Does anyone else think that this is bullshit?

[Kamakazie Sith]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/04/03/child ... index.html

Insane or sane I don't see any reason not to punish someone to the full extent of the law. Not to mention, I find her "excuse" very questionable even with the support of Psychiatrists that she did not know right from wrong at the time.

[Aaron]

I was undecided whether it was BS that she got off, but theres a line in the article that states that she can be commited to a maximum security mental hospital. So now I think it's ok that she got off, as she'll most likely spend a great deal of time at that institution which is what she needs.

[Admiral Valdemar]

That's truly barbaric. And how did she evade a prison term?

[Ghost Rider]

Fucking A....it's sick and twisted case, that ends on a very sour note.

Sorry reading the stories that led up this verdict still makes me feel ill about the whole thing and how the argument is this.

Dietz said Laney wasn't thinking about state law when she killed the boys, but acknowledged that she probably knew her act was illegal at the time

[RedImperator]

If she was truly insane, then she can't be held responsible for her actions by definition. It's not her fault her brain is broken.

[Joe]

Come on Texas, you've got the fucking death penalty! Fry the fucking cunt!

What a horrible way to die, too. It's amazing that the baby survived.

[fgalkin]

Actually, if a mental institution is as bad as its portrayed in movies, I'd take prison over it any day.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Kamakazie Sith]

If she was truly insane, then she can't be held responsible for her actions by definition. It's not her fault her brain is broken.

Could be her fault....

Say if she did lots of drugs when she was younger....

[Aaron]

Actually, if a mental institution is as bad as its portrayed in movies, I'd take prison over it any day.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

My mother worked at a mental institution when she went through nursing school. The conditions that she described make prison seem pleasant. Things have probably changed in the last 20 years, but at least in prison the inmates would be partially predictable.

[haas mark]

Actually, if a mental institution is as bad as its portrayed in movies, I'd take prison over it any day.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Mental hospitals today are cakewalks.

Also, this is Texas we're talking about. Of course she got out of it. Everything's big in Texas, including legal loopholes.

[18-Till-I-Die]

If she was truly insane, then she can't be held responsible for her actions by definition. It's not her fault her brain is broken.

I'm going to have to call bullshit on that.

Psychotics and sociopaths cry nutjob everytime they slaughter an entire family, like this tiwsted shit here, and then you and me and every oother not insane person has to pay their bills for the rest of their days. Meanwhile...those chidren are dead, and the woman who killed them isnt.

I'm wholy in favor of teh death penalty for murder, unless it's in self-defense of course. She stoned her kids to death, and she should fry. And i dont care how insane she is.

I'm sorry, that's very brutal of me, but i dont care.

[Crayz9000]

It's fucktard cunts like that keep giving homeschooling a bad name... of course, homeschooling only works in the first place if the parents are competent.

What is it with this "insanity" excuse, anyway? I'd venture as far as to say that anybody who murders another human in cold blood is insane, so why bother with the insanity plea?

[haas mark]

If she was truly insane, then she can't be held responsible for her actions by definition. It's not her fault her brain is broken.

I'm going to have to call bullshit on that.

Psychotics and sociopaths cry nutjob

Would they be called psychotics and sociopaths if they weren't broken in the head?

everytime they slaughter an entire family, like this tiwsted shit here, and then you and me and every oother not insane person has to pay their bills for the rest of their days. Meanwhile...those chidren are dead, and the woman who killed them isnt.

And this shows how they know right from wrong while insane how..?

I'm sorry, that's very brutal of me, but i dont care.

Brutal, yes. Point-making, no.

[18-Till-I-Die]

What is it with this "insanity" excuse, anyway? I'd venture as far as to say that anybody who murders another human in cold blood is insane, so why bother with the insanity plea?

Truer words were never spoken.

[haas mark]

What is it with this "insanity" excuse, anyway? I'd venture as far as to say that anybody who murders another human in cold blood is insane, so why bother with the insanity plea?

I would agree with you if it weren't such a grey area. There are different degrees of insanity and sanity, of course. This is why we have medications and therapy to help people these days.

[18-Till-I-Die]

How about anyone who comits murder, insane or not, has to be tried and convicted as normal. No grey area there. It treats everyone as equals--they get the exact same chance in a court you or i would, and vice versa, and no cop outs other than, perhaps, a plea bargan.

