UK considers ritual slaughter ban

The Third Man · Post by **The Third Man** » 2004-04-01 04:02am

Since we now appear to be the "Net's foremost shrine to Islam"

...

This would outlaw halal and kosher meat as prescribed by Judaism and Islam respectively.

BBC story

I'd be interested to know what the anti-PETA people here make of this?

And isn't the timing a little unfortunate, given the disaffection felt in the UK Muslim population at recent headlines like "Islamic bomb plot foiled", and the perception that they are "under assault" from the non-muslim population and government.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2004-04-01 05:26am

Religious exeptions for secular laws are dumb, so I think that this is good.

What does PETA have to do with this?

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2004-04-01 05:52am

Kosher is to let the animal bleed to death. Morden way of putting a bullet in the head of the animal is a lot less painful.

I think that halal is the same.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-04-01 09:49am

Faram wrote:Kosher is to let the animal bleed to death. Morden way of putting a bullet in the head of the animal is a lot less painful.

I think that halal is the same.

Kosher is supposed to be as painless as possible. Besides, have you ever taken a look at a kosher butcherer and at a regular one?

Ubiquitous · Post by **Ubiquitous** » 2004-04-01 10:21am

Seems good to me. I'm all for as quick a death as possible for these already degraded animals.

The Third Man · Post by **The Third Man** » 2004-04-01 10:38am

Xenophobe3691 wrote: Kosher is supposed to be as painless as possible.

The important thing to note is that the official government advisors on these matters have in this case advised that the ritual method is indeed less humane than the alternative. This could potentially bring the government into direct confrontation with the religions in question. Can a "middle way" be found? Is the government unwise to even talk about this issue in the current climate re Islam in Britain?

Sir Sirius wrote: What does PETA have to do with this?

I'm interested in the anti-PETA view, often expressed around here. More specifically, does an acceptable level of cruelty towards animals extend as far as tolerating a ritual (and more traumatic) death in deference to religious sensibilities?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-04-01 10:54am

Actually modern is blunt force trauma to the skull.

the Kosor & Halva way is to hoist the animal up very fast, and decapitate it, the shock of bloodloss kills the brain several seconds before the heart stops beating.

The Third Man · Post by **The Third Man** » 2004-04-01 11:07am

The article linked to has changed since I posted - presumably to reflect the outcome of the decision which has been made today.

And that Tony Blair (for surely it must have been him) is one slippery character, he's managed to pull a middle way out of this seemingly black and white issue. I'm impressed!

One compromise which has been suggested involves stunning animals immediately after cutting the throat

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-04-01 01:59pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Actually modern is blunt force trauma to the skull.

the Kosor & Halva way is to hoist the animal up very fast, and decapitate it, the shock of bloodloss kills the brain several seconds before the heart stops beating.

Correct, and Kosher law is also extremely stringent on the rules governing the knife used as well, you have to sharpen it so well you can run your finger over it and not worry about a single nick in the blade that'll catch your skin.

Embracer Of Darkness · Post by **Embracer Of Darkness** » 2004-04-01 02:08pm

I'm not Jewish or Islamic, but Halal meat is the only meat I will eat anymore. When animals are killed according to Halal tradition, the three main blood vessels in the throat are cut at the same time and a blessing is recited, which I think is much more respectable way than shoving the animal on a conveyor belt and hitting it in the head with a hammer (which sometimes does not kill the anima).

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-04-01 02:18pm

Embracer Of Darkness wrote:I'm not Jewish or Islamic, but Halal meat is the only meat I will eat anymore. When animals are killed according to Halal tradition, the three main blood vessels in the throat are cut at the same time and a blessing is recited, which I think is much more respectable way than shoving the animal on a conveyor belt and hitting it in the head with a hammer (which sometimes does not kill the anima).

That's basically a clone of the laws of Kashrut, just look at the laws regarding how the meat is treated after the slaughter...