You're in charge in Iraq; what do you do?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-04-09 01:35am

OK, suppose you're the guy who makes the call on what US forces in Iraq do now in the midst of this turmoil and insurrection (and let's not do this ridiculous Rumsfeldian "it's only a handful of thugs" bullshit; we all know it's a full-blown insurrection).

So what do you do?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-04-09 01:46am

There was a very simple way the Romans enforced law on their provinces. If you hurt a Roman citizen, they curbstomped you into the ground. Sadly, the nature of modern weapons makes it nearly impossible to just nail the insurrectionists with this overwhelming counterforce, so it becomes alot less useful.

Frankly, I can't see much other way to stop the insurrection.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-04-09 01:51am

More troops, somewhat more agressive. Not to the point of disregarding rules of engagement WRT civilians, but we're talking about damn near a division encircling Falluja, then going house to fucking house and cleaning things up. You find an AK in the house, someone's got some big explaining to do. You find an RPG, someone's off to Gitmo.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-04-09 01:54am

You have to appeal to the psyche of the Iraqis who are instigating the attacks. If we keep with the status quo, the Iraqis kill our soldiers in hit and fade attacks, take hostages, and drag bodies through the streets. They know that since the USA is a "civilized" country, we can't respond in kind, so this emboldens the Iraqis as they claim they can destroy the "invaders" and easily kill the powerful Americans.

So, if I were in charge, we'd definitely go medieval on their ass. The troops pull out of one theatre of fighting at a time. An announcement is made to turn over the cleric or the Grand Kliegal, or the dungeonmaster that is heading the insurgents. If he is not presented, CARPET BOMB THAT CITY. LEVEL IT.

Right now, the general consensus is "this is the best the Americans can do, and we are killing them!" Well, we should REALLY show them what the Americans are capable of.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2004-04-09 01:59am

I chose "get medieval on their asses" because you must fight fundamentalist stupidity with fundamentailist stupidity

Capture 4 insurgents. Shoot 3 and bury them in pigs blood, assuring their descent into hell. Let the last one go to spread the story amongst the masses.

A clear and simple message to the fundies: Attack us, and we will condemn you to an eternity of firey damnation.

Of course, unless I'm mistaken, this constitutes war crimes...namely execution of prisoners and defacement of the dead...etc etc...but honestly, I don't give a damn at this point. If they're going to burn civilians alive, I'm surprised I didn't first think up drowning them in pigs blood.

It also lacks the benefit of affecting, the albeit small number of, secular members of the insurgency, but it will affect the fundies leading it for sure.

Post by **haas mark** » 2004-04-09 02:00am

Erm... I may be stupid here, I don't know, but I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "status quo" in this regard. Could you possibly explain?

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2004-04-09 02:00am

who the fuck declared war on pornography?

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-04-09 02:05am

If the two religeous sects are agreeing with each other..or at least cooperating, then sooner or later an Islamic government in waiting will form and its army will procicute a war/insurrection agianst US/occupation forces. This will leave the US two options.. indescriminate mass slaughter to try and pacify the country, or leave them to their own mideval stupidity.

Either way US policy will be left in ruins and the US made look like fools.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-04-09 02:07am

I'll take alternate plan J- Pull out of Iraq, say "fuck you" to Isreal, and spend the 80 billion on developing the Siberian oil fields, which have more gasoline in them than the entire middle east has unrefined oil.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-04-09 02:55am

What our my goals in this scenario? If it is just to get control of Iraq, and its oil, then go midevil on its ass definetly. It is clear that at this point the US is failing both as an Empire or as a Liberator. Simply put the approach right now is too soft to form a US Empire, and in some instances too heavy handed to be welcomed as a liberator.

This is its main fault. Simply put; the US forces are woefully under-educated in dealing with Iraqies, in a statement by a religious leader in the 'Sunni triangle' who also accepted the US's offer to become mayor of (Fuljaha I think), he lamented how the British soldiers, and leaders, as a whole were more aware of local custom, and didn't ruffle as many feathers (please note this is before the major insurgent operations began).

Then a few cultural fuckups later, he was targeted by insurgents for 'cooperating with the enemy', and eventually stood down as mayor. And the 'Sunni triangle' erupted in daily fights.

The point is that with this in mind (the US being woefully un-prepared in dealing with Iraqis), it would be much more easier and quicker in going 'midevil on their asses' than instituting a re-education program for the military and the political elites in Iraq.

Of course this response is only valid in a 'bubble thought' state of mind. Ergo no geo-political backlash from the international comunity.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-04-09 09:34am

If it was me personally, I would just pull out.

However, if the desire was to keep Iraq under direct American control then there are only two possible courses of action. (Note: I would resign before doing these).

