What's everyone's beef agains BattleTech?

[RayCav of ASVS]

Well?

[Kuja]

I personally have no beef against B-Tech. I like the MW games. However, in my arguments, I consistantly find that mobile suits could mop the floor with battlemechs. I must admit, however, that I become irritated when B-tech fans slowly hijack a thread by arguing about weps particulars while Gundam fans slowly lose interst.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I personally have no beef against B-Tech. I like the MW games. However, in my arguments, I consistantly find that mobile suits could mop the floor with battlemechs. I must admit, however, that I become irritated when B-tech fans slowly hijack a thread by arguing about weps particulars while Gundam fans slowly lose interst.

You kinda begin to resent BT after you've seen this happen at several Gundam boards. Virtually every BT vs Gundam thread I've seen always ended up with the BTs hijacking it to discuss and drone about BT stats, while the Gundam fans just leave.

Also, I personally find most BTs to be really ugly. Like giant mechanical chickens or ground hellicoptors.

[Darik Sdair]

I think the problem with hijacking comes up because there are two distinct camps of thought within the BattleTech fan base about BattleTech's technology level.

One group holds that BT has a technology level inferior to that demonstrated in 1970s militaries; this point of view is derived from the novels.

The other group holds that BT has a very high level of military technology, far superior to modern science even at the "low point" of the succession wars; this point of view is derived from an actual examination of the game system.

Because no specific heirarchy of Canonocity is laid out by BT's creators (its not really that important to them), and because the game and the novels contradict themselves a lot, fans tend to get into.... um..... heated discussions.

Meanwhile, the Gundam fans get bored and leave; part of this, I think, is because they aren't aware of the split in the fanbase, and as a result don't expect the arguments that come up.

[starfury]

One group holds that BT has a technology level inferior to that demonstrated in 1970s militaries; this point of view is derived from the novels.

considering that most of my BattleTech exposure is from the novels, I am with the first group

[Steve]

You must also consider that Weisman and the others were not military men, and did not know what the modern military was capable of or would be capable of.

In essence, the future caught up too fast.

That's why I tend to ignore what's in the novels and the game material, all of it written primarily by military novices, and concern myself with their intent, which is quite clear by their quotes about modern arms versus Btech arms. I'd never actually use this approach in a debate, but I consider BTech undebateable anyway, and really, the universe's strength is not in it's firepower but in the complexity and dynamic nature of it's universe.

It's really a very open universe and with a thousand years of recorded history (source material), you can do plenty of stories and game scenarios.

Of course, from my political viewpoint, the BattleTech universe is not a good place to live. Democratic government is dead (the Rasalhaguans were the closest to establishing a prosperous democracy, and look what happened to them; damn Clans), feudalism and aristocracy reign supreme, and even in supposedly freedom-loving states, like the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth/Alliance, you have rampant abuse of power by the noble class, militarism, and no protections for the populace against the next ruler being a tyrant aside from how loyal the military is to the government.

And then you have the Clans, a nightmare amalgation of classical Sparta, Maoist China, and with eugenics thrown in for added flavor (The "trueborn-freeborn" distinction) that has some similarities with Nazi racial ideology, just that there is no racial distinctions, the distinctions are related to how one is born, with the test-tube babies being considered superrior to those born naturally.

The Inner Sphere is not a very nice place...

[Steve]

Of course, this makes for ample storyline growth when you bring them into contact with democratic republics, as I have done in a certain work that has become ignored.... :evil:

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

I have never had a beef against B-Tech. i thik it's a great universe for a warrior. But when it comes to things like B-Tech vs. Gundam or B-Tech vs. WH40K, both would wipe the floor with B-tech. Other than that, B-Tech is good. Belay that - it's downright great.

[The Yosemite Bear]

It all goes back to the anchient battle between the warring clans of "Tankers" and "Mecha" ever there is war between those too parties.

[Slartibartfast]

What I don't like about BattleTech is that the physics don't make any sense at all. Forget suspension of disbelief: BIGGER cannons have LOWER ranges while tiny autocannons have the longest range. And lasers have the shortest range of all!

[The Yosemite Bear]

They fixed that in Renegade legion

Even the SMALLEST lasers can hit anything on the map. The bigger the bore, the longer the Shot

[Slartibartfast]

What's Renegade legion? Has it overriden the original rules? Do they use them in the computer games?

[phongn]

Of course, this makes for ample storyline growth when you bring them into contact with democratic republics, as I have done in a certain work that has become ignored.... :evil:

Bah. You have some creative errors in there, like the whole M1A2 being defeated by mechs

[Setzer]

Of course, this makes for ample storyline growth when you bring them into contact with democratic republics, as I have done in a certain work that has become ignored.... :evil:

Which work is that? It seems interesting.

I've had an on/off interest in battletech since before I was in 6th grade. Is it playable online as a traditional D&D style RPG? After playing Mechwarrior 2, I got pretty pissed with the video games.

