Hand Phaser

[Lord of the Farce]

My take on the fountain of sparks flying from (or around, whatever) Leia's arm: Along the other Rebels on the mission, Leia should have (at the very least) been wearing some sort of protective clothing, something like Padme's battledress or a lighter version of what the Naboo security people were wearing.

Which outperforms Stormtrooper armor? I doubt it.
-snip
I don't see how anyone can claim that the jet of metallic sparks we see came from a human arm, especially when she wasn't seriously injured.

Excuse me, but where exactly in my post did I make the slightest implication that mere protective clothing would outperform Stormtrooper armour? I guess I have to spell out exactly what I was getting at:
A: Leia wore protective clothing.
B: Blaster bolt hit (grazed) Leia's arm.
A+B: Fountain of sparks fly from Leia's arm.

[Alyeska]

Leia didn't get hit, unless you think her arm is made of metal. She caught shrapnel blown from the wall just behind her.

You are very much incorrect. Leiha was hit cleanly on the side or her arm and no damage was done to the wall. All wall hit have incredibly bright blasts. On the other hand we see a small flash on her arm and nothing from the wall behind. She took the entire force of the hit.

Now, one explination is that as powerful as blasters are, since the Stormies aren't fighting people with armor, they have turned down the power to sufficent levels where body mass shots are a likely kill. Hit someone in the arm and you don't kill them.

Please explain what logical reason could be behind that! It's totally unsupported. Leia was hit by a glancing blow.

And yet the wall behind her took no damage. If Leia took a glancing blow then most of the shot would have hit the wall. That never happened. She took the full force of the shot.

[Connor MacLeod]

And yet the wall behind her took no damage. If Leia took a glancing blow then most of the shot would have hit the wall. That never happened. She took the full force of the shot.

And it doesnt occur to you that maybe the bunker has armor designed to shrug off a great deal of punishment (the possibility of it being shielded is not to be discounted either.) Why not just blow the door open then if blaster fire could damage it instead of wasting time trying to hotwire it? They had explosives.

For that matter, the door was hit a good many times in that battle (from the very poitn the ewoks started, in fact.,. you could see sparks against the bunker from blaster hits) and they didnt leave damage. This is explained by Ted's theory, I don't see how you're exactly explaining it.

You are very much incorrect. Leiha was hit cleanly on the side or her arm and no damage was done to the wall.

Did you not notice the SPARKS that flew from the hit? If the wall wasn't hit then, what was?

All wall hit have incredibly bright blasts.

based on?

On the other hand we see a small flash on her arm and nothing from the wall behind. She took the entire force of the hit.

[/quote]

The bolt hit the edge of the bunker she was taking cover behind, not behind her. For that matter you can't really see behind her, either.

Now, one explination is that as powerful as blasters are, since the Stormies aren't fighting people with armor, they have turned down the power to sufficent levels where body mass shots are a likely kill. Hit someone in the arm and you don't kill them.

Or they may have decided to try to take them alive and went for simply wounding rather than killing shots. Since they didnt shoot them the first time they were captured, It seems likely they were meant to be taken alive (quite probably used to torment Luke, knowing Palpy.) In any case, this still doesn't explain the sparks we see when hit, unless as Ted says, you think Leia has a metal arm or something. The fact we see sparks from numerous other blaster hits to the bunker or parts of it further supports his idea.

[Alyeska]

And it doesnt occur to you that maybe the bunker has armor designed to shrug off a great deal of punishment (the possibility of it being shielded is not to be discounted either.) Why not just blow the door open then if blaster fire could damage it instead of wasting time trying to hotwire it? They had explosives.

For that matter, the door was hit a good many times in that battle (from the very poitn the ewoks started, in fact.,. you could see sparks against the bunker from blaster hits) and they didnt leave damage. This is explained by Ted's theory, I don't see how you're exactly explaining it.

The door and bunker were hit multiple times both before and after Leia was hit. Every time it was hit there was a flash that was significantly brighter then when Leia was hit.

Did you not notice the SPARKS that flew from the hit? If the wall wasn't hit then, what was?

Her arm.

based on?

Bassed on the fact that all clear hits to the bunker had flashes much brighter then when Leia was hit.

