Are Acclamator's obsolete?

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-10-19 04:34am

Got me thinking. The first Acclamator-class vessel entered service 18 years before A New Hope. In modern naval terms, an 18 year old ship (unless we're talking aircraft carriers which can last for half a century in service) is just over halfway through it's service life. We know that Dreadnoughts are far older than this- and are still in service in large numbers.

Is it likely that the Acclamator class is still in service, seeing as its a troop carrier? What about the LAAT, AT-TE, etc?

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-10-19 05:30am

Hmm difficult possible they're still in service, we didn't see any troop landing operations during the original trilogy so it's very well possible.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-10-19 05:43am

I doubt it. I also seriously doubt that Imperial ships are many orders of magnitude more powerful than late Republic-era ships... such a jump in development would imply that, after 25,000 years, technology has an insanely massive leap. Nah... I don't buy it.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-10-19 05:58am

Me neither to be honest. If anything, I think its damn obvious that the late Old Republic/ early Imperial hardware:

-Clonetroopers
-LAATs
-AT-TEs and other vehicles we see on Geonosis

is merely a different application of long refined technologies. Look at how heavily armed the clonetroopers are- they're designed for open combat with a peer enemy force- the Seperatists. AT-ATs and stormtroopers are just further refinements of this to suit changing requirements: the use of smaller E-11 carbines over the more massive rifles evidenced in AOTC (though there are very similar big guns in the possesion of stormies in ANH especially, they are not as prevalent because the firepower isn't required), the massive AT-ATs, high and invincible on the battlefield, as much a terror weapon as an effective weapon of war; etc.

I just have this picture:

imagine Imperial LAATs, painted in the typical grey of AT-ATs/STs and other Imperial warships, spitting death from the sky ... fwar.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-10-19 10:29am

SPOOFE wrote:

I doubt it. I also seriously doubt that Imperial ships are many orders of magnitude more powerful than late Republic-era ships... such a jump in development would imply that, after 25,000 years, technology has an insanely massive leap. Nah... I don't buy it.

I couldn't agree more. It's widely accepted that there is not major revolution or technological developments in SW. They have been in technological stasis for at least 4,000 years; with only incremental improvement being made in technology. The only difference between the AMT and the ISD are different role requiring different power outputs, and specifications.

Eighteen years is nothing considering the useful life of even a surface navy vessel, in space away from corrosive elements, and gravity a starship could easily still be fucntioning.

It a transport, transports are still required in the in the OT era. There are a great many garrisions in the galaxy, somebodies got to truck the troops
around. Using an ISD would be a waste in most cases, and with the rebels sculking around using mere freighters as transports would be foolish in certain systems. The AMT carries more troops then an ISD. In short the AMT still has a mission and they should still have plenty of useful hull life left in them.

In RL naval vessels are not pulled out of service just because something new arrives on the scene. Older vessels are upgraded, sometimes completely rebuilt . Why? because it cheaper to upgrade than to go with new construction. Take for example, the service life extension plan on american aircraft carriers (some of which are over 50 years old).

At the very worst the AMT's would be transferred to reserve or System service.

The ISD is not millions or even thousands of times more powerful than the AMT. WEG scaling be damned!

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-19 10:44am

It should be noted that techologly did not HAVE to take a quatnum leap foward, we can see that the HEAVY guns of the Acclmator are roughly the size(Though slightly smaller) than the MEDIUM guns of an ISD

One could compare it to a WII Destroyers 6-8 Guns VS an Iowa's 16-Inchers

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-10-19 11:02am

What about LAATs? Out of use? I just love these things so much (my favorite Attack of the Clones vehicle)- would they have been useful at Hoth? If yes, why weren't they deployed?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-10-19 11:28am

With the technological stagnation in Wars, I don’t think there could be sufficiently radical new adoptions of what they already have to make the Acclamator obsolete. Fighters, which are more sensitive in there performance, are another story though.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-10-19 11:30am

Vympel wrote:What about LAATs? Out of use? I just love these things so much (my favorite Attack of the Clones vehicle)- would they have been useful at Hoth? If yes, why weren't they deployed?

Their repulsorlift so they could not have passed through the shield edge like the AT-AT force could. We also didn't see any TIE bombers, even though they where designed to support ground forces.

However given the attrition such forces are likely to suffer, I'd doubt many LAAT's are left even though they may well still be in service.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-10-19 12:10pm

What about the flying fortresses carried by the VSD? Perhaps they've replaced the LAATs?

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-10-19 12:21pm

In this thread, I agree with Vympel

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-19 12:37pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:What about the flying fortresses carried by the VSD? Perhaps they've replaced the LAATs?

Good idea. Maybe that's what happened.

Admiral Drason · Post by **Admiral Drason** » 2002-10-19 12:58pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Vympel wrote:What about LAATs? Out of use? I just love these things so much (my favorite Attack of the Clones vehicle)- would they have been useful at Hoth? If yes, why weren't they deployed?
Their repulsorlift so they could not have passed through the shield edge like the AT-AT force could. We also didn't see any TIE bombers, even though they where designed to support ground forces.

However given the attrition such forces are likely to suffer, I'd doubt many LAAT's are left even though they may well still be in service.

Why wouldnt they build new ones?

