The distance of a parsec in the Star Wars galaxy

[Knife]

We don't know that much about the how the society worked on Geonosis before Episode II. If a few strangers landed on Geonosis (they could have been sympatetic with the Trade Federation), it's quite possible that the Geonosians would have had a bit of fun with them, in let's say... an arena?
However, this is off-topic.

I don't see why. This is before the CIS. Since Geonosis was with the Sepertists, it is likely that they were part of the Republic before hand. The Naboo-ians were fleeing to the Republic and not on some spy mission. Landing at the spaceport for repairs would not give the Geonosians any reason to fuck with them unles they were already in leauge with the Trade Federation, but I doubt that.

Dooku mentions that he hooked up with the Trade Fed's after the Battle of Naboo so even if Geonosis was already in leauge with Dooku,(which at this point was either just out of the Jedi Order or on his way out) I don't see why they would be privy to Trade Fed/Sidious plans on Naboo.

[Knife]

It could be that nobody cares about factory planets. Obi-Wan could have also been looking for starports specifically, and Tatooine certainly qualifies in that category above Geonosis.

Besides, I like my "airport/electronics factory" analogy.

I thought it was funny too, but it doesn't work out. If Geonosis is a heavily industrialized planet, then it would have to have a starport or two or three or..........

It makes little sence to build a shit load of equipment or product and not be able to ship it out to distributors and customers.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Don't forget that Geonosis' starports would most likely be for industrial/commercial purposes. GE doesn't let you park in their truck bay, do they?

Checked to confirm whether Geonosis was fully part of the Republic, and the Inside the Worlds EII book describes the planet as "unregulated."

[ClaysGhost]

Still works for my purposes though. There are a handfull of stars within ~1 parsec from Sol. So having a handfull of stars ~1 parsec from Tatooine is not unreasonable.

Strongly agree

As far as habitable planet separation goes, we really have no idea how such planets are distributed (and Tatooine seems at the unpleasant end of habitable). I don't think there has to be any problem with two habitable planets being located so near to each other - was Tatooine colonised or did native technological societies appear there?

EDIT: Okay, SW light years are actually only 1.0072 times greater than ours:
...

Excellent - thanks. Is the mass of Coruscant's parent star known? If it isn't, I think there is enough information here to estimate it (and through that the luminosity).

[Spanky The Dolphin]

As far as habitable planet separation goes, we really have no idea how such planets are distributed (and Tatooine seems at the unpleasant end of habitable). I don't think there has to be any problem with two habitable planets being located so near to each other - was Tatooine colonised or did native technological societies appear there?

Tatooine was colonised in two waves: first was 5000 years BBY, and the second 900 years BBY. It's possible that the Tusken Raiders are part of an even older lost colonisation attempt, though.

Additionally, only a small portion of the planet's northern hemisphere is habitable, which could also account for it's rather low population.

Excellent - thanks. Is the mass of Coruscant's parent star known? If it isn't, I think there is enough information here to estimate it (and through that the luminosity).

You can check here:
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/orbs.html#coruscant

EDIT: Coruscant's star is 3.53 solar masses.

[Knife]

Don't forget that Geonosis' starports would most likely be for industrial/commercial purposes. GE doesn't let you park in their truck bay, do they?

Checked to confirm whether Geonosis was fully part of the Republic, and the Inside the Worlds EII book describes the planet as "unregulated."

Would that make it akin to Tatooine, where technically they are part of the Republic or atleast in Republic teritory yet not worth administrating nor policing?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I don't know. Ball's still in my court, though.

[Knife]

I don't know. Ball's still in my court, though.

Um, wouldn't that be 'the balls in your court' since theoritically you covered your part and now its mine turn to take a swing at my part?

Any way, your assumption relies on the notion that Geonosis is a Goverment Contractor or the whole planet is so secret in their bussiness that offworlders would be in trouble if they landed there.

Geonosis was probably that way right before the start of the Clone Wars but ten years before (even if they started ploting with Dooku at this early point) wouldn't have been so hostile at such important refugees.

They're industry would need an infrastructure for import/export and unless they were totally nationalized (as in Geonosian) there would be various different kinds of ships and races landing and taking off from the surface. These cargo ships would not only be for shipping finished product but also delievering raw material. Not all of them would need to be in high secure locations.

