USA Hiring Mercs For Iraq Duty

[Aaron]

I don't know how reliable the source is but with the money that their spending they could easily hire two more soldiers for every merc.

[Joe]

Someone hasn't been reading their Machiavelli.

[Mr Bean]

$4000 a month is pretty cheap considering your not paying them for food, clothing, shelter.


Also you can fire these people, they are temporaray soliders not perminate ones which you kinda have to have for four years even if the job only lasts one

[Aaron]

Someone hasn't been reading their Machiavelli.

What does Machiavelli have to say about mercs?

Also you can fire these people, they are temporaray soliders not perminate ones which you kinda have to have for four years even if the job only lasts one

With all the operations that the US military are involved in right now, I would think that they would expand the military to prevent burnout. Especially the Army and Marines,as they seem to be doing the majority of the work.

[SirNitram]

I'm starting to wonder if I should pull out a history book and start comparing the Roman Empire and America...

[Joe]

What does Machiavelli have to say about mercs?

He hates them with such a passion that one wonders if a merc pissed in his breakfast the morning he wrote his chapter on mercenaries in The Prince.

I say, therefore, that the arms with which a prince defends his state are either his own, or they are mercenaries, auxiliaries, or mixed. Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe; for they are disunited, ambitious and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies; they have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy. The fact is, they have no other attraction or reason for keeping the field than a trifle of stipend, which is not sufficient to make them willing to die for you. They are ready enough to be your soldiers whilst you do not make war, but if war comes they take themselves off or run from the foe; which I should have little trouble to prove, for the ruin of Italy has been caused by nothing else than by resting all her hopes for many years on mercenaries, and although they formerly made some display and appeared valiant amongst themselves, yet when the foreigners came they showed what they were. Thus it was that Charles, King of France, was allowed to seize Italy with chalk in hand;* and he who told us that our sins were the cause of it told the truth, but they were not the sins he imagined, but those which I have related. And as they were the sins of princes, it is the princes who have also suffered the penalty.

[Aaron]

So are you saying that the USA may have some trouble with their mercs down the road?

[SirNitram]

So are you saying that the USA may have some trouble with their mercs down the road?

If by 'may' you mean 'almost definately will via historical precedent', and by 'some' you mean 'The fuckers run off', prolly. Mercenaries aren't reliable is the point. They tend to bugger off the instant it looks like the cost-risk benefits getting bad.

[Joe]

So are you saying that the USA may have some trouble with their mercs down the road?

Well, here, it looks like they being used for some fairly benign, low-intensity security work, not for intensive combat. So it may work, I don't know.

[Aaron]

So are you saying that the USA may have some trouble with their mercs down the road?

If by 'may' you mean 'almost definately will via historical precedent', and by 'some' you mean 'The fuckers run off', prolly. Mercenaries aren't reliable is the point. They tend to bugger off the instant it looks like the cost-risk benefits getting bad.

I don't know about that. They have proven effective in Africa recently. I can't remember what country it was, might be the Central African Republic that hired them a few years ago to put down a rebellion. And they did so in 18 weeks. The Rodesian SAS was also primaraily a mercenary outfit and they were very efective as well.

Are there any recent examples of mercs cutting and running that we can examine?

[Aaron]

A little more research turned up this which indicates that it was Angolia and Serria Leone that used them to put down rebels.

[Joe]

In any case, today's mercs are considerably different from the mercs of Machiavelli's time, so maybe the comparison isn't so good.

[Aaron]

In any case, today's mercs are considerably different from the mercs of Machiavelli's time, so maybe the comparison isn't so good.

I'd say thats accurate. Everything that I've just read indicates that modern mercs are very much corporate entities and it would be hard to find work if you just shafted your employer.

[RedImperator]

They might be better than Renaissance era mercenaries, but they're still soldiers who fight for money, not their country, and they can't be made to fight if they don't want to. Rent-a-cops are for chasing shoplifters at the mall, not securing an occupied country.

[Aaron]

They might be better than Renaissance era mercenaries, but they're still soldiers who fight for money, not their country, and they can't be made to fight if they don't want to. Rent-a-cops are for chasing shoplifters at the mall, not securing an occupied country.

