Unconfirmed Report - 130 US Soldiers killed in Iraq

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-04-07 01:52pm

Durandal wrote:We're trying to build a democracy in Iraq, and that won't happen if we just shit all over their religion, much as I hate to say it.

We shat all over the Catholic Religion by blowing Monte Cassino to hell,
yet I don't see angry mobs of Catholics demanding vengeance blah blah

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-04-07 01:54pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Durandal wrote:We're trying to build a democracy in Iraq, and that won't happen if we just shit all over their religion, much as I hate to say it.
We shat all over the Catholic Religion by blowing Monte Cassino to hell,
yet I don't see angry mobs of Catholics demanding vengeance blah blah

Given how much more connected and devoted they are, be it insanely or not, to their religon...blowing up their places of worship is not going to win us any points towards them trusting us.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-04-07 01:58pm

MKSheppard wrote:We shat all over the Catholic Religion by blowing Monte Cassino to hell, yet I don't see angry mobs of Catholics demanding vengeance blah blah

When was the last time Catholic fundamentalists flew planes into buildings? While I still hate the Church, it got over its "Kill everyone who doesn't agree with us" phase a while ago. Fundamentalist Islam has not.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-04-07 02:01pm

Basically this is insurgent's trick #1

begin firing from a place that the ROE's says is untouchable, then complain about the results.

Yeah, how old is the concept of firing at people from the Hospital, church Etc. I lost count. There's even the popular "use women and children as human shields while your throwing stones/grenades/firing on the enemy" which has probably been in use since humanity started war.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-04-07 02:08pm

You can't complain too loudly about ROE's that you should have known you would be stuck with if you were in the least bit knowledgable about the area you were invading. Bush should have known this was going to happen as a consequence of invading so the complaints can't be too loud or outraged.

And as to your WWII analogy Shep. Last time I checked that was Christians fighting Christians. This conflict takes on a whole other aspect and to a people and culture that are still mired in the Medieval past the Crusades are still a strong rallying point for our enemies.

Once again, all I'm saying is that Bush went into this and should have worked out all the consequences of this invasion. Tough shit if the rebels aren't playing "fair"

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-04-07 02:22pm

I mean the whole complain about the Destruction of the Sacred Groves, and not mention that the Athenians were using skirmisher's to harrass the Spartans from the "Protection" of the Sacred Grove....

Yeah, sorryy, but it's a law of war, the other side won't play fair. (come to think of it, I have been very sucessful at killing Apache's and blackhawks with sufficiant numbers of GLA RPG troops and sniper troops hiding in buildings....

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-07 02:38pm

Stravo wrote:You can't complain too loudly about ROE's that you should have known you would be stuck with if you were in the least bit knowledgable about the area you were invading. Bush should have known this was going to happen as a consequence of invading so the complaints can't be too loud or outraged.

And as to your WWII analogy Shep. Last time I checked that was Christians fighting Christians. This conflict takes on a whole other aspect and to a people and culture that are still mired in the Medieval past the Crusades are still a strong rallying point for our enemies.

Once again, all I'm saying is that Bush went into this and should have worked out all the consequences of this invasion. Tough shit if the rebels aren't playing "fair"

What the fuck Stravo? The guys on the ground were never tasked with 'working out the consequences' beforehand. And the last time i check Georgie wasn't on the ground. So as far as i'm concerned, if the CO on the ground has the following choices:

A) Ignore fire from culture-sensitive area and watch platoon get picked off

or

B) Shoot the fuckers trying to kill us and avoid damage if possible

the CO should choose B and he shouldn't be fucking questioned about it.

h0rus · Post by **h0rus** » 2004-04-07 02:41pm

I just love the way these politicians in these threads are taking the piss on the soldiers for being soldiers. U.S / Other Soldiers lives > stupid religious simple of backward assed motherfuckers. Fuck off idiots. Mind your idiotic opinion, it is of no relevance other than jacking your pathetic scholarly ass off.

h0rus · Post by **h0rus** » 2004-04-07 02:43pm

h0rus wrote:I just love the way these politicians in these threads are taking the piss on the soldiers for being soldiers. U.S / Other Soldiers lives > stupid religious simple of backward assed motherfuckers. Fuck off idiots. Mind your idiotic opinion, it is of no relevance other than jacking your pathetic scholarly ass off.

simple/symbol. boy, i'm a fucked typist.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-04-07 02:51pm

The political decision placed those soldiers in that position.

Put it this way. You KNOW or should know that the US is not well liked in the Arab world

You KNOW or should know that the Fundmentalists will use whatever means neccessary to fight, including fighting from holy places (last year we had Palestinians holing up inside the church of the Nativity to escape capture.)

You KNOW or should have known that you will eventually have to make the decision to fire on holy places or make them safe havens.

Yet you act shocked and surprised when this happens?! The soldiers should never have been placed in that position. If you're going to invade a nation and rebuild it to your liking then there will be some costs involved and you cannot build a democracy by bombing its holy sites and expect to be listened to or taken seriously.

Either you're an occupying force and as such will exercise whatever force you want to quell and suppress the opposition or you decide to respect certain boundaries even to your detriment. Once you go down the road of bombing cultural and religious sites don't cry foul when your nation building takes a wrong turn.

Like it or not, muslim countries have to be handled very differently than other nations because of the religious angle that our enemy will play. We decided to go in knowing this.