The cargo ships would need maintanence and the crew some sort of facilities for refreshing or sleeping or eating. Thus the niche for a small intergalactic comunity or atleast a part of a starport that is friendly or tolerant to other species would be or could be found.

I really don't see why even if Geonosis was being recruited into the early plot at that time, they'd bring unwanted attension to themselves by detaining or executing a Planetary leader and a couple of Jedi. Geonosis would have easily the facilities to fix the ship and perhaps the civilian spaceports to do it. Being more industrialized, they'd probably have multitudes of parts for the ship and even a better exchange rate and type that took Republic credits since I'm sure they pay credits for raw material.

[Robert Treder]

Although the CIS hadn't yet been founded, the TradeFed was still one of the Geonosian Foundry's best customers. Not only would the Jedi run the risk of the TradeFed putting out an APB for the Queen's arrest that the Geonosians might answer, but likely many of the merchants on Geonosis would be TradeFed representatives who may have been informed by the Viceroy to keep an eye out.

Basically, Knife, your argument hinges on the assumption that Geonosis was friendly to the Republic, which is not a safe bet given their business and their customers.

The Jedi went to Tatooine because it would be easier to hide there than on Geonosis.

[Knife]

Basically, Knife, your argument hinges on the assumption that Geonosis was friendly to the Republic, which is not a safe bet given their business and their customers.

The Jedi went to Tatooine because it would be easier to hide there than on Geonosis.

Actually, my original argument is that Geonosis being so close to Tatooine should have been mentioned as an alternitive to Tatooine, in Ep I. The fact that it wasn't in that it was only a parsec away make it seem weird.

And what is your proof that the Geonosians were such good friends with the Trade Federation ten years before the Sepertist movment? Cunstomers? Yes. But I don't think that automatically makes them part of the overall masterplan of the Trade Federation nor a significant part of Sidious's plan at that point.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Tusken Raiders were once human. They are the descendants of a servile slave race of humans that were twisted by the Rakata (of the Infinite Empire and the StarForge).

[Robert Treder]

And what is your proof that the Geonosians were such good friends with the Trade Federation ten years before the Sepertist movment? Cunstomers? Yes. But I don't think that automatically makes them part of the overall masterplan of the Trade Federation nor a significant part of Sidious's plan at that point.

I didn't say that the Geonosians were part of Palpatine's plan, I said that the TradeFed was one of their best customers (which you can tell by the fact that the TradeFed uses millions of Geonosian droids in TPM). And the Jedi, wanting to lay low, were wise to stay away. There wasn't a guarantee that the Geonosians would tip off the TradeFed, but it would be a distinct possibility.

And sure, Qui-Gon could have gone to Geonosis and commandeered a freighter, thus returning to Coruscant quickly. He could have done the same on Tatooine, but that clearly isn't his M.O.

[hvb]

a regression back to the title of the thread:
a parallax in arc seconds or parsec is defined as [parallax in arc seconds]^-1, and works out to be 206.265 AU {Astronomy Today 4th Ed, Chaisson & McMillan, 2002} ~3.26 lightyears. Now the parsec is defined for the Earth-Sol system (hence the AUs), and is a constant distance, not dependant on where you measure it. (e.g. a satelite orbiting Jupiter would have greater resolusion due to the larger orbit, but the results would be recalibered into Earth-Sol parsecs, not published in "Jovian parsec" ) so as the SW dialogue AFAIK said "parsec" not "standard parsec" or "Coruscantian parsec" I would have to go with the 3.26 lightyears.
After all we assume that all other dialogue is translated from the SW lingua franca to english, including conversion of lenghts to the metric system (and other scales as well, e.g. "17 decimal 28" is generally accepted to be 17.28 km), so what reason is there not to assume the same was done for this particular length scale
ergo: A parsec is a parsec is a parsec as defined from Earth orbit, unless otherwise noted!
I'm sorry for your nice calculations, but there is no evidence in the Canon that they have altered the parsec scale by a factor 1.52, so we must perforce accept that the parsec still holds its definition value of 206.265 times the Earth-Sol distance. (unless evidence appears in Ep. III of course)

[Drooling Iguana]

Sill there are some problems with this value. Did not Padme say that Genosis is less than a parsec away from Tatoon ? If a parsec is 4.95 light years that seems way too close.

