Imperial star destoryer vs domionion battleship

[starfury]

Imperial star destoryer vs 4 dominion battleships, the ISD is a mark 2 with Tie defenders and missile boats

[Stormbringer]

Imperial star destoryer vs 4 dominion battleships, the ISD is a mark 2 with Tie defenders and missile boats

They go down quick. Even a dommie battleship can stand up to the might of the Imperator.

[Stormbringer]

Imperial star destoryer vs 4 dominion battleships, the ISD is a mark 2 with Tie defenders and missile boats

They go down quick. Even a dommie battleship can stand up to the might of the Imperator.

Change the can to can't.

[Alyeska]

The most generous firepower that can be given to the 5km Battleship (which does not exist) is 18 GCSs per ship. So thats 4x18=72 ships. Even the most generous firepower I would rate the GCS at would take the ENTIRE compliment of weapons to approach a single HTL (all the torpedoes and all phasers in one single instant, and it still doesn't approach the 200 GT even in my generous ratings). So that means a single HTL outguns an entire GCS, and an entire GCS's weapon compliment can eventually take down a single Dominion Battleship (which doesn't exist).

Thus, even with 4 of these Battleships (which don't exist), it will only take 4 HTL shots to win.

If you mean the 1.2km Dreadnaught instead, well thats only 3 times the firepower of a GCS, and you merely need 4 MTLs instead.

[Mr Bean]

If you mean the 1.2km Dreadnaught instead, well thats only 3 times the firepower of a GCS, and you merely need 4 MTLs instead.

Look at the ICS descripitons and the Model sizes Alyeska, MTLs of the ISD and the Heavy Guns of the Acclimator are the same size while HTLs are even bigger

[Alyeska]

If you mean the 1.2km Dreadnaught instead, well thats only 3 times the firepower of a GCS, and you merely need 4 MTLs instead.

Look at the ICS descripitons and the Model sizes Alyeska, MTLs of the ISD and the Heavy Guns of the Acclimator are the same size while HTLs are even bigger

And I am sure you would gladly show me the error in my way for having a high end of 1GT Q-torps. Doesn't mater, I was showing the pointlessness of the debate.

[Mr Bean]

And I am sure you would gladly show me the error in my way for having a high end of 1GT Q-torps.

Prehaps another day

Doesn't mater, I was showing the pointlessness of the debate.

I was just point out a point in a pointless debate, its 11PM here so I'm feeling a bit trite you must understand

[Kuja]

This thread actually exists?

ISD-II all the way, man.

[Sea Skimmer]

Why is this thread in other sci fi anyway?

[consequences]

Because the Dominion Battleship doesn't exist in Real Star Trek continuity, therefore it has to be Other Sci-Fi. Kind of like how any discussion using the Star Trek novels could only be held here, since they aren't canon Star Trek.

[Vertigo1]

Because the Dominion Battleship doesn't exist in Real Star Trek continuity, therefore it has to be Other Sci-Fi. Kind of like how any discussion using the Star Trek novels could only be held here, since they aren't canon Star Trek.

Umm...so what's this then?



(Please excuse the crappy model. I'm in the middle of re-texturing this POS so it'll look remotely decent. You wouldn't believe how many polygon errors i had to fix on this thing...)

At any rate, this is still a Trek vs. Wars engagement. It belongs in the ST vs. SW forum.

[starfury]

sorry I guess I should have posted this to the ST vs SW section, however about a force substitution, replace the ISD with a eldar shadow cruiser

[starfury]

how about one of these vs the dominion dreadnought

[starfury]

[/code]

[Sea Skimmer]

Because the Dominion Battleship doesn't exist in Real Star Trek continuity, therefore it has to be Other Sci-Fi. Kind of like how any discussion using the Star Trek novels could only be held here, since they aren't canon Star Trek.

The Dominion battleship is quite real. It is the Dominion Dreadnought whose existence is doubted.

[Alyeska]

(sigh)

Ok, there are two Dominion ships commonly confused with eachother.

1.2km ship
5km ship

People call both the Dreadnaught and the Battelship, neither can agree to a name for one or the other.