The bolt hit the edge of the bunker she was taking cover behind, not behind her. For that matter you can't really see behind her, either.

No, the bolt hit her. I have the fucking movie infront of me and have watched it a half dozen times. She was hit, nothing else.

Or they may have decided to try to take them alive and went for simply wounding rather than killing shots. Since they didnt shoot them the first time they were captured, It seems likely they were meant to be taken alive (quite probably used to torment Luke, knowing Palpy.) In any case, this still doesn't explain the sparks we see when hit, unless as Ted says, you think Leia has a metal arm or something. The fact we see sparks from numerous other blaster hits to the bunker or parts of it further supports his idea.

Given the angle of the shot, the ONLY place that the sparks could come from is her arm. That they want to wound does make sense though.

[Sunstreaker]

The bolt hit the edge of the bunker she was taking cover behind, not behind her. For that matter you can't really see behind her, either.

No, the bolt hit her. I have the fucking movie infront of me and have watched it a half dozen times. She was hit, nothing else.

I'll conferm that. The bolt in question hit Leia's arm and and not the bunker.

[Alyeska]

FYI Connor and I have discussed this a bit. We've come to the uneasy conclussion that the example has multiple possibilities.

[Lord Poe]

Of course, like many of his pages, Darkstar aped mine, and even stole the image off my website when I compared the Leia hit to Crusher's burning arm hit in "Datalore" (oh, and she wasn't 'blown to pieces' either, BTW).

Why would the phaser in "Conspiracy" be set at an extreme low power? No reason at all; both sides intended to kill each other. Why would the blaster be set at low power in ROTJ? Because the Stormtroopers were taking hostages, not killing them.

[Chris OFarrell]

Why would the phaser in "Conspiracy" be set at an extreme low power? No reason at all; both sides intended to kill each other. Why would the blaster be set at low power in ROTJ? Because the Stormtroopers were taking hostages, not killing them.

I don't necessarly have a problem with the idea of variable power settings being used on the blasters, but I can see no reason whatsoever to claim the shot against Leia was a deliberate low power shot. If they wanted them alive, E-11's have highly effective stun settings and they were well within stun range. They were in the middle of an all out battle, this is the time to kill your enemy, not scorch them.

They then did try to take them prisoner it is true, but that was when Han abandoned his position and no-one was watching, allowing a couple of stormtroopers to close in, probably deciding to capture them when the opportunity presented itself, rather then a premeditated move. I mean we see in ANH that they have no problems at all with just setting for stun and blasting away when under such orders. My guess is a couple of Troopers were going for promotions with the capture of some high ranking Rebels at apparently minimal risk when the opportunity presented itself. The setup wasn't deliberate, just luck. And it is at least possible the blaster settings used were somewhat low to avoid blasting the bunker electronics behind Han and Leia. If that glancing hit hit hit Leia dead on, it probably would have killed her without needless messy work.



Oh and I always assumed in 'Conspiriacy' that Riker and Picard opened fire with their phasers, then when initialy they didn't get major progress (read explosions) on the aliens, they simply ramped up the power until they got a nice messy explosion.

[PainRack]

I don't necessarly have a problem with the idea of variable power settings being used on the blasters, but I can see no reason whatsoever to claim the shot against Leia was a deliberate low power shot. If they wanted them alive, E-11's have highly effective stun settings and they were well within stun range. They were in the middle of an all out battle, this is the time to kill your enemy, not scorch them.

They then did try to take them prisoner it is true, but that was when Han abandoned his position and no-one was watching, allowing a couple of stormtroopers to close in, probably deciding to capture them when the opportunity presented itself, rather then a premeditated move. I mean we see in ANH that they have no problems at all with just setting for stun and blasting away when under such orders. My guess is a couple of Troopers were going for promotions with the capture of some high ranking Rebels at apparently minimal risk when the opportunity presented itself. The setup wasn't deliberate, just luck. And it is at least possible the blaster settings used were somewhat low to avoid blasting the bunker electronics behind Han and Leia. If that glancing hit hit hit Leia dead on, it probably would have killed her without needless messy work.
.

The easiest explaination is also the simplest explaination. Blaster carbines are automatically set on a low setting, that would incapacitate a normal opponent so as to maximise shots per power pack. Its the exact same reason why some armies use 5.56 MGs instead of 7.62. Lighter weight vs lesser firepower.

