Bin Ladin claims Madrid bombings; offers truce to Europe

[Rogue 9]

What did those people in Madrid do wrong? What did the people on those 2 airplanes 2 years ago do bad other than being non-Wahabbi?

They had the misfortune of living in a country that is "meddling" in the Mid-East. Sorry to dispel your illusion, but civilians have been considered fair bait in war since at least World War II and many times they end up getting the shitty end of the stick- as the citizens and refugees of Dresden can attest. Call them terrorists if you will, but from their perspective they're fighting a war in the only way they can and they consider their methods are perfectly legitmate given the descrepincy of power between the Islam and the US.

Legitimate? I'm sorry, blowing up random noncombatants as a primary target is not a legitimate tactic.

I state again, why would Bin Laden violate this truce when he has so much to gain from it?

The same reason Hitler violated his truce with Russia when he had so much to gain from having it. Insane killers do not typically make the most rational of decisions.

[TheDarkling]

this sounds alot like Hitler's strategy for WWII. Conquer a bit of territory, declare a truce. conquer some more, declare a truce plant falsified reasons for doing so, repeat as needed.

These constant comparisons to WW2 do get awfully tiresome, even more so when they are based a rather skewed view of what actually happened.

The sequence of events was - Hitler takes land that according to the allied big talk he deserved anyway, the allies allow this but force Hitler to assent to conditions. Hitler takes what isn't his, Allies arm up and the next time he steps out of line war is declared.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Simply to get the whole of the Middle East to support him. Support creating a Palestinian state, and people will do all kinds of things for you.

He wasn't supporting a Palestinian state, just the destruction of Israel. I thought that was pretty clear from the quote.

[HemlockGrey]

Nathan, if "open society" is his sole reason, why hasn't he attacked Denmark, or the Netherlands?

[Lonestar]

Nathan, if "open society" is his sole reason, why hasn't he attacked Denmark, or the Netherlands?

Neither are what you would call the "big kid on the block.". If you want to make a statement, go after the big kid.

[Ma Deuce]

Nathan, if "open society" is his sole reason, why hasn't he attacked Denmark, or the Netherlands?

Because they only see America to be the great perveyor of evil secularism. They do not see the rabid fundimentalist attitudes that in fact permeate American society. All they see is Hollywood, greed, and "vorldly vices". Also, America is the center of Western society, and the Western country most involved in the Middle East.

[KrauserKrauser]

I'm glad to see someone resurrected Neville Chamberlain and brought him to this thread.

I hold in my hand prrof that Hitler will not attack us!

Substitute for Bin Laden and you get the same results.

I hear meglomaniacal killers don't make for good treaty honoring material.

[Sarevok]

Bin Laden is the biggest embarrasment to Islam since the Karbala incident. I wish he is captured and brought to justice.

Expect then a vast swarms of terrorist hostage takings with demands for his release. Its better that he dies, the terrorists already have plenty of martyrs and one more isn't going to make any difference.

Well in that case Bin Laden should be tried in a symbolic court and the sentence of execution should be carried out by a 2000 lb bomb or by special forces.

[Raptor 597]

I'm glad to see someone resurrected Neville Chamberlain and brought him to this thread.

I hold in my hand prrof that Hitler will not attack us!

Substitute for Bin Laden and you get the same results.

I hear meglomaniacal killers don't make for good treaty honoring material.

Please, shut up with the stupid analogies. Am I the only one who saw Bin Laden was joking in the article? If he had half a sentinent brain he'd know the nations would refuse, and he'll try incite the vehment anti-war crowd by bombing again. He will destroy something else send a new message and say "look what I offered you refused you pay" and the fallout is massive. This'll be more damaging to his opponents if the truce was accepted. It's all about getting a pretext.

[Crown]

Am I the only one who saw Bin Laden was joking in the article? If he had half a sentinent brain he'd know the nations would refuse, and he'll try incite the vehment anti-war crowd by bombing again. He will destroy something else send a new message and say "look what I offered you refused you pay" and the fallout is massive. This'll be more damaging to his opponents if the truce was accepted. It's all about getting a pretext.

Actually I believe that he is serious in this initiative, if for no other reason than Europe being more sympathetic to the Palestinians.

Of course no European politician would actually be stupid enough to say 'yes', regardless of what somepeople in this thread believe.

[Rogue 9]

Am I the only one who saw Bin Laden was joking in the article? If he had half a sentinent brain he'd know the nations would refuse, and he'll try incite the vehment anti-war crowd by bombing again. He will destroy something else send a new message and say "look what I offered you refused you pay" and the fallout is massive. This'll be more damaging to his opponents if the truce was accepted. It's all about getting a pretext.

Actually I believe that he is serious in this initiative, if for no other reason than Europe being more sympathetic to the Palestinians.

Of course no European politician would actually be stupid enough to say 'yes', regardless of what somepeople in this thread believe.

They've already refused. Also, the tape confesses guilt for the Spanish bombings. This may have been posted already, but I'm just making sure.

[Master of Ossus]

Also, the tape confesses guilt for the Spanish bombings. This may have been posted already, but I'm just making sure.

Not that the Arab communities I've dealt with will give a damn. They ignored bin Laden's little "smoking gun" tape of him discussing his role in the 9/11 attacks.

[salm]

bleh, the RAF never got what they wanted. why would AQ get what they want?

[Broomstick]

And what makes you so sure that this isn't a legitimate offer? He has no reason to have a grudge against Europe

Huh. And I suppose that folks can just forget that the Muslims once held most of Spain, and that many Muslims feel that once a territory is Muslim it is always Muslim - even if the infidel takes over for 400-500 years.

And there's that matter of France being threatened because of the headscarf ban in schools.

And the alliance between the UK and US governments.

And the large US military installations in Germany

And Polish support of the US Iraq mess

Right - no reason to attack Europe. No reason to reneg on a truce.

I'm inclined to think that if he's making this offer he genuinely means it.

OK, maybe he does mean it today - will he also mean it tomorrow as well?

No, I don't trust bin Laden or anyone who presumes to represent him. Then again, I must confess to a bias - he has already declared me (along with several hundred million others) under sentence of death with no opportunity for mercy. Nice guy. Hope he expires while being raped by a syphillitic pig.

Even if he