Good point. And a country with a military the size of the USA shouldn't need to employ mercs. And they probably wouldn't be if Rumsfeld would agree to increase the amount of troops in Iraq.

[HemlockGrey]

Note that Reinassance-era Italian mercenaries were very much corporate entities as well. However, one of the problems with them in that period was that basically all the Italian states used them; they had no standing, professional armies to turn to.

However, the use of mercenaries is still troubling. I'd rather we simply eschewed that options all together and re-institute the troop benefits the Adminstration slashed.

[Mr Bean]

Keep in mind a goodly presentage(Read most) of these Mercs are former USAF, USMC, NAVY and Army folks who after getting out, decided to go back into the business of fighting for much higher paychecks and good benfits to boot, nearly all of the mercs currantly employed in Iraq are from US based companys who use US citizins, such as the "contractors" who were recently killed and had their bodies so publicly paraded around(It appears the attack came after somone claimed they were with Mossad, the Israili Intel branch)

[Aaron]

Keep in mind a goodly presentage(Read most) of these Mercs are former USAF, USMC, NAVY and Army folks who after getting out, decided to go back into the business of fighting for much higher paychecks and good benfits to boot, nearly all of the mercs currantly employed in Iraq are from US based companys who use US citizins, such as the "contractors" who were recently killed and had their bodies so publicly paraded around(It appears the attack came after somone claimed they were with Mossad, the Israili Intel branch)

It seems that about 60 of them are from Chile which probably means that they are running out of qualified US citizensfor the job.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Machiavelli said: "Money cannot always get you good soldiers, but good soldiers can always get you money."

[CJvR]

LOL!

Some merc seem to have pissed off old Mach.

But I think he is wrong, mercenaries can work quite well under certain conditions:

1. They get payed. The concept that a days work entitled you to get payed was a notion Gods annoited princes had big problems with.

2. They have a resonable chance of living to spend their pay. As long as mercenaries are winning there is little problem but never ask them to do a heroic stand to the last man - mercs have more sence than that.

3. Use them only as a complement to your regular army. If mercenaries are your only military then you have a very serious problem indeed.


Im not sure where to draw the line between civilian private security and military mercenaries. Under an occupation like Iraq even security members will do duties simillar to those of a regular army in defending infrastructure and maintaining order.

[Sea Skimmer]

If by 'may' you mean 'almost definately will via historical precedent', and by 'some' you mean 'The fuckers run off', prolly. Mercenaries aren't reliable is the point. They tend to bugger off the instant it looks like the cost-risk benefits getting bad.

Which is why you don't use them for some jobs. However this isn't the only place the US has used mercenaries, they worked out very well in Indochina and make up a large part of US efforts in Colombia, not to mention all the multi billion dollar mcoroperations which find them to work just fine guarding mines in such stable areas as the congo and Angola.

[Sokar]

One of the keys to getting the most bang for your buck with a mercenary force is how well you set your goals and expectations for these particular troops. You have to have a clear objective for them to fulfill otherwise they don't get their full pay. Have a bunker line that needs eliminating, or a firebase to defend and you would rather not waste Line units on, mercenaries will do the trick in almost every case, as long as the price is worth the risk. Just paying them to 'fight' for you is a sure guarantee that when the action gets too hot, they scatter like startled chickens.

Merc's have their place in military operations, just as long as you don't use them to the exclusion of national troops.

[Vympel]

$4000 a month is pretty cheap considering your not paying them for food, clothing, shelter.

Fucking A. Heck, in Jagged Alliance 2 Igor Dolvich alone is hitting me up for $5,500 a day.

Oops, this isn't Gaming & Computers.

[MarkIX]

$4000 a month is pretty cheap considering your not paying them for food, clothing, shelter.

Fucking A. Heck, in Jagged Alliance 2 Igor Dolvich alone is hitting me up for $5,500 a day.

Oops, this isn't Gaming & Computers.

Whatever you do don't hire GUS that would be like getting condotieri

[Joe]

Score one against Machiavelli