[Sarevok]

Of course, like many of his pages, Darkstar aped mine, and even stole the image off my website when I compared the Leia hit to Crusher's burning arm hit in "Datalore" (oh, and she wasn't 'blown to pieces' either, BTW).

Why would the phaser in "Conspiracy" be set at an extreme low power? No reason at all; both sides intended to kill each other. Why would the blaster be set at low power in ROTJ? Because the Stormtroopers were taking hostages, not killing them.

Good point.

[Lord Poe]

I don't necessarly have a problem with the idea of variable power settings being used on the blasters, but I can see no reason whatsoever to claim the shot against Leia was a deliberate low power shot.

STORMTROOPER: "Freeze. Don't move."

As always, seems pretty clear cut.

They then did try to take them prisoner it is true, but that was when Han abandoned his position and no-one was watching, allowing a couple of stormtroopers to close in, probably deciding to capture them when the opportunity presented itself, rather then a premeditated move.

I see. Did Vader say "kill the Rebels?" No, he didn't.

VADER: Good work, Commander. Conduct your search and bring his companions to me.

That sounds like excellent grounds for premeditated capture of such high profile Rebels such as Han Solo and Princess Leia. Not to mention the fact that they were initially taken prisoner (and not shot on sight) before the Ewoks attacked.

I mean we see in ANH that they have no problems at all with just setting for stun and blasting away when under such orders.

That was a different situation. They weren't in a firefight with hostile natives and general Rebel infantry (read: not Solo, Leia, Chewbacca, Lando, etc.) You think they'll be switching back and forth between stun and "wound" in the middle of all that?

My guess is a couple of Troopers were going for promotions with the capture of some high ranking Rebels at apparently minimal risk when the opportunity presented itself. The setup wasn't deliberate, just luck.

Chris...watch the movie.

And it is at least possible the blaster settings used were somewhat low to avoid blasting the bunker electronics behind Han and Leia. If that glancing hit hit hit Leia dead on, it probably would have killed her without needless messy work.

No evidence of such a thing, or else Solo would have blasted the door open. And in the new SW Insider, it states that even a direct hit by the AT-ST Chewbacca commandeered would not have gotten through.

Oh and I always assumed in 'Conspiriacy' that Riker and Picard opened fire with their phasers, then when initialy they didn't get major progress (read explosions) on the aliens, they simply ramped up the power until they got a nice messy explosion.

And how do you explain the fact that the alien shot at them, and didn't even scratch the paint on the wall behind them with his phaser blast?

http://h4h.com/louis/holo/slowphaser.mov

[Connor MacLeod]

When I was discussing this with Alyeska, I also ended up noticing that if you do a frame by frame of the scene in question, when we start to see the sparking near Leia, she does not react at all to the sparks/hit for around 8-10 frames (I mean her expression does not change, does not register surprise or pain or even start to flinch.) - As I told Alyeska, I find it quite difficult to believe that Leia would not react for what amounts to a full third to nearly half a second in ANY way whatsoever if she were hit by the bolt.

[Connor MacLeod]

To add to what Wayne said, lack of stunning is not neccesarily proof that they were not ordered to take them alive. They could have stunned them the first time they were caught (in fact that would have been a very good idea, woudl it not?) or even before they gained cover. For that matter, the minute Han was distracted by Leia's injury, why didn't they stun them rather than shouting "freeze!" (For that matter, why not just shoot them both if they wanted to kill them? Much easier and less risky.)

[Lord of the Farce]

And it is at least possible the blaster settings used were somewhat low to avoid blasting the bunker electronics behind Han and Leia.

But what would have happened if they did hit the bunker electronics? It probably would have inconvenienced the Imperials outside as it would have made any as yet unactivated doors to make the bunker even more secure, but that seem to be about it.

[Darth Wong]

The problem with the stormtroopers in that mission may have been that they didn't have the right mission objectives. From their conduct (particularly the fact that they allowed the Rebels to infiltrate the base before springing their trap), it appears that they were told that their primary objective was the live capture of the Rebels, when in fact they should have been told that their primary objective was the protection of the base.

[Kamakazie Sith]

STORMTROOPER: "Freeze. Don't move."

