An ISD in the Hands of the United Federation of Planets?

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-04-14 09:29pm

This is sort of a spin off of the ISD in the US’ hands. But this is still a curious question. After the Dominion war the Feds seemed a little greedier with a hint of a dark side. So you may find some of the factors the same as the US.

I use the Feds because we know that the Romulans and Klingons would more then likely use it for war. But the Feds are different, they have a small dark side but that nagging goody goody thing.

What if the United Federation of Planets got its hands on an ISD in perfect condition in orbit around mars? They are able to board it and take it over.

* Lets say (for the sake of the thread) that the UFP has all the knowledge they would need to run and operate the ship.

*They cannot build anything else that is Imperial ie. torpedoes, weapons, droids, ect, due to the advanced nature of these weapons.

*Fed redshirts would fill a small part of the ranks of the ships; all of the men have the necessary knowledge they need to do their jobs.

*The ISD has all of the ground/space forces they would normally have (20 ATATs, 30 ATSTs, and enough armor/weapons for 9,700 troops.)

*The ISD has a complete complement of droids (security, protocol, ect.)

How would the UFP use this newfound treasure? Would they use it to travel the galaxy, explore new places, or would the Fed use its new war force to help conquer their new neighbors in the GQ and DQ? Please keep an open mind about the things I ask of you, such as the belief that the Federation can fully understand all the systems and all things aboard the ships, along with being able to command the ship and all ground/space forces with the full understanding of the systems.

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2004-04-14 09:59pm

On the one hand, part of me thinks they would promptly lose it to the gaseous anomaly/wormhole/space beastie/horror of the week.... But maybe I'm being cynical

If someone like Section 31 got their hands on it, they might hide it quickly as their ultimate weapon to be used in time of war against the Federation, rather than let every other spacefaring race see the monster, with most of them drooling with envy (and wanting to acquire it for their own purposes...)

You say they cannot build anything Imperial-tech; does this mean at some point the ship is going to run into a consumables problem with Tibanna Gas and Hypermatter fuel? As well as spare parts for the starfighters, shuttles, and landing barges, etc etc.

Plus, you'd need to spend time training the pilots of the support ships and fighters to be stick-and-rudder men again, instead of pilot-by-typing

Vohu Manah · Post by **Vohu Manah** » 2004-04-14 10:05pm

Why do I see them turning the thing into an independently operating, long-range exploration vessel? Or better yet, assign a new special defense unit and keep it at home?

I apologize in advance for basically repeating much of the content I read on this site below:

Either option would work since the ISD could more than defend itself in that universe from almost any threat (it's glaring weakness in both Star Wars and Star Trek is the placement and static nature of the main heavy weapon batteries, which make overwhelming the ship with a large number of vessels easier; the lighter weapons I believe are turret mounted, which is almost opposite of any US Navy or other terrestrial modern warship that mounts heavy guns), and it's hyperdrive allows the ship to travel anywhere in short order (all you may would need is a new sensor suite tuned for exploration purposes, leaving the existing sensor systems in place for combat purposes). That same speed and firepower would also make the ISD the ultimate response force for defensive purposes, or as the vanguard for an offensive operation.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-04-15 02:20am

Vohu Manah wrote: placement and static nature of the main heavy weapon batteries, which make overwhelming the ship with a large number of vessels easier

Consider it a friendly comment at this point: people here don't like uninformed statements of "fact":

Heavy weapons in turrets
And on the ISD-II subclass

Vohu Manah · Post by **Vohu Manah** » 2004-04-15 03:19am

My mistake on the ISD heavy guns being turret mounted, I apologize.

However, an ISD can't bring them to bear like a Iowa-Class battleship can, only a handful of batteries at a time could be brought to bear based on the approach angle of the target. You may call it a bad comparison, since one is a starship and the other is a surface warship, I think it is fair when talking about the overall deployment of the heavy guns. It could be argued that the ISD's heavy TL batteries are arranged well until you consider that the rear of the ship, as well as ventral side, are almost completely outside their arc of fire (if the Iowa were a starship as is, it would also have the ventral side weapon placement flaw). Your pictures do show that to a degree (on an Iowa, at least one of the ship's heavy weapon batteries can be fired on you at any time, even rearward).