Maybe she was referring to the amount of time it would take to travel there.

*ducks*

[Mange]

a regression back to the title of the thread:
a parallax in arc seconds or parsec is defined as [parallax in arc seconds]^-1, and works out to be 206.265 AU {Astronomy Today 4th Ed, Chaisson & McMillan, 2002} ~3.26 lightyears. Now the parsec is defined for the Earth-Sol system (hence the AUs), and is a constant distance, not dependant on where you measure it. (e.g. a satelite orbiting Jupiter would have greater resolusion due to the larger orbit, but the results would be recalibered into Earth-Sol parsecs, not published in "Jovian parsec" ) so as the SW dialogue AFAIK said "parsec" not "standard parsec" or "Coruscantian parsec" I would have to go with the 3.26 lightyears.
After all we assume that all other dialogue is translated from the SW lingua franca to english, including conversion of lenghts to the metric system (and other scales as well, e.g. "17 decimal 28" is generally accepted to be 17.28 km), so what reason is there not to assume the same was done for this particular length scale
ergo: A parsec is a parsec is a parsec as defined from Earth orbit, unless otherwise noted!
I'm sorry for your nice calculations, but there is no evidence in the Canon that they have altered the parsec scale by a factor 1.52, so we must perforce accept that the parsec still holds its definition value of 206.265 times the Earth-Sol distance. (unless evidence appears in Ep. III of course)

Your reasoning is correct, albeit flawed. As you correctly point out, a parsec is based on the Earth's orbit, not any other planet in the solar system. Thus, "a parsec is a parsec" for as long as the Solar system is the norm. An astronomical unit is the same as the distance between the Earth and the Sun (149,597,870.691). From the (canon) book Inside the Worlds of Episode I, we learn that Coruscant orbits its sun at a distance between 207 million and 251 million kilometers. This means that the mean distance is 229 million kilometers. If we assume that the Star Wars galaxy uses the same units of measurement that we do (and that Coruscant is the norm), this would of course mean that an AU would be ~229 million kilometers. There is nothing that says that they wouldn't use meters or any other units of measurement, but to my knowledge, this is the only case where an orbit is specifically specified in canon (note, all degrees of canon).

EDIT: Anyway, it was good seeing a neighbor on these boards, HVB.

[hvb]

Your reasoning is correct, albeit flawed. ... From the (canon) book Inside the Worlds of Episode I, we learn that Coruscant orbits its sun at a distance between 207 million and 251 million kilometers. This means that the mean distance is 229 million kilometers. If we assume that the Star Wars galaxy uses the same units of measurement that we do (and that Coruscant is the norm), this would of course mean that an AU would be ~229 million kilometers. There is nothing that says that they wouldn't use meters or any other units of measurement, but to my knowledge, this is the only case where an orbit is specifically specified in canon (note, all degrees of canon).

Inside the Worlds of Ep1 is canon? I would say official, as it is not a novellization/comics of Ep1, nor the script for said movie.

The point is though, that all other words in the dialogue appear to be translated to their nearest english equivalents, and the metrics are translated to S.I. or other "earthly" form.

The parsec should not form the one and only exception to this without a better reason then data being available to create an exact measure in the SW universe.

That would be equivalent to claiming that if Inside the World of Ep1 gives a polar circumferance for Corucant (or rotational time and equatorial circumferance/radius) we should recalculate the metre for the SW universe to a 40 millionth of the polar circumferance of Coruscant. (with resulting scaling of the hights of the actors in the movies?? ).

In my post I did allow to the interpretation that if the dialogue said "standard" [metric of choice] or "Coruscantian" [same] than a SW Universe-derived scale would be appropriate. Whereas if the dialogue said [metric], without any reservations mentioned, then the metric involved must have been translated to the english/real life unit definitions along with all the remaining statements/expressions of the dialogue. Right?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

It is regarded as being equal to the ICS books, which are Canon.