[Setzer]

And then you have the Clans, a nightmare amalgation of classical Sparta, Maoist China, and with eugenics thrown in for added flavor (The "trueborn-freeborn" distinction) that has some similarities with Nazi racial ideology, just that there is no racial distinctions, the distinctions are related to how one is born, with the test-tube babies being considered superrior to those born naturally.

The Inner Sphere is not a very nice place...

Bah! Trueborn, freeborn, what's the difference? What matters is not how people are born, but what they grow to be.

[Darik Sdair]

Of course, this makes for ample storyline growth when you bring them into contact with democratic republics, as I have done in a certain work that has become ignored.... :evil:

Which work is that? It seems interesting.

I've had an on/off interest in battletech since before I was in 6th grade. Is it playable online as a traditional D&D style RPG? After playing Mechwarrior 2, I got pretty pissed with the video games.

There is an online program (called MegaMek) that lets you play BattleTech online; however, as far as actual RPG playing, you'll want to keep an eye out for the Classic BattleTech RPG (formerly known as MechWarrior RPG), which is being re-released in a couple of months.

Information about BattleTech can be found at www.classicbattletech.com; information about megamek can be found on Sourceforge, IIRC.

[Steve]

And then you have the Clans, a nightmare amalgation of classical Sparta, Maoist China, and with eugenics thrown in for added flavor (The "trueborn-freeborn" distinction) that has some similarities with Nazi racial ideology, just that there is no racial distinctions, the distinctions are related to how one is born, with the test-tube babies being considered superrior to those born naturally.

The Inner Sphere is not a very nice place...

Bah! Trueborn, freeborn, what's the difference? What matters is not how people are born, but what they grow to be.

Tell that to the Clans.

As for the work being spoken of:
http://sbsteve1.tripod.com/btse/teaser.html

[Steve]

Of course, this makes for ample storyline growth when you bring them into contact with democratic republics, as I have done in a certain work that has become ignored.... :evil:

Bah. You have some creative errors in there, like the whole M1A2 being defeated by mechs

Don't make me hurt you.

Slarty: my pet theory for the autocannons thing is that the reason the heavier bores have shorter range is accuracy issues. Autocannons don't fire one round but a burst, like a MG, and that's bound to fubar targeting. Particularly for heavy calibers.

So while an AC-2, which appears to be a 30mm, can easily pick away at it's targets at range even at full fire, the heavier autocannon bores can't. So their effective ranges are shortened.

Lasers are probably effected by atmospheric material, dust and the like, reducing their range. Targeting system capabilities make up the difference.

[VF5SS]

My only beef with B-tech is that I can never find anyone to play it with

[Darik Sdair]

My only beef with B-tech is that I can never find anyone to play it with

VF-5, check out www.commandohq.com and see if you have a Firebase in your area - if you do, the local Commando can probably help you find gamers in your area to play with/against.

[consequences]

actually,at least half of the novel inconsistencies I have found have been from William H. Kieth, and his Gray Death Legion, lead by Grayson Death "The scriptwiter is on my side and I always crit with a satchel charge when I need to" Carlyle. The description given in the second edition rulebook is actually a lot more lousy for the Inner Sphere than the novels ever made it out to be.

[Setzer]

And then you have the Clans, a nightmare amalgation of classical Sparta, Maoist China, and with eugenics thrown in for added flavor (The "trueborn-freeborn" distinction) that has some similarities with Nazi racial ideology, just that there is no racial distinctions, the distinctions are related to how one is born, with the test-tube babies being considered superrior to those born naturally.

The Inner Sphere is not a very nice place...

Bah! Trueborn, freeborn, what's the difference? What matters is not how people are born, but what they grow to be.

Tell that to the Clans.

As for the work being spoken of:
http://sbsteve1.tripod.com/btse/teaser.html

Thanks. As for talking to the clans, they live how many hundred lightyears from Earth? Me telling them off almost Douglas Adamsesque. The _Ryoga_ plots a course to each clan homeworld, then the Clansmen see a huge 20KM long ship landing in their atmosphere, burning off a good deal of it, and then a hatch opens , a walkway extends, and I tell them off... Setzer the Infinitely Cynical...

[Steve]

Bah! Trueborn, freeborn, what's the difference? What matters is not how people are born, but what they grow to be.

Tell that to the Clans.

As for the work being spoken of:
http://sbsteve1.tripod.com/btse/teaser.html

Thanks. As for talking to the clans, they live how many hundred lightyears from Earth? Me telling them off almost Douglas Adamsesque. The _Ryoga_ plots a course to each clan homeworld, then the Clansmen see a huge 20KM long ship landing in their atmosphere, burning off a good deal of it, and then a hatch opens , a walkway extends, and I tell them off... Setzer the Infinitely Cynical...

I'd prefer siccing an army of democratic citizen-soldiers on Strana Mechty, and watching Katyusha and the Hall of Khans burn.

[phongn]

Bah. Crush them under the cleansing fire of the atom and reshape their shattered society in the image of the West

[Sea Skimmer]

Bah. Crush them under the cleansing fire of the atom and reshape their shattered society in the image of the West

That’s my damn line, though it needs more genocide and west replaced with my.

That’s my damn line, though it needs more genocide and west replaced with my