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-19 01:02pm

Depends on how long it takes, and how expensive they are. If the fortress was cheaper and easier to build, sayonara LAAT.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-19 01:28pm

IG-88E wrote:Depends on how long it takes, and how expensive they are. If the fortress was cheaper and easier to build, sayonara LAAT.

Or simple combat effectiveness. The Empire puts a much higher premium on combat power.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-10-19 05:04pm

Vympel wrote:What about LAATs? Out of use? I just love these things so much (my favorite Attack of the Clones vehicle)- would they have been useful at Hoth? If yes, why weren't they deployed?

We know that the Rebels had difficulty adapting the repusorlifts to the cold, I waoul assume the imperials would have the same difficulties.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-10-19 05:10pm

Ender wrote:
Vympel wrote:What about LAATs? Out of use? I just love these things so much (my favorite Attack of the Clones vehicle)- would they have been useful at Hoth? If yes, why weren't they deployed?
We know that the Rebels had difficulty adapting the repusorlifts to the cold, I waoul assume the imperials would have the same difficulties.

Makes sense, no doubt that's why we don't see them. And if they had been there the Rebel's wouldn't have taken out a single AT-AT.

Woohoo, 400 posts, about time...

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-19 07:27pm

Congrats, my fellow Buffalonian!

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-10-19 09:30pm

Ah! Another person from the City known as Hell!

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-10-19 09:36pm

The Acclamator is perfect for it's job. It can carry lots of troops, but isn't big so that it's nearly impossible to find a place to land. It could still be in service, or have a sucessor with some improvement over it, such as a higher power output, stronger hull, more accurate weapons, or higher capacity with similar dimensions.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-10-19 11:07pm

Ender wrote:

We know that the Rebels had difficulty adapting the repusorlifts to the cold, I waoul assume the imperials would have the same difficulties.

That maybe part of the reason, but the main reason is stated in SW2ICS. Repulsorlifts can't pass through shields; its also why there were no TIE's present during the ground battle, even though we know they participated in the space battle.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2002-10-19 11:19pm

Wasn't it said in the Imperial Source Book (which I do not own, unfortunately) that Imperial fleets or army forces or somesuch's stardard military transports carry 16,000 troops?
If they were built in large numbers (probable), Acclamators are likely at least as prevelent in modern forces as the VSD.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-19 11:42pm

Alan Bolte wrote:Wasn't it said in the Imperial Source Book (which I do not own, unfortunately) that Imperial fleets or army forces or somesuch's stardard military transports carry 16,000 troops?
If they were built in large numbers (probable), Acclamators are likely at least as prevelent in modern forces as the VSD.

I really don't see why we should assume that they were built in similar numbers. The Clone Wars were not only over faster than the Galactic Civil War (meaning that the Acclamators would have had less time to be constructed), but the Acclamators were made only to house and transport an army that was constructed secretly by a single, sparsely populated world (I assume it's sparsely populated because its inhabitants appeared terrestrial). ISD's were built for more time, by more worlds, in an effort to conquer and hold the Galaxy. This leads me to believe that ISD's are far more numerous. In any case, in a modern military sense, warships almost always outnumber the very large troop ships that they are designed in part to protect.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-10-19 11:51pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
I really don't see why we should assume that they were built in similar numbers. The Clone Wars were not only over faster than the Galactic Civil War (meaning that the Acclamators would have had less time to be constructed), but the Acclamators were made only to house and transport an army that was constructed secretly by a single, sparsely populated world (I assume it's sparsely populated because its inhabitants appeared terrestrial). ISD's were built for more time, by more worlds, in an effort to conquer and hold the Galaxy. This leads me to believe that ISD's are far more numerous. In any case, in a modern military sense, warships almost always outnumber the very large troop ships that they are designed in part to protect.

Acclamator's and the rest of the clone army's equipment were built by Kuat Drive Yards subsidiary Rothana Heavy Engineering shipyards and factories at Rothana (the name is an intervention by George Lucas), not at Kamino. The ICS describe Rothana as having "immense underground factories" (for the assault vehilces and LAATs etc) and "honeycombed shipyards".

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-20 12:07am

Vympel wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:
I really don't see why we should assume that they were built in similar numbers. The Clone Wars were not only over faster than the Galactic Civil War (meaning that the Acclamators would have had less time to be constructed), but the Acclamators were made only to house and transport an army that was constructed secretly by a single, sparsely populated world (I assume it's sparsely populated because its inhabitants appeared terrestrial). ISD's were built for more time, by more worlds, in an effort to conquer and hold the Galaxy. This leads me to believe that ISD's are far more numerous. In any case, in a modern military sense, warships almost always outnumber the very large troop ships that they are designed in part to protect.
Acclamator's and the rest of the clone army's equipment were built by Kuat Drive Yards subsidiary Rothana Heavy Engineering shipyards and factories at Rothana (the name is an intervention by George Lucas), not at Kamino. The ICS describe Rothana as having "immense underground factories" (for the assault vehilces and LAATs etc) and "honeycombed shipyards".

I know that, but the purpose of the Acclamators was to house and move the Clone Army, which was constructed exclusively on Kamino. The conclusion is that few Acclamators would have been necessary for such a purpose, or at least fewer than ISD's.