Iowa Class Battleship

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-04-15 10:36am

How would the UFP use this newfound treasure? Would they use it to travel the galaxy, explore new places, or would the Fed use its new war force to help conquer their new neighbors in the GQ and DQ? Please keep an open mind about the things I ask of you, such as the belief that the Federation can fully understand all the systems and all things aboard the ships, along with being able to command the ship and all ground/space forces with the full understanding of the systems.

I see a strong chunk of Starfleet pushing to use their new toy on the Borg, to bitch slap them once and for all. Hunt down and destroy as many of the 'transwarp hubs' as they could to limit and even contain the Borg.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-15 12:51pm

Your link doesn't work. I like this one. And of course the Iowa would have a ventral gun problem in space as is. The ventral surface is meant to be underwater where guns don't exactly work too well. Its kind of a given.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-15 01:34pm

Vohu Manah wrote:My mistake on the ISD heavy guns being turret mounted, I apologize.

However, an ISD can't bring them to bear like a Iowa-Class battleship can, only a handful of batteries at a time could be brought to bear based on the approach angle of the target. You may call it a bad comparison, since one is a starship and the other is a surface warship, I think it is fair when talking about the overall deployment of the heavy guns. It could be argued that the ISD's heavy TL batteries are arranged well until you consider that the rear of the ship, as well as ventral side, are almost completely outside their arc of fire (if the Iowa were a starship as is, it would also have the ventral side weapon placement flaw). Your pictures do show that to a degree (on an Iowa, at least one of the ship's heavy weapon batteries can be fired on you at any time, even rearward).

Iowa Class Battleship

wrong. an ISD can pitch it's nose down and present it's dorsal profile bringing all of its heavy turrets to bear.

atkindave · Post by **atkindave** » 2004-04-15 02:48pm

The analogy of a ISD to a battleship is a good one. Bear in mind that Battleships were designed to "cross the T." Dreadnaughts are made to bring all of their big guns and half of their secondaries to bear on one side or other, not both, and not front or rear (although those possibilities exist in dire combat). I am aware that some Dreadnaughts are configured with main gun side turrets that cannot swivel to the other side. This still allows 8/10 guns to fire on one side. I have not seen a picture of any dreadnaught firing guns to both sides at once, or to the front or rear.

The idea was that the ship can control it's own bearing relative to a target long before that target comes into range. This is, if anything, even more true in space.

The big guns don't need to be all over the ship.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-04-15 04:27pm

Burak Gazan wrote:You say they cannot build anything Imperial-tech; does this mean at some point the ship is going to run into a consumables problem with Tibanna Gas and Hypermatter fuel? As well as spare parts for the starfighters, shuttles, and landing barges, etc etc.

Plus, you'd need to spend time training the pilots of the support ships and fighters to be stick-and-rudder men again, instead of pilot-by-typing

What I meant by not being able to build Imperial stuff was no building more weapons, droids, ect. But they could use the already existing tech, ie. bacta tubes, droids, ect. as long as they were on the ship, but they cannot replicate the technology.

And I said that all the people would already have the training and stuff to do their jobs.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2004-04-15 04:39pm

In other words, they have the knowledge, but not the infrastructure.

I'd think that the Feds would use the ISD to slag the Borg, after which they'd pull it back to Earth as a defense platform.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-04-15 04:40pm

Can someone eliminate the double-post of adkindave?

