Galactic Empire's ground forces vs Bugs in Starship Troopers

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2002-07-17 06:19am

If the Imperial Ground Forces invaded Klendathu instead of Mobile Infantry, what kind of battle we'll have?

Premise:
- Galactic Empire's ground forces consist of units seen in the original trilogy: Stormtroopers, Scout Troopers, Speeder Bikes, AT-ST, and AT-AT (pls remind me if I miss something)
- No orbital bombardment (Where's the fun in that? Just bring in a single ISD and Klendathu will be flattened.)
- TIE Bomber support allowed (just like in the ST movie where Terran's Federation fighter/bomber bombarded a Bug colony in Klendathu)
- Stormtrooper Transports allowed
- All Bug units seen in the movies allowed: Warrior, Hopper, & Tanker (again, pls remind me if I miss something)
- Darth Vader's in charge (so he can telepathically track down the Brain Bug ala Terran Federation intelligence officer)

So... how the battle would like? (Considering this is Imperial ground forces; how soon the bugs will be slaughtered?)

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-17 07:45am

1. Deploy Shielding around bases
2. Watch bugs run into shields
3. Laugh

Then you acutal have decent fights between the hopefuly smarter bugs who attack from under the base and Stormtroopers using Blas-21s to blow the crap out of them

As long as the shields stay up I predict and easy win for SW troops
AT-AT's can be held close in for Tank bug Supression, And Tie Bombers assinged to anti-artillry roles(Read more manuvrable and faster than Terran fighters)
The final attack into the Bug Colony would be diffrent
At-STs could fit through most of the tunnels there making things easer(They carry gernade launcers but never used them in the movie)

Excpet Base defense to be on the order of twenty times better than Terran but the acutal final assult would be a near even I'd say

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2002-07-17 09:38am

The standard bugs of the movie have no ranged attacks, instead relying on direct physical attacks. The plates of standard stormtrooper armor would certainly be proof against the standard claws and jaws, so the only options for bug victory in individual combat would be to strike through the underlying bodyglove or to grapple and twist joints beyond the breaking point. That is an important stormtrooper advantage, one the incompetent boobs making the movie landing on Klendathu did not have.

So...

The stormtrooper complement of an ISD deploys to make a landing on Klendathu. The first order of business would be to secure the primary landing zone with a prefabricated base. The combination of laser cannon, turbolasers, high walls and heavily armed troopers would provide the base with adequate protection against almost any standard bug horde that could be envisioned. Add to that the standard minefields and you've got a serious obstacle to almost any bug horde. Obviously, however, one would want to site the base on completely solid bedrock, or a thick slab of fusionformed material. Either would be a natural part of the SOP when dealing with the siting of the enormous mass of a prefabricated outpost. Thus, I will assume protection of the primary base against burrowing attacks. After initial forays by bug hordes the base is likely to be subject to nothing more than occasional harassment by small suicide squads of bugs.

So, what then? Obviously just sitting behind the thick walls of a base will not allow the stormtroopers to subdue a planet.

Constant patrols by standard TIE fighters are likely, if only to keep the bugs from showing themselves. Flying at altitudes of several kilometers, the fighters will be proof against hoppers and unlikely to suffer attack by bombardier beetles the size of sail barges. A primary function of the TIE fighters will be to provide detachments of stormtroopers with air support. A flight of 4 TIEs strafing a bug horde from an altitude of 2 kilometers will make an impression. If the bug horde is suitably stationary, one or two bombers may be deployed. As bug hordes are expendable enemy assets that will yield no usable intelligence, restraint in the use of explosives is contraindicated: kiloton yield bombs dropped into those portions of bug hordes most distant from engaged friendly troops. Multi-megaton yield bombs and torpedoes can be used to break bug strongholds.