[Mange]

Your reasoning is correct, albeit flawed. ... From the (canon) book Inside the Worlds of Episode I, we learn that Coruscant orbits its sun at a distance between 207 million and 251 million kilometers. This means that the mean distance is 229 million kilometers. If we assume that the Star Wars galaxy uses the same units of measurement that we do (and that Coruscant is the norm), this would of course mean that an AU would be ~229 million kilometers. There is nothing that says that they wouldn't use meters or any other units of measurement, but to my knowledge, this is the only case where an orbit is specifically specified in canon (note, all degrees of canon).

Inside the Worlds of Ep1 is canon? I would say official, as it is not a novellization/comics of Ep1, nor the script for said movie.

The point is though, that all other words in the dialogue appear to be translated to their nearest english equivalents, and the metrics are translated to S.I. or other "earthly" form.

The parsec should not form the one and only exception to this without a better reason then data being available to create an exact measure in the SW universe.

That would be equivalent to claiming that if Inside the World of Ep1 gives a polar circumferance for Corucant (or rotational time and equatorial circumferance/radius) we should recalculate the metre for the SW universe to a 40 millionth of the polar circumferance of Coruscant. (with resulting scaling of the hights of the actors in the movies?? ).

In my post I did allow to the interpretation that if the dialogue said "standard" [metric of choice] or "Coruscantian" [same] than a SW Universe-derived scale would be appropriate. Whereas if the dialogue said [metric], without any reservations mentioned, then the metric involved must have been translated to the english/real life unit definitions along with all the remaining statements/expressions of the dialogue. Right?

The canon debate is getting somewhat tiresome. Star Wars Insider explicitly states the following:

"The first two Incredible Cross-Sections books were conceived to explore bold new territory in the Star Wars universe, taking a rare look inside more vehicles and vessels than we had ever seen before, and doing in in unprecidented detail. These books would represent the most thorough research ever done on these vehicles and would receive Lucasfilm's formal imprimatur as canon. These volumes would henceforth be sent out to licensees as reference guides and would become useful manuals for Industrial Light & Magic, where some of the artwork influenced details in Episodes I and II.

Since the Inside the Worlds... books were conceived somewhat later (and they use the highest canon sources) they enjoy the same canon status as the ICS-books. Of course, they're not the highest canon, but lesser canon. This aren't locations that were made up from scratch, but locations used in the movies, deal with it. And, to make a long rebuttal short, I see no contradiction in the use of the Metric system in the Star Wars galaxy. Perhaps the scientists on Coruscant arrived at the same conclusions as the French did in 1792 !

[Isolder74]

I think Lucasfilm said that Geonosis won't be in EIII.

I'm not going to address the first Ben-Luke thing, since that seems trivial. But as for not mentioning Geonosis in EI: probably because Tatooine is a spaceport while Geonosis is an industrial factory. It's like comparing an airport to an electronics factory.

And it is obviously controled by the trade federation! I wonder why Obi-Wan would not mention it!

That would be the LAST place I would want to take the Queen. Also explains The guard's adversion to taking ing the Queen to Tatooine if it is so close to a TF World

[Col. Crackpot]

parsecs are time measurements in the SW galaxy. it's cannon so

[YT300000]

parsecs are time measurements in the SW galaxy. it's cannon so

The Kessel Run is a navigational challenge!!!!

[hvb]

parsecs are time measurements in the SW galaxy. it's cannon so

So are meters in real life:

the "meter" or "metre" is based on the speed of light in a vacuum (a constant of nature) and the S.I. time unit "second", the latter of which is based on the transition time between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of cesium-133.

Hence the meter, and all lengths based upon it, are time measurements (incidently including the parsec).

[hvb]

The canon debate is getting somewhat tiresome. Star Wars Insider explicitly states the following:

"The first two Incredible Cross-Sections books were conceived to explore bold new territory in the Star Wars universe, taking a rare look inside more vehicles and vessels than we had ever seen before, and doing in in unprecidented detail. These books would represent the most thorough research ever done on these vehicles and would receive Lucasfilm's formal imprimatur as canon. These volumes would henceforth be sent out to licensees as reference guides and would become useful manuals for Industrial Light & Magic, where some of the artwork influenced details in Episodes I and II.