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2004-04-15 04:42pm

Ok then; so what about the matter of consumables? That really seems to be the only long-term concern operating the ship. Keeping it under wraps might be difficult, since a starship of this capability would drastically alter the balance of power in the galaxy. (maybe the section 31 idea isnt so hot

)

Perhaps making a showcase tour of the federation with the attached note "mess with us NOW at your peril" aimed at her enemies would be more useful. The only problem I see would be finding the captain for this ship -- the feds have never ever operated a ship of this amount of firepower, so caution would be advised

(eg, somewhere between finger-shaker and berserker-liquidator, but definitely no diplomat-types ala Picard

)

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-04-15 04:45pm

Food can be replaced but what do you people think about the Feds being able to refuel it?

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2004-04-15 04:48pm

That was what I was wondering about. Maybe a crash course in Imperial Propulsion 101 might get them up to speed, at least as far as obtaining the required fuels?

atkindave · Post by **atkindave** » 2004-04-15 05:03pm

Tribun wrote:Can someone eliminate the double-post of adkindave?

I apologize. You may all punish me.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-04-15 05:25pm

Marina did this in her first SWvST fanfic

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-04-15 05:27pm

phongn wrote:Marina did this in her first SWvST fanfic

Is it on here? And which one is it?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-04-15 05:48pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Vohu Manah wrote:My mistake on the ISD heavy guns being turret mounted, I apologize.

However, an ISD can't bring them to bear like a Iowa-Class battleship can, only a handful of batteries at a time could be brought to bear based on the approach angle of the target. You may call it a bad comparison, since one is a starship and the other is a surface warship, I think it is fair when talking about the overall deployment of the heavy guns. It could be argued that the ISD's heavy TL batteries are arranged well until you consider that the rear of the ship, as well as ventral side, are almost completely outside their arc of fire (if the Iowa were a starship as is, it would also have the ventral side weapon placement flaw). Your pictures do show that to a degree (on an Iowa, at least one of the ship's heavy weapon batteries can be fired on you at any time, even rearward).

Iowa Class Battleship
wrong. an ISD can pitch it's nose down and present it's dorsal profile bringing all of its heavy turrets to bear.

Doesn't help agianst targets "below" you.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2004-04-15 06:17pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
Doesn't help agianst targets "below" you.

In space "below" is a matter of rotation.

Kerneth · Post by **Kerneth** » 2004-04-15 06:17pm

So you roll ship if they're below you.

Besides, while the inability to bring a large number of guns to bear on certain angles may be an issue in the Star Wars universe, it really isn't in Star Trek, where even the anti-snubfighter weapons pack sufficient punch to deal with most enemy capital ships.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-15 06:29pm

Kerneth wrote:So you roll ship if they're below you.

Besides, while the inability to bring a large number of guns to bear on certain angles may be an issue in the Star Wars universe, it really isn't in Star Trek, where even the anti-snubfighter weapons pack sufficient punch to deal with most enemy capital ships.

Star Trek has no snubfighters.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-04-15 06:34pm

Kerneth wrote:So you roll ship if they're below you.

Besides, while the inability to bring a large number of guns to bear on certain angles may be an issue in the Star Wars universe, it really isn't in Star Trek, where even the anti-snubfighter weapons pack sufficient punch to deal with most enemy capital ships.

so the laws of physics somehow change in star trek?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2004-04-16 02:59am

Darth_Zod wrote:
Kerneth wrote:So you roll ship if they're below you.

Besides, while the inability to bring a large number of guns to bear on certain angles may be an issue in the Star Wars universe, it really isn't in Star Trek, where even the anti-snubfighter weapons pack sufficient punch to deal with most enemy capital ships.
so the laws of physics somehow change in star trek?

Why laws of physics should change? When your anti-snubfighter weapons, which is widely distributed on your hull, could destroy enemy capital ships at a glance, you don't need to maneuver your ship to aim the big guns at them, since you hardly need big guns at all.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-04-16 03:04am

Haven't you people ever watched Star Trek? If the Federation got their hands on an ISD, they would either:

1) Fly it into a black hole because such a destructive weapon should not be allowed to exist.

2) Give it to the Daystrom Institute for "scientific research", which means that it will never be seen again and nothing useful will ever come out of it.