So, there is the 1.2km ship that was seen in the DS9 episode Valiant. Then there was the 5km long ship that looks IDENTICAL to the 1.2km ship except for size that was seen only in the very last fleet shot of DS9.

The issue of the "two" ships is dealt with here.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/artic ... leship.htm

Simply put, the 5km ship was a CGI mistake.

[Sea Skimmer]

(sigh)

Ok, there are two Dominion ships commonly confused with eachother.

1.2km ship
5km ship

People call both the Dreadnaught and the Battelship, neither can agree to a name for one or the other.

So, there is the 1.2km ship that was seen in the DS9 episode Valiant. Then there was the 5km long ship that looks IDENTICAL to the 1.2km ship except for size that was seen only in the very last fleet shot of DS9.

The issue of the "two" ships is dealt with here.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/artic ... leship.htm

Simply put, the 5km ship was a CGI mistake.

Or they used an existing model to create something they wanted to be different. DS9 made massive use of stock footage. Sorry but everything but the fact that the two are not the same size is completely speculation.

[Alyeska]

(sigh)

Ok, there are two Dominion ships commonly confused with eachother.

1.2km ship
5km ship

People call both the Dreadnaught and the Battelship, neither can agree to a name for one or the other.

So, there is the 1.2km ship that was seen in the DS9 episode Valiant. Then there was the 5km long ship that looks IDENTICAL to the 1.2km ship except for size that was seen only in the very last fleet shot of DS9.

The issue of the "two" ships is dealt with here.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/artic ... leship.htm

Simply put, the 5km ship was a CGI mistake.

Or they used an existing model to create something they wanted to be different. DS9 made massive use of stock footage. Sorry but everything but the fact that the two are not the same size is completely speculation.

Except for the little fact that we see the 1.2km ship in that episode, and suddenly at the very end of the episode the 1.2km ship is suddenly NOWHERE to be seen and now we see the 5km ship and nothing else. Why did they not use the 5km ship earlier? Where did the 1.2km ship go?

If your going to argue size like that, then that means there are whole shitload of BoPs.

[Darth Wong]

Simply put, the 5km ship was a CGI mistake.

Why is it assumed on your reference site (Bernd Schneider's site IIRC; I have learned that he has become fond of flaming me behind my back even though I never mention him on my site or anywhere else) that when there is an apparent size discrepancy of a large-looking battleship behind a small-looking craft, the battleship must be really big as opposed to the small-looking craft being really small?

Given ship A, which is "known" to be 750m long from incident A and ship B, which is "known" to be 1200m long from incident B and a scene in which ship B appears to be 7 times longer than ship A, why is it assumed that ship A's size is fixed and ship B's size must change to fit the scene, as opposed to the other way around?

[Alyeska]

Simply put, the 5km ship was a CGI mistake.

Why is it assumed on your reference site (Bernd Schneider's site IIRC; I have learned that he has become fond of flaming me behind my back even though I never mention him on my site or anywhere else) that when there is an apparent size discrepancy of a large-looking battleship behind a small-looking craft, the battleship must be really big as opposed to the small-looking craft being really small?

Given ship A, which is "known" to be 750m long from incident A and ship B, which is "known" to be 1200m long from incident B and a scene in which ship B appears to be 7 times longer than ship A, why is it assumed that ship A's size is fixed and ship B's size must change to fit the scene, as opposed to the other way around?

B's size changing fits already established sizes, A's size changing or leaving the comparison as is goes against what has previously been seen. If such a 5km long ship existed, then it should have been seen before the last 5 seconds of CGI effects on the last episode of DS9. Combine that with the fact that the 1.2km long ship is well represented in the final battle, but it strangely not present in the last fleet shot, indicates that a mistake was made and the size of the 1.2km ship was mistakenly enlarged. That is not the first time such things have happened. As shown with the BoP we have seen multiple sizes of it (including one larger then the DS2), the Defiant has even been shown as VERY small compared to the E-E before.