BTW at no time did I fault the soldiers, I have been repetitive at laying the blame here in the leadership which has not been heard from much on this issue other than the pathetic line that the handover of power is still going to go forward as planned.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-04-07 04:51pm

Yeah, The Daily Show had a great clip of Bush doing the usual "Um ... uh ... uh ... um" act when questioned about who we were actually going to hand the leadership over to.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-07 04:58pm

last year we had Palestinians holing up inside the church of the Nativity to escape capture.

That was for the hostages. Israel had no qualms about attacking the building if necessary. What they were concerned about was a bloodbath among the monks and nuns that were taken hostage.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-04-07 04:59pm

Durandal wrote:Yeah, The Daily Show had a great clip of Bush doing the usual "Um ... uh ... uh ... um" act when questioned about who we were actually going to hand the leadership over to.

That is one smokin' potato.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-04-07 05:07pm

Durandal wrote: When was the last time Catholic fundamentalists flew planes into buildings? While I still hate the Church, it got over its "Kill everyone who doesn't agree with us" phase a while ago. Fundamentalist Islam has not.

There's a cure all for that problem

It's called the Minuteman.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-04-07 05:09pm

Stravo wrote: This conflict takes on a whole other aspect and to a people and culture that are still mired in the Medieval past the Crusades are still a strong rallying point for our enemies.

So? If they don't like it, we can just pull back and use Drones as laser
designators for 2,000 pound LGBs from F/A-18Es

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-04-07 05:23pm

It sure is a good thing that President Bush bravely led the American people into Iraq in their war of liberation, to bring "stability" and "freedom" to the Middle East. You can just feel the warm glow of peace, prosperity, and freedom spreading ... or is that the fires of hatred?

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2004-04-07 05:45pm

h0rus wrote:I just love the way these politicians in these threads are taking the piss on the soldiers for being soldiers. U.S / Other Soldiers lives > stupid religious simple of backward assed motherfuckers. Fuck off idiots. Mind your idiotic opinion, it is of no relevance other than jacking your pathetic scholarly ass off.

Tell me, are you totaly illiterate or simply stupid?

No one in this thread has pissed on soldiers for doing their jobs in way, manner or form. No one has even questioned the justification of the attack on the mosque. However several people have pointed out that attacking mosques is a bad idea because it serves to further inflame the situation in Iraq, resulting in even more carnage. Others have accused Bush of charging headfirst in to this disaster under the naive belief that American troops would be greeted as liberators. If you disagree with either assertion you should try and addressing them instead of your silly little Straw Man, but hey if you really wish masturbate while reading the glorious attack you have mounted at your moronic Straw Man fallacy over and over again, go right ahead. Maybe you will succeed in convincing you peanut sized brain that your penis more then inch in length while fully erect, troll.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-04-07 06:38pm

MKSheppard wrote:These scum have to learn that they can't evade US troops by simply running
into a Mosque to hide. If you run into a mosque lugging a RPG and use
said Mosque as a base of fire...well, expect some 120MM tank fire to come
your way.

I have to agree with Sheppard. These are not children, and they're not stupid. They know exactly how they think they can trap us politically. Well its tactically unacceptable to give the enemy free havens that easily.

Send a clear message. Use mosques to attack the U.S. and you make your mosques a target of the U.S. They're not stupid. They understand that.

KrauserKrauser · Post by **KrauserKrauser** » 2004-04-07 08:04pm

I'll gladly donate 5 bucks to a Mosque rebuilding plan for every Mosque our troops have to blow the fuck out of because some psychotic fundamentalist decided he wanted to be closer to Allah when a tank shell landed on him.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-04-08 12:07am

Darth Wong wrote:It sure is a good thing that President Bush bravely led the American people into Iraq in their war of liberation, to bring "stability" and "freedom" to the Middle East. You can just feel the warm glow of peace, prosperity, and freedom spreading ... or is that the fires of hatred?

At least it's not the warm glow of strontium and plutonium...

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-04-08 12:11am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:These scum have to learn that they can't evade US troops by simply running
into a Mosque to hide. If you run into a mosque lugging a RPG and use
said Mosque as a base of fire...well, expect some 120MM tank fire to come
your way.
I have to agree with Sheppard. These are not children, and they're not stupid. They know exactly how they think they can trap us politically. Well its tactically unacceptable to give the enemy free havens that easily.

Send a clear message. Use mosques to attack the U.S. and you make your mosques a target of the U.S. They're not stupid. They understand that.

Better yet, would be to provide security outside the Mosques, so that no one brings guns into the mosques, making it a danger for the mosque, while were at it, protect the musemes, hospitols and schools too.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2004-04-08 04:20pm

Bah, I'm with Shep. Bomb every rotten pile of sand these douchebags think is holy, let every last Muslim who wants to object run out into the streets to throw rocks and act like a shithead, and then kill them en masse. Fine, we're occupiers, can we start crushing rebel scum with an iron fist now?

KrauserKrauser · Post by **KrauserKrauser** » 2004-04-08 05:21pm

Too late to turn the place into a molten glass parking lot?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-04-08 05:24pm

KrauserKrauser wrote:Too late to turn the place into a molten glass parking lot?

I suppose you would be the first person to get offended if I start making crass remarks about the World Trade Centre or civilian contractors in Iraq being strung up, but jokes about genocide are OK, right?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-04-08 05:48pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Bah, I'm with Shep. Bomb every rotten pile of sand these douchebags think is holy, let every last Muslim who wants to object run out into the streets to throw rocks and act like a shithead, and then kill them en masse. Fine, we're occupiers, can we start crushing rebel scum with an iron fist now?

Yes, that sort of reasoned, intelligent response is so much better than mindless violence.

Excuse me, but exactly what is the reason we're supposed to be in Iraq?