous reports from people claiming to be retired Air Force officers and some hearsay.

We probably won't have definitive evidence until when the Aurora's all-but-completely-obsolete, its successor's already in the works and the USAF decide to unveil it for the public. There's also the rumoured global mind-control network which the US government supposedly is in possession of and activated in March of 2004. If such a mind control network exists and if it works at all, they might be using it to keep the Aurora under further wraps. On the other hand, mind control isn't guaranteed to work with today's technology - so I suppose this argument's invalid too.

However, now we at least know that the US aircraft industry can produce vehicles as fast as the Aurora's supposed to be.

[Howedar]

I recall seeing a Discovery Channel program called "The Billion-Dollar Secret" about Area 51 where we saw a civilian who owned such instruments.

I very much doubt that. Discovery isn't exactly the top-noch support some make it out to be either, there is definately an element of sensationalism.

All I have now is probably a few unclear photographs which may be hoaxes, anonymous reports from people claiming to be retired Air Force officers and some hearsay.

So you've got jack shit. Thank you.

We probably won't have definitive evidence until when the Aurora's all-but-completely-obsolete, its successor's already in the works and the USAF decide to unveil it for the public. There's also the rumoured global mind-control network which the US government supposedly is in possession of and activated in March of 2004. If such a mind control network exists and if it works at all, they might be using it to keep the Aurora under further wraps. On the other hand, mind control isn't guaranteed to work with today's technology - so I suppose this argument's invalid too.

I've got to assume this part is a joke.

However, now we at least know that the US aircraft industry can produce vehicles as fast as the Aurora's supposed to be.

No more than we did thirty years ago when we built the X-15. Hyper-X is little more than an air-breathing missile. It is a large technical achievement, but it is by no means proof that the US aerospace industry is up to building a Mach 4-plus recon aircraft.

[Peregrin Toker]

We probably won't have definitive evidence until when the Aurora's all-but-completely-obsolete, its successor's already in the works and the USAF decide to unveil it for the public. There's also the rumoured global mind-control network which the US government supposedly is in possession of and activated in March of 2004. If such a mind control network exists and if it works at all, they might be using it to keep the Aurora under further wraps. On the other hand, mind control isn't guaranteed to work with today's technology - so I suppose this argument's invalid too.

I've got to assume this part is a joke.

Well, I once stumbled across this article. Unlikely as it is, it is better to be paranoid than it is to be ignorant. If this is true - we might not actually be communicating with each other. I might be locked away in a prison for knowing too much but thinking that I'm living a normal life and communicating with you, while I in fact am completely isolated from the rest of the world. Or if I'm really fortunate, I might in fact just be too strong-willed to succumb to the mind-control network - though I still have fears that this is unlikely. In fact, it could be impossible that you are reading what I'm writing at all - if I'm actually writing anything at all on a computer, and not doing what the gov't of the USA wants me to.

[Howedar]

Unlikely as it is, it is better to be paranoid than it is to be ignorant.

I prefer to look at it this way: It's better to be reasonable than to be a fucking donkey-licking conspiracy-theorist-ball-sucking retard.

If this is true - we might not actually be communicating with each other. I might be locked away in a prison for knowing too much but thinking that I'm living a normal life and communicating with you, while I in fact am completely isolated from the rest of the world. Or if I'm really fortunate, I might in fact just be too strong-willed to succumb to the mind-control network - though I still have fears that this is unlikely. In fact, it could be impossible that you are reading what I'm writing at all - if I'm actually writing anything at all on a computer, and not doing what the gov't of the USA wants me to.

Ah, but what if the US government wants you to think that?

Stupid sophist fuck.

[Peregrin Toker]

I prefer to look at it this way: It's better to be reasonable than to be a fucking donkey-licking conspiracy-theorist-ball-sucking retard.

I must admit that I don't believe 100% in the global mind-control network, but I nonetheless still consider the possibility.

In fact, with the whole War On Terror being used to justify infringement upon certain civil rights, it shouldn't surprise me if they're considering this.

Ah, but what if the US government wants you to think that?

You kinda have a point. I'm not particularly healthy or strong-willed... so if the mind-control network is so strong... how can I believe it? Or am they, in fact, barring me from control in order to make it easier to ridicule those who have caught a clue on the truth?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

You have now dropped from stupidity about a nonexistant military project to paranoid delusions about a mind control network, with your only source being a cospiracy theory website with no sources and no proof.


What's next? Perhaps you'll use the Iraqi Information Minister's testimonies to prove American forces were slaughtered in Iraq and everything we've heard for a year has been propaganda?

Hell, their page on the F-22 claims Mach 3 capability! And that's the sane part (they claim there's an anti-gravity fighter disc)

[Howedar]

LOL! That is a great page.

[Howedar]

AHAHAHAHA!!! Element 115 used for antigravity vehicles



Honestly, if Mr. Toker keeps going off this page we're going to be approaching VI-level stupidity.

[MKSheppard]

AHAHAHAHA!!! Element 115 used for antigravity vehicles

Hey, Elerium-115! Where's my god damn Avengers?