Using the classic Ocams Razor, CGI mistake is simpler then the rationalization behind there being a completely new class that is 5km long.

[Master of Ossus]

Simply put, the 5km ship was a CGI mistake.

Why is it assumed on your reference site (Bernd Schneider's site IIRC; I have learned that he has become fond of flaming me behind my back even though I never mention him on my site or anywhere else) that when there is an apparent size discrepancy of a large-looking battleship behind a small-looking craft, the battleship must be really big as opposed to the small-looking craft being really small?

Given ship A, which is "known" to be 750m long from incident A and ship B, which is "known" to be 1200m long from incident B and a scene in which ship B appears to be 7 times longer than ship A, why is it assumed that ship A's size is fixed and ship B's size must change to fit the scene, as opposed to the other way around?

B's size changing fits already established sizes, A's size changing or leaving the comparison as is goes against what has previously been seen. If such a 5km long ship existed, then it should have been seen before the last 5 seconds of CGI effects on the last episode of DS9. Combine that with the fact that the 1.2km long ship is well represented in the final battle, but it strangely not present in the last fleet shot, indicates that a mistake was made and the size of the 1.2km ship was mistakenly enlarged. That is not the first time such things have happened. As shown with the BoP we have seen multiple sizes of it (including one larger then the DS2), the Defiant has even been shown as VERY small compared to the E-E before.

Using the classic Ocams Razor, CGI mistake is simpler then the rationalization behind there being a completely new class that is 5km long.

I think he was asking why we don't think that the cruiser in the background of those shots (the "5 kilometer one") is assumed to be 5 kilometers long, instead of assuming that it is 1.2 kilometers long, and that there is a smaller vessel with a very similar space frame that is about 1/7 the length. I think DW's analysis makes more sense, since ship models like that tend to scale down more easily than they scale up like that.

[Alyeska]

Why is it assumed on your reference site (Bernd Schneider's site IIRC; I have learned that he has become fond of flaming me behind my back even though I never mention him on my site or anywhere else) that when there is an apparent size discrepancy of a large-looking battleship behind a small-looking craft, the battleship must be really big as opposed to the small-looking craft being really small?

Given ship A, which is "known" to be 750m long from incident A and ship B, which is "known" to be 1200m long from incident B and a scene in which ship B appears to be 7 times longer than ship A, why is it assumed that ship A's size is fixed and ship B's size must change to fit the scene, as opposed to the other way around?

B's size changing fits already established sizes, A's size changing or leaving the comparison as is goes against what has previously been seen. If such a 5km long ship existed, then it should have been seen before the last 5 seconds of CGI effects on the last episode of DS9. Combine that with the fact that the 1.2km long ship is well represented in the final battle, but it strangely not present in the last fleet shot, indicates that a mistake was made and the size of the 1.2km ship was mistakenly enlarged. That is not the first time such things have happened. As shown with the BoP we have seen multiple sizes of it (including one larger then the DS2), the Defiant has even been shown as VERY small compared to the E-E before.

Using the classic Ocams Razor, CGI mistake is simpler then the rationalization behind there being a completely new class that is 5km long.

I think he was asking why we don't think that the cruiser in the background of those shots (the "5 kilometer one") is assumed to be 5 kilometers long, instead of assuming that it is 1.2 kilometers long, and that there is a smaller vessel with a very similar space frame that is about 1/7 the length. I think DW's analysis makes more sense, since ship models like that tend to scale down more easily than they scale up like that.

I know what DW meant. In order to assume the shot is correct (thus 5km is correct) you have to answer several questions and make many assumptions. On the other hand, CGI mistake is a very simple answer that answers all related questions or completely negates any possible questions.

[Howedar]

It is also an established error in Star Trek, unless we want BOPs that are hundreds of thousands of KM wide

[white_rabbit]

sorry I guess I should have posted this to the ST vs SW section, however about a force substitution, replace the ISD with a eldar shadow cruiser

dont be mean.

[Master of Ossus]

It is also an established error in Star Trek, unless we want BOPs that are hundreds of thousands of KM wide

No, we could have very small BoP and only moderately wide BoP.