As always, seems pretty clear cut.

And how do you explain the fact that the alien shot at them, and didn't even scratch the paint on the wall behind them with his phaser blast?

http://h4h.com/louis/holo/slowphaser.mov

What about the rebels and the effect of their weapons on Imperial Officers? I'm pretty sure they weren't under orders to capture Imperial Officers.

As for the paint on the wall, we can't see it because of it being behind the picture. Thus we have no idea of how much damage was caused to the wall.

[Darth Wong]

STORMTROOPER: "Freeze. Don't move."

As always, seems pretty clear cut.

And how do you explain the fact that the alien shot at them, and didn't even scratch the paint on the wall behind them with his phaser blast?

http://h4h.com/louis/holo/slowphaser.mov

What about the rebels and the effect of their weapons on Imperial Officers? I'm pretty sure they weren't under orders to capture Imperial Officers.

As for the paint on the wall, we can't see it because of it being behind the picture. Thus we have no idea of how much damage was caused to the wall.

Metrion Cascade brought up an interesting point in another thread: a lightsabre melts a substantial portion of a blast door in TPM but it doesn't make people blow up.

[Kamakazie Sith]

STORMTROOPER: "Freeze. Don't move."

As always, seems pretty clear cut.

And how do you explain the fact that the alien shot at them, and didn't even scratch the paint on the wall behind them with his phaser blast?

http://h4h.com/louis/holo/slowphaser.mov

What about the rebels and the effect of their weapons on Imperial Officers? I'm pretty sure they weren't under orders to capture Imperial Officers.

As for the paint on the wall, we can't see it because of it being behind the picture. Thus we have no idea of how much damage was caused to the wall.

Metrion Cascade brought up an interesting point in another thread: a lightsabre melts a substantial portion of a blast door in TPM but it doesn't make people blow up.

Yes, I was just looking at that thread. It is possible then that that poor thermal conductivity of human flesh is the reason why people don't explode when hit by blaster fire?

Also, regarding the painting. What would happen to the material of a painting if a focused beam of energy like a phaser hit it? Would it just burn straight through and transfer very little heat to the surrounding material or should have it turned the entire painting to ash?

[Lord Poe]

What about the rebels and the effect of their weapons on Imperial Officers? I'm pretty sure they weren't under orders to capture Imperial Officers.

Exactly which example are you talking about? Is there an Imperial officer in ROTJ that shrugged off a blaster bolt?

As for the paint on the wall, we can't see it because of it being behind the picture. Thus we have no idea of how much damage was caused to the wall.

Right. Even though there are several examples of phasers set to kill not leaving a mark on a wall. (The TNG ep "Legacy"with Yar's sister is a good example.)

[Kamakazie Sith]

Exactly which example are you talking about? Is there an Imperial officer in ROTJ that shrugged off a blaster bolt?

One example that comes to mind is Leia shooting an officer who was standing on top of an AT-ST, this is right after the Ewoks create the diversion.

Right. Even though there are several examples of phasers set to kill not leaving a mark on a wall. (The TNG ep "Legacy"with Yar's sister is a good example.)

Was that a rock wall or a heavy metal wall I don't recall? However, if you have better examples then please do share. The fact remains that the example in TNG "Conspiracy" isn't that great.....especially when one considers what happens to the man at the end.

[Isolder74]

With her light sporting Blaster too


Hardly a high power weapon!

[InnocentBystander]

Perhaps the painting was shielded

[Mange]

Perhaps the painting was shielded

[Kamakazie Sith]

With her light sporting Blaster too


Hardly a high power weapon!

If you have some information concerning that blaster then perhaps you should share it. Afterall she was involved in a military operation and you're claiming she took a light sporting blaster?

[Isolder74]

Only that its the same weapon she used in ANH against the stormtroopers.. It appears to have had just enough power to simply drop someone. It didn't blow a hole in the Armor like the other blasters have done. Han took his favorite gun what is wrong with Leia doing it. HEr blaster appears to be only low power

The only source I can find is the Star Wars Role Playing Game that list it as slightly above lethal levels
3d+2 in WEG vs 5d fo the ST Rifle(WEG)

So she brouht a conceelable weapon and it appears it didn't get confiscated
when they were captured.