Despite their considerable firepower, AT-STs will be vulnerable if used in their scouting role. An AT-ST's weaponry would cut huge swathes out of any attacking horde, but it would hardly be immune to being swarmed and toppled by several hundred hoppers or a sudden rush from ambush by a large force of standard warriors. Therefore, the primary roles for AT-STs would be as flankers for AT-ATs, and as fire support vehicles for stormtrooper detachments. Since a long burst from the equivalent of an automatic M14 rifle applied to a small area was enough to penetrate the armored shell of a tanker bug, the twin blaster cannon of an AT-ST should easily blast a tanker bug apart with a short burst.

AT-ATs would be all but invulnerable on the battlefields of Klendathu. The main pair of laser cannon is a weapon the bugs have no effective counter to, and the lateral blater cannon provide additional flexibility in the application of plasma-based destruction. The massive, ground-shaking weight of the AT-AT is an additional advantage, making it effectively immune to attempts by bug hordes to topple it and simply collapsing near-surface tunnel complexes. Anything short of the plasma-farting giant bugs would be unable to penetrate the AT-AT's armor. The only possible method of overcoming an AT-AT would be for an enormous horde to attempt to climb the legs and directly attack the relatively lightly protected belly of the metal beast. Considering the massive armor of an AT-AT's legs, however, an AT-AT might be well served by its AT-ST flankers simply hosing down the AT-AT's legs with blaster fire.

On the defensive, infantry formations of stormtroopers would have to rely heavily on automatic blaster cannon supported by heavy blaster rifles, while on the offensive they would rely more on the heavy blaster rifles like those carried both on Tatooine and the Death Star to supplement the standard sidearm. No warrior or hopper bug is likely to be able to stand up to more than one solid hit from a heavy blaster rifle, since one well-placed shot to the center of mass from a slugthrowing sniper rifle was sufficient to do for a hopper. Given the tendency of bug parts to explode under fire due to the sensitivity of the exoskeleton to overpressure, a single heavy blaster rifle bolt to a limb would likely make part of the torso explode along with the limb. The ability of the bugs to continue on despite having limbs blown off would be the only counter, forcing troopers to finish off bugs they did not hit cleanly. I suspect there would be liberal use of thermal detonators, grenades and mortars. Combined with fire support from AT-STs, AT-ATs, TIE fighters and TIE bombers, bug hordes are unlikely to be able to overcome any but isolated or severely understrength detachments of stormtroopers.

Tunnel rat operations by stormtroopers would be more dangerous than open field combat, as such operations generally are in real life. Under the circumstances, the heavier blaster weaponry is likely to be limited to one or two troopers per squad, the troopers otherwise relying on their standard sidearms and the liberal application of extremely toxic gases and aerosols. The standard sidearms allow rapid semiautomatic fire sufficiently powerful to drop an armored stormtrooper with one hit at a range of at least fifty meters, with that level of power likely retained for several hundred meters, so that one or two hits to the center of mass would be a reasonable estimate for the firepower needed to take out a bug warrior in a final manner; a single bolt will take off a limb without necessarily compromising the combat effectiveness of the warrior. Light automatic blasters will be in high demand, as will flamethrowers, and launchers loaded with flechettes, if these assets are available.

If available, armed military droids with rapid-fire blasters will be sent into tunnels and unsecured surface sites first, otherwise formations of standard probe droids will be used to explore suspect areas. Probe droids are armed, allowing them to engage small enemy units, and the security destruct setting of a probe droid will certainly inconvenience enemy units that attempt to overcome a probe droid in close combat.

Biker scouts will be in their customary position of extreme danger, ranging far afield and serving as mobile screens for formations of troops and vehicles. In a flat-out race, a biker scout will be faster than a hopper, so that a likely function of biker scouts in open battle will be to harry the edges of bug hordes, quickly slashing in to unleash a barrage of blaster bolts and pulling away to reassess the situation. Losses to scout units will be unavoidable but limited.