Since the Inside the Worlds... books were conceived somewhat later (and they use the highest canon sources) they enjoy the same canon status as the ICS-books. Of course, they're not the highest canon, but lesser canon. This aren't locations that were made up from scratch, but locations used in the movies, deal with it. And, to make a long rebuttal short, I see no contradiction in the use of the Metric system in the Star Wars galaxy. Perhaps the scientists on Coruscant arrived at the same conclusions as the French did in 1792 !

OK if they are canon, they are canon. (but see the beginnings segment below)

Incidently the French send people to measure the mountains in both Peru & Sweden after they found their initial measurements to give an Earth with a narrower waist rather then the theoregically assumed (and now proven) rotation induced bulging waist.
[a tangent into the history of measuring the length of one degree, which then could be used to find the full 360 degree polar-orbital respectively equatorial circumface.]

Anyway: you would also need to assume that they split the unit circle into 4 quadrants which they subdivide in 90 equal parts to be split in 60 equal segments each again divided in 60 (and decided to call this value of ~2,4e-6 radians ... a second? something whith "sec" for its first syllable anyhow); oh, and lastly that the conversion from meters to miles is the same in the SW universe as here.
(or that any deviations from the above cancel out of course)


Lets rather go back to the beginnings:

I say: (to use a Newton-ism)
"The units used in both, and indeed all such, sources are translated from whatever units exist in the SW 'Basic' language to their most appropriate common use english units, with appropriate rescaling of values.
Thus the parsec is indeed a parsec while the mile & metre is indeed such, since they have already been translated into such for the benefit of any readers/listeners who do not command 'Basic' and the unit system supported by said language."

This way there is no conflict: no matter what an in-universe "parsec" is called or how long or short it is, when we hear or see "parsec", "mile", "Joule" or any other unit being referred to in SW, it has already been converted, thus obviating any need for further conversion.

The whole "what is a SW parsec" issue is based on the assumption that they translate the unit name (into parsec) without rescaling the value (from 1), which is highly unlikely. either I translate "3 metres" to "10 feet" or keep them "3 metres", I don't translate them as "3 feet". Nor do I think Lucas does.

So when Anakin says "within a parsec" that is perforce a translated distance.

Similarly (and to go off on another Red Herring-seeming tangent) "Turbolaser" would appear to be the closest commonplace-word construct that could be found to describe whatever it really is, or at any rate is called, in 'Basic'.
In this case we are however talking names for concepts, not units like length or time, so the language barrier kicks in: just because "Turbolaser" is the closest english word construct does not make it at all close, as the Turbolaser Pages etc. shows with all clarity.
In the situation of length scales however it is possible to convert without any great loss of information (as long as the significant number of digits is observed). So if they translate 'whatever it is called in Basic' to "Turbolaser" there is no reason to believe they didn't translate the unit of length in question to good old-fashioned run off-the-mill english parsec.

(sorry, this got a lot longer then I initially intended)

[Mange]

Well, HVB, you've proven that you know your history, but not common sense. I will summarize my thinking (as well as my earlier posts) to make it simple. We know the radius of Coruscant's orbit. Therefore it is quite simple, by using trigonometry, to calculate the distance of a parsec based on its orbit. This means that we'll have to assume that Coruscant is the basis of all measurements in the Star Wars galaxy. I'll also make the assumption that the SI units (units of length, power etc) are the same as on Earth (regardless of how the people in the SW galaxy calculated them). I can't see why a different value of the parsec is so controversial as it can't be the same as for Earth. I'm sure Lucas didn't bother exactly what he meant with the distance of a parsec as Star Wars isn't science fiction, but rather fantasy (if you can tell the difference of course). I don't think that the writers of Star Trek can tell the distance of a parsec either.

EDIT: By the way, I'm not sure if suspension of disbelief allows what you suggested:

So when Anakin says "within a parsec" that is perforce a translated distance.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Standard measurements are based from Coruscant. Additionally, Standard gravity in SW is also different from that of Real Life because of the differences in Coruscant's size and density: 13.93 m/s^2, or 1.389x Earth gravity.

The value of the kilogram is not effected because it is based on mass rather than weight.