I'd say that is far more fair and even handed than the current system.

[haas mark]

How about anyone who comits murder, insane or not, has to be tried and convicted as normal.

Why? If they're insane, they are by definition abnormal.

No grey area there. It treats everyone as equals--they get the exact same chance in a court you or i would, and vice versa, and no cop outs other than, perhaps, a plea bargan.

Granted, but it doesn't answer why an insane person should be treated the same as sane. The two are mutually exclusive. The jury would have to be made up of insaniacs, because the jury is to be made of one's peers. And since we can't have a jury of insane people, then we can't have a fair trial.

I'd say that is far more fair and even handed than the current system.

See above.

[Crayz9000]

Why? If they're insane, they are by definition abnormal.

Murderers are abnormal, right?

You're right, it is a gray area -- there are people who were otherwise normal but went off the deep end for one reason or another, and sometimes they can be brought back. Sometimes they can't. The problem is determining if it's possible...

My suggestion mainly applied to murders at any rate, because that's really the deepest part of the deep end.

[RedImperator]

What is it with this "insanity" excuse, anyway? I'd venture as far as to say that anybody who murders another human in cold blood is insane, so why bother with the insanity plea?

That's ignoring the hundreds of people every year who commit murder for business reasons, or to silence a witness, or out of revenge. You don't have to be insane to commit premediated murder, you just have to value something else more than the life of another human being and expect to get away with it (or not care if you get caught).

Of course, most murders are crimes of passion, not premediated. And, wouldn't you know it, we don't execute people who commit murder because their emotions get the best of them, so why would we execute those who can't control their actions at all or aren't aware they're wrong?

Could be her fault....

Say if she did lots of drugs when she was younger....

There are no drugs that I know of that would make someone insane, even with long term heavy use. At least none that anyone would want to consume recreationally. And at any rate, even if there were, she can only be held responsible for degrading her brain to the point she was insane, not for actions committed while insane.

I'm going to have to call bullshit on that.

Extra! Extra! Noted psychiatrist and expert on criminal psychology 18-Till-I-Die makes another completely unsupported statement! Film at 11.

Psychotics and sociopaths cry nutjob everytime they slaughter an entire family, like this tiwsted shit here, and then you and me and every oother not insane person has to pay their bills for the rest of their days.

Insanity pleas are rarely used because they rarely work. True criminal insanity is rare and it's up to the defendant to prove he actually is insane. In this case, five separate doctors, including two working for the prosecution, came to the same conclusion. The woman is sick and needs to be off the streets for however long it takes to fix her brain (which probably amounts to a life sentence in her case), but she's not responsible for her own actions.

As for paying their bills, that's just tough. You reap the benefits of living in a comfortable modern society, you pay your dues. I'm sick to damn death of hearing "I shouldn't have to pay for it" as a justification for acting inhumanely.

Meanwhile...those chidren are dead, and the woman who killed them isnt.

A fact I'm completely aware of, and one that has no bearing on whether or not she's actually insane. The fact your bloodlust hasn't been satisfied is not grounds for execution.

I'm wholy in favor of teh death penalty for murder, unless it's in self-defense of course.

As am I, in limited situations. Situations in which the perpetrator's brain is so messed up she could not tell right from wrong aren't among them.

She stoned her kids to death, and she should fry. And i dont care how insane she is.

She's a danger to society and needs to be isolated immediately. But if she's truly insane, she's no more responsible for her actions than she would be if she were a puppet on strings. That's the definition of insanity, and you can't execute people for actions for which they're not responsible, no matter how heinous.

[haas mark]

Why? If they're insane, they are by definition abnormal.

Murderers are abnormal, right?

Of course...

You're right, it is a gray area -- there are people who were otherwise normal but went off the deep end for one reason or another, and sometimes they can be brought back. Sometimes they can't. The problem is determining if it's possible...

Which was exactly the point I was trying to make. 18TID is trying to say that you are responsible for all your actions, whether sane or not.

[Aaron]

The bottom line is that this woman is going to spend probably the rest of her life in an institution for the criminaly insane. That should be enough to satisfy those of us who are screaming for blood.