In summary, the police action on Klendathu will ultimately be a standard aboriginal pacificaton operation as carried out on dozens of primitive worlds in the underdeveloped areas of this galaxy and its nearest neighbors.

CNS Sarajevo · Post by **CNS Sarajevo** » 2002-07-17 12:04pm

I agree with Mr. Ogaard on the claws and jaws assessment. I didn't think I would at first, but then I remembered the scene in AotC when Jango Fett got run over by one of the monsters in the arena, then got up and kept fighting. That's an ASTOUNDING example of the strength that trooper armor has.

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2002-07-17 12:16pm

CNS Sarajevo wrote:I agree with Mr. Ogaard on the claws and jaws assessment. I didn't think I would at first, but then I remembered the scene in AotC when Jango Fett got run over by one of the monsters in the arena, then got up and kept fighting. That's an ASTOUNDING example of the strength that trooper armor has.

Thanks.

Basically, the actual armor plates appear to be all but proof against anything short of a blaster. The bodyglove under the armor plates, though, is less resistant: Ewok arrows were able to penetrate in those cases where the arrows struck between the plates, and heavy rocks and the like used to strike the helmets apparently compressed or snapped the necks of troopers struck without damaging the helmets, exactly as would be natural for a highly resistant helmet without a mechanical linkage to the torso armor.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-07-17 01:24pm

Once the bugs saw the Imperial army strut its stuff, they would head for the hills, even brainless spiders know when to hit the road

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-17 04:25pm

AT-ATs have a range of 17.28+ km BTW. Even an old CloneTrooper rifle had a range IIRC 10 kilometers with a tripod, never mind new DLT-19s and E-Webs.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-17 05:32pm

As I pointed out before
SHIELDS

Shields melt/vap/burnup anything that touchs them directly so Imperial Bases(Which are Shielded) would along with everything be praticly Bug proof

That and shields are man-portant(Ref Courtship)

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2002-07-17 07:35pm

While I would disagree on mobile shields (they are very rarely used) the abundance of light and heavy armor within Imperial formaitons gives them a hitting power which the MI lacked along with range which the MI lacked. Generally speaking Mr Ogaard had the right tactics though I would modify them in one particular.

In tunnel clearing operations if you know the tunnel is hostile and you don't think there are valuable documents/prisoners inside (will never be the case here) then step one will involve a grenade. Throw a TD down the hole which should both collapse some dside tunnels and elimante several bugs. Additionally some of the smaller light armor (I'm thinking Chariots here) could be used to help limit casualties by providing cover against an immediate counter attack. Beyond this Stromtroopers do have use of a flamethrower type deice which would be incredibly handy in these close confines as would fletchlette canisters on older projectile weaponry as both can cover a large area with very lethal ammo.

Just a few extra thoughts to add in there.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-07-17 08:52pm

A few sqads with an E-web would mow down bugs by the thouasands. Bugs don't have any real armor. Blasters will cut threw them like the Hot Knives of Hell. Simply fighting as an army not a mob would doom the bugs even if it was only stormies.

Add things like armor and air support, it'll be an imperial massacre. Bugs have no way to respond to either except massive waves of suicidal bugs.

LMSx · Post by **LMSx** » 2002-07-17 10:02pm

Of course, assuming that the Bug Horde of Doom from midway through SST comes to destroy the forward base, it would be a simple matter to evacuate the Stormtroopers and then unleash the TIE Bombers on the massed horde.....

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-17 10:23pm

Stormtroopers would win easily. The bugs have no weapons for effectively combating them. Think about it. Stormtroopers are damn near invincible to physical attacks (like the bugs) they cannot be killed by most environmental hazards, and they are extremely well armed with small artillery pieces, repeating rifles, and thermal detonators. This one's not even a contest. I give the bugs three months against five prefab. garrisons off ISDs.

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2002-07-18 03:24am

The big question would be, with all that smoking bug meat around, would it taste like chicken? If so would the troopers start to get too fat to fit in their armor?