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I don't think anyone had time to get out their stop watch before the battle was all over. I mean the F-15 guys were just shooting them down like flies and the F-16 guys had nothing by the time they got up there.Rogue 9 wrote:Didn't the Iraqis try to challenge us in the first Gulf War? For about five minutes?
I assume this is to me, but what do you think the Rafale is anyway?Howedar wrote:Oh hell no it wouldn't. Haven't you guys learned your lesson yet? YOU DO NOT CONVERT A LAND AIRCRAFT FOR CARRIER OPS. It will result in Bad Things (TM).
Yeah, then they all turned tail and ran to Iran. Although an Iraqi MiG-25P blew an F/A-18C out of the sky with an R-40 shot (presumably R-40T, the IR homer would've meant little warning)- that was Scott Speicher's aircraft.Rogue 9 wrote:Didn't the Iraqis try to challenge us in the first Gulf War? For about five minutes?
I assume the MiG died a horrible death less than thirty seconds later at the hands of a pissed off wingman? Its been a looooong time since I've followed up on that...Vympel wrote:Yeah, then they all turned tail and ran to Iran. Although an Iraqi MiG-25P blew an F/A-18C out of the sky with an R-40 shot (presumably R-40T, the IR homer would've meant little warning)- that was Scott Speicher's aircraft.Rogue 9 wrote:Didn't the Iraqis try to challenge us in the first Gulf War? For about five minutes?
Nope- like most MiG-25s in hostile air environments, it got away clean- simply too damn fast.Rogue 9 wrote: I assume the MiG died a horrible death less than thirty seconds later at the hands of a pissed off wingman? Its been a looooong time since I've followed up on that...
Iirc the F-16s pilots like the F-14, F/A-18s, F-4, and AV-6s pilots were ordered not to shoot any Iraqi aircraft and let the F-15 pilots go after them.Crown wrote:I don't think anyone had time to get out their stop watch before the battle was all over. I mean the F-15 guys were just shooting them down like flies and the F-16 guys had nothing by the time they got up there.Rogue 9 wrote:Didn't the Iraqis try to challenge us in the first Gulf War? For about five minutes?
Did any MiG-25 got shot down or did they lucky and all made to Iran? Not counting those still on the ground.Vympel wrote:Nope- like most MiG-25s in hostile air environments, it got away clean- simply too damn fast.Rogue 9 wrote: I assume the MiG died a horrible death less than thirty seconds later at the hands of a pissed off wingman? Its been a looooong time since I've followed up on that...
Meh. Stupid Russians and their stupid interceptor design philosophy... I don't know for sure, but if they're really determined they can turn and burn at about Mach 2.5, IIRC. Hard enough to catch them in a missile envelope when they've actually closed to fight you. When they're running away, if you're not between them and where they're going you'll never get them.Rubberanvil wrote:Did any MiG-25 got shot down or did they lucky and all made to Iran? Not counting those still on the ground.Vympel wrote:Nope- like most MiG-25s in hostile air environments, it got away clean- simply too damn fast.Rogue 9 wrote: I assume the MiG died a horrible death less than thirty seconds later at the hands of a pissed off wingman? Its been a looooong time since I've followed up on that...
They won't be doing much turning, but the MiG-25P does Mach 2.5+ quite easily- closer to Mach 2.8. Beyond that, you wreck the engines (which happened once, and it was tracked by American radar at the time, leading them to think the MiG-25 was operationally capable of Mach 3+ flight. The pilot somehow nursed the aircraft back to base).Meh. Stupid Russians and their stupid interceptor design philosophy... I don't know for sure, but if they're really determined they can turn and burn at about Mach 2.5, IIRC. Hard enough to catch them in a missile envelope when they've actually closed to fight you. When they're running away, if you're not between them and where they're going you'll never get them.
An aircraft designed with both operational conditions in mind, like the F-4 Phantom. The EF-2000 is already frozen and in production. If you try to change it to a carrier aircraft, there will be a marked tendancy to change as little as possible, which would cause major problems in fleet service.Crown wrote:I assume this is to me, but what do you think the Rafale is anyway?Howedar wrote:Oh hell no it wouldn't. Haven't you guys learned your lesson yet? YOU DO NOT CONVERT A LAND AIRCRAFT FOR CARRIER OPS. It will result in Bad Things (TM).
I don't know about the Gulf War, but on December 27, 1992, an Iraqi MiG-25PD violated the southern No Fly zone and was shot down by an AMRAAM missile fired from an F-16C. This was the first actual kill scored by an AMRAAM, which wasn't in service during the Gulf War.Rubberanvil wrote:Did any MiG-25 got shot down or did they lucky and all made to Iran? Not counting those still on the ground.
I know. Its a slang reference, has to do with the jet fans, turbines, and the afterburners, not making turns.Rubberanvil wrote:Iirc a MiG-25 can't really make any turns while doing mach 2.5.Rogue 9 wrote: Meh. Stupid Russians and their stupid interceptor design philosophy... I don't know for sure, but if they're really determined they can turn and burn at about Mach 2.5, IIRC.
Would the Iraqi 25's even have threat receivers capable of detecting an AMRAAM?Ma Deuce wrote:I don't know about the Gulf War, but on December 27, 1992, an Iraqi MiG-25PD violated the southern No Fly zone and was shot down by an AMRAAM missile fired from an F-16C. This was the first actual kill scored by an AMRAAM, which wasn't in service during the Gulf War.Rubberanvil wrote:Did any MiG-25 got shot down or did they lucky and all made to Iran? Not counting those still on the ground.
Its active radar. I'd say probably yes.Chris OFarrell wrote:Would the Iraqi 25's even have threat receivers capable of detecting an AMRAAM?Ma Deuce wrote:I don't know about the Gulf War, but on December 27, 1992, an Iraqi MiG-25PD violated the southern No Fly zone and was shot down by an AMRAAM missile fired from an F-16C. This was the first actual kill scored by an AMRAAM, which wasn't in service during the Gulf War.Rubberanvil wrote:Did any MiG-25 got shot down or did they lucky and all made to Iran? Not counting those still on the ground.
I think we got a couple, it should be noted that the one that brought down the F/A-18 had perviouslly been chased around the sky by another F/A-18 who could have shot it down. However the E-3 controlling the area couldn't pick it out for some reason and refused permission to shoot.Rubberanvil wrote:Did any MiG-25 got shot down or did they lucky and all made to Iran? Not counting those still on the ground.
The answer to this is obvious; we never should have cancelled the F-12.Sea Skimmer wrote:We could never catch one, even F-14's firing AIM-54's failed.
As I recall, the 2 Iraqi MiG-25s were warned by radio to leave the No Fly zone, but instead turned toward the F-16s, which were subsequently authorized to engage. After the lead MiG was downed, the other fled. So it was a head-on kill.Vympel wrote:I wonder what position that F-16C was in when it killed that MiG-25 with an AMRAAM.
That explains the kill quite well.Ma Deuce wrote:As I recall, the 2 Iraqi MiG-25s were warned by radio to leave the No Fly zone, but instead turned toward the F-16s, which were subsequently authorized to engage. After the lead MiG was downed, the other fled. So it was a head-on kill.
The STOVL version has weight problems, the first flight of the true 'F-35' (or whatever they'll call it) has been pushed back a year to 2006, and increased costs ( have led to talk of a cut in USN/USMC joint procurement from the planned 1,089 aircraft to 680 aircraft (the reduction of 409 aircraft would be split evenly between the two).PainRack wrote:Back to the topic at hand, what problems has the F-35 design programe run into recently?
