Europe wary of U.S. policy shift

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-04-15 10:53am

Europe wary of U.S. policy shift
Reuters News Service

PARIS- The European Union showed it was wary of President Bush's Middle East policy shift today by rejecting unilateral border changes.

Changing decades of U.S. policy, Bush on Wednesday backed Israeli plans to keep parts of the West Bank and dismissed the right of Palestinian refugees to return to what is now Israel.

The EU, which drew up an international peace "road map" with the United States, avoided direct criticism of Bush. But it said any border changes must be agreed with the Palestinians and any peace deal must include a fair and just deal for refugees.

Arab leaders said any agreements that were forced on the Palestinians and were not part of the road map would fail.

At talks in Washington Wednesday, Bush endorsed Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to pull troops out of the Gaza Strip, which Sharon has made clear will involve keeping major Jewish settlements in the West Bank indefinitely.
The official U.S. view had for decades been that settlements are an obstacle to peace.

The EU rejected any unilateral changes to Israel's frontier to incorporate Palestinian land captured since the 1967 Middle East war.

"The European Union will not recognize any change to the pre-1967 borders (of Israel) other than those arrived at by agreement between the parties," Irish Foreign Minister Brian Cowen said in a statement on behalf of the EU presidency.

He noted that the road map -- drawn up by the EU, the United States, the United Nations and Russia -- underlined that any settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict "must include an agreed, just, fair and realistic solution to the refugee issue."

Cowen welcomed what he called the United States' renewed commitment to the road map and said EU foreign ministers will discuss the Middle East at talks in Ireland Friday.

The German government said it hoped work on the road map would continue, welcomed the fact that there was movement in the peace process and hailed the Gaza withdrawal plan.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair also welcomed the Gaza pullout plan and said it offered a chance that should be seized. But Blair avoided any reference to Bush's remarks on refugees and whether Israel should keep any West Bank settlements.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-15 11:09am

the current 'road map' is dead. I'm not saying i support Bush's endorsement, but at least it gets more people talkng about a peace plan instead of car bombs and gunmen.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-04-15 12:59pm

Consider the origin of the people who are, to paraphrase you, "talking more"; they all come from the Israeli side. This stinks; negotiating a plan without the Palestinians is doomed to fail.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-15 01:10pm

BoredShirtless wrote:Consider the origin of the people who are, to paraphrase you, "talking more"; they all come from the Israeli side. This stinks; negotiating a plan without the Palestinians is doomed to fail.

Talking is better than nothing. Likely a waste though. A few years ago Ehud Barak offered the Palistinians 90% of the west bank and right of return. They turned it down. I'm beginning to think that no matter what the origin of those involved, a negotiated settlement will bever be reached.
To make matters worse, there will always be loony Ultra-Orhodox Jewish settlers fucking with the Palistinians. Conversely there will always be rabid fundamentalists on the Palistinian side. Doesn't hurt to try though. It does make me sick though... what they do to each other.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-04-15 03:31pm

A few years ago Ehud Barak offered the Palistinians 90% of the west bank and right of return. They turned it down. I'm beginning to think that no matter what the origin of those involved, a negotiated settlement will bever be reached.

Didn't he offer it with the stipulation that it be carved up into little pieces, criscrossed by Israeli patrols and border crossings, along with a host of other autonomy-depriving stuff? Is the new one any better?

Post by **Edi** » 2004-04-15 03:45pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:Consider the origin of the people who are, to paraphrase you, "talking more"; they all come from the Israeli side. This stinks; negotiating a plan without the Palestinians is doomed to fail.
Talking is better than nothing. Likely a waste though. A few years ago Ehud Barak offered the Palistinians 90% of the west bank and right of return. They turned it down. I'm beginning to think that no matter what the origin of those involved, a negotiated settlement will bever be reached.
To make matters worse, there will always be loony Ultra-Orhodox Jewish settlers fucking with the Palistinians. Conversely there will always be rabid fundamentalists on the Palistinian side. Doesn't hurt to try though. It does make me sick though... what they do to each other.

You will want to check the terms of that "generous" deal. Anybody offering me a "generous" deal with that sort of terms would get a fist in the face by way of response. Barak's plan was just smoke and mirrors designed to make the Palestinians look bad when they inevitably had to refuse.

Edi

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-04-15 04:28pm

You guys should read Mike's Palestine site.....

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-04-15 06:17pm

Any plan for Palestinian statehood that is contingent upon the Palestinan right of return is doomed to fail. Israel will under no circumstances allow Jews to become a minority in their own country. If they'd given up right of return thirty years ago, they'd have a country by now.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-16 06:48am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Any plan for Palestinian statehood that is contingent upon the Palestinan right of return is doomed to fail. Israel will under no circumstances allow Jews to become a minority in their own country. If they'd given up right of return thirty years ago, they'd have a country by now.

if i may play devil's advocate. what is the difference between Jews bitching about becoming a minority in Israel and white supremacists bitching about becoming a minority in the United States? Pretty fucking racist attitude if you ask me.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-04-16 09:57am

Col. Crackpot wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Any plan for Palestinian statehood that is contingent upon the Palestinan right of return is doomed to fail. Israel will under no circumstances allow Jews to become a minority in their own country. If they'd given up right of return thirty years ago, they'd have a country by now.
if i may play devil's advocate. what is the difference between Jews bitching about becoming a minority in Israel and white supremacists bitching about becoming a minority in the United States? Pretty fucking racist attitude if you ask me.

Because saying things against israel makes you an anti-semite so you're not allowed to

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-04-16 05:00pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Any plan for Palestinian statehood that is contingent upon the Palestinan right of return is doomed to fail. Israel will under no circumstances allow Jews to become a minority in their own country. If they'd given up right of return thirty years ago, they'd have a country by now.
if i may play devil's advocate. what is the difference between Jews bitching about becoming a minority in Israel and white supremacists bitching about becoming a minority in the United States? Pretty fucking racist attitude if you ask me.

Technically it isn't racist, as religion can always be changed, as skin color can't. But the problem is that 60 years ago, no one would've given a shit. The Arabs that stayed in Israel during the War of Independence are now full fledged Israelis with all the rights and responsibilities thereof. Those who left, on the other hand, are now a rabid, hate filled bunch that no one really wants, and who would probably vote all Jews onto a raft and sink it if given the majority vote...