[aerius]

Well, I can't say that I'm happy with the decision but as long as she stays in the rubber room 'till she's completely cured I can live with it. The words "religious nutjob" were the first things to come to mind after I read the article, and I suppose it was proper to put her in psychoward with the rest of the whack-a-loons. I very much doubt she can be cured or treated, so effectively she'll end up with a life sentence. I don't know what to think really, if she gets out in 5 years and kills again then I'd be very tempted to just say the hell with it and hang her despite her past history insanity.

[18-Till-I-Die]

That's ignoring the hundreds of people every year who commit murder for business reasons, or to silence a witness, or out of revenge. You don't have to be insane to commit premediated murder, you just have to value something else more than the life of another human being and expect to get away with it (or not care if you get caught).

Of course, most murders are crimes of passion, not premediated. And, wouldn't you know it, we don't execute people who commit murder because their emotions get the best of them, so why would we execute those who can't control their actions at all or aren't aware they're wrong?

<snip>

There are no drugs that I know of that would make someone insane, even with long term heavy use. At least none that anyone would want to consume recreationally. And at any rate, even if there were, she can only be held responsible for degrading her brain to the point she was insane, not for actions committed while insane.

<snip>

Extra! Extra! Noted psychiatrist and expert on criminal psychology 18-Till-I-Die makes another completely unsupported statement! Film at 11.

<snip>

Insanity pleas are rarely used because they rarely work. True criminal insanity is rare and it's up to the defendant to prove he actually is insane. In this case, five separate doctors, including two working for the prosecution, came to the same conclusion. The woman is sick and needs to be off the streets for however long it takes to fix her brain (which probably amounts to a life sentence in her case), but she's not responsible for her own actions.

As for paying their bills, that's just tough. You reap the benefits of living in a comfortable modern society, you pay your dues. I'm sick to damn death of hearing "I shouldn't have to pay for it" as a justification for acting inhumanely.

<snip>

A fact I'm completely aware of, and one that has no bearing on whether or not she's actually insane. The fact your bloodlust hasn't been satisfied is not grounds for execution.


<snip>

As am I, in limited situations. Situations in which the perpetrator's brain is so messed up she could not tell right from wrong aren't among them.

<snp..last one...>

She's a danger to society and needs to be isolated immediately. But if she's truly insane, she's no more responsible for her actions than she would be if she were a puppet on strings. That's the definition of insanity, and you can't execute people for actions for which they're not responsible, no matter how heinous.

Very elequent. I always love how when ever this kind of thing comes up, you wax poetic about how sociopaths have rights too. How they're soooo 'sick', and we, as a civilized people, have to nurse them back to health after they murder someone or rape children or beat people to death with rocks. They have to be coddled and nursed, like little murderous puppies. And anyone who is unsympathetic to sociopathic killers is inhumane right?

Please.

I have no sympathy for this woman. Not one tiny bit. If she gets struck by lightning and killed tomorrow i wouldnt even bat an eye. You can coddle her, i say fuck her.

While i usually dont quote cartoons:

I'll be on the veranda, since you're already on he cross.

[RedImperator]

Very elequent. I always love how when ever this kind of thing comes up, you wax poetic about how sociopaths have rights too. How they're soooo 'sick', and we, as a civilized people, have to nurse them back to health after they murder someone or rape children or beat people to death with rocks.

That's nice. I always love how you never manage to refute any of my points. I was going to snip all the parts where you substitute an appeal to emotion for a rebuttal, but then I wouldn't have had any post left to which I could respond. You don't even bother knocking down the strawmen you set up.

They have to be coddled and nursed, like little murderous puppies. And anyone who is unsympathetic to sociopathic killers is inhumane right?

Strawman distortion of my arguments, and you don't even provide a rebuttal to that. I'd refute your counter-argument, but you haven't actually made one yet.

Please.

I have no sympathy for this woman. Not one tiny bit. If she gets struck by lightning and killed tomorrow i wouldnt even bat an eye. You can coddle her, i say fuck her.

And I'm the one waxing poetic here, am I? Demonstrate how your feelings have any bearing on the issue at hand, and I'll be sure to give a rat's ass.

While i usually dont quote cartoons:

I'll be on the veranda, since you're already on he cross.

While I'm up there, you can feel free to polish my knob.

[MarkIX]

18TID
If you were given a gun would you shoot her?