1. Put into power another puppet dictator (or even put Saddam back if your REALLY desperate).

2. Get "Roman" on them. Start killing 100 Iraqis for every American killed. Crucify or burn alive captured Insurgents and their families. Carpet bomb "problematic" towns. Of course, if your doing this, don't plan on winning the next election (but if this is your 2nd term this is not an issue).

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-04-09 10:01am

I get medieval on their asses. It is impossible to win over the hearts and minds, so I'll stop wasting time, resources and lives trying to do so. This IS an occupation and we're doing a piss poor job. While I never would have invaded Iraq in the first place, now that I have the country my grip is iron-fisted and my retaliation against any and all opposition is swift, precise and overkill. Rule by fear, until we can get to a point where rule by law is even an option.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-04-09 10:07am

Realsitically?

Pull out.

In a la-la fantasy world?

Do whatever I feel like...maybe go Roman, decide to teach the Middle East a lesson, or just leave because I've basically done nothing but upset some tigers.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-04-09 10:19am

"If their man pulls a knife, your man pulls a gun. If they send your man to the hospital, you send their man to the morgue. That's how you get insurgents."

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-09 10:20am

Thirdfain wrote:I'll take alternate plan J- Pull out of Iraq, say "fuck you" to Isreal, and spend the 80 billion on developing the Siberian oil fields, which have more gasoline in them than the entire middle east has unrefined oil.

*ding-ding-ding-ding! we have a winner. Not only do we get our oil from a more senible source, but it would greatly benefit Russia economicly. Plus US-Russian relations would strengthen immensely. and Russia would be in a better position to 'play spetsnatz' with would be islamo-fundies.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-04-09 10:42am

"Amongst the thirty-six stragetems of war, retreat is the best option"

Pull out, leave the mess to the various different factions on the ground and contain the whole mess.

If there really isn't any WMDs there, and since "oil" isn't the reason for the war, it would be easier to just simply contain the situation rather than defuse it. The US cannot possibly hope to sustain a partisan war in Iraq Give them their victory, salvage whathever prestige and rep left and move on. Hell, handing over power to that cleric in a "democratic" election may work as the excuse.

Since the US and Britain are friendly with all the nations that border Iraq, it should be possible to cordon off Iraq.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-04-09 10:59am

PainRack wrote: Hell, handing over power to that cleric in a "democratic" election may work as the excuse.

I think the fear is that if a "hard-line" Shitte cleric were to win the election he would attempt to join Iraq with Iran.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-04-09 11:10am

I'm almost willing to say pull out and let the animals wipe themselves out.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-09 11:23am

Someone at another board I go to half-jokingly suggested leveling Mecca and Medina, but somehow I don't think that would be constructive.

I don't think I'd go Roman on their asses. Maybe Israeli.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-04-09 11:45am

More aggressive, I suppose. I'll wait and see if the Marines can put down the current insurgency in the Triangle. I'd give them a little more of a free hand to do it, no major destruction or massacres but not so much political hand tying either.

I'd refocus to finding the leaders and spokesmen of the insurgents and wipe them out (Isreali style if needed) preferably with ground troops. Stop giving passes to 'religeous leaders' cause they're not or at least they are but also leaders of rebellion.

And finally, I guess if shit keeps going down this route, I'd say fuck it and do what I could to split the country of Iraq into three (Sunni, Shite, and Kurd) and then ask which one wants to be our friend. (Turkey won't be thrilled with that but......)

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-04-09 11:45am

Wicked Pilot wrote:I'm almost willing to say pull out and let the animals wipe themselves out.

Then we'll likely end up having to go back in 10 years.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2004-04-09 11:58am

Give the special forces carte blanche to rape, burn, and pillage. Send them out with orders which go something like "kill all the clerics & fundies". Assassinations and black ops are back in style. Start contracting out hits and small operations to private security contractors and give them free reign to get the job done. Everytime a contractor gets killed we claim it as a civilian casualty and use that as propaganda to do our dirty work.

Option 2. Give Israel full military support & economic aid and let them run over as much of the middle east as they damn well please. Once they start steamrolling over countries use the distraction to really get medieval on Iraq, hell, you could probably pin most of the stuff on the Israelis if you do it right.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2004-04-09 12:02pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:I'm almost willing to say pull out and let the animals wipe themselves out.

The problem is they dont do a good enough job at wiping themselves out in a reasonable timespan.

So the problem will just fester.

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » 2004-04-09 12:45pm

SirNitram wrote:There was a very simple way the Romans enforced law on their provinces. If you hurt a Roman citizen, they curbstomped you into the ground. Sadly, the nature of modern weapons makes it nearly impossible to just nail the insurrectionists with this overwhelming counterforce, so it becomes alot less useful.

The Romans usually threatened massively disproportionate reprisals against the civilian population, so they would quickly betray any insurgents for fear of the Roman reaction. Modern weapons would make such a tactic far more effective.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-09 12:49pm

People are reccomending the deliberate slaughter of thousands of civilians, yet i'm the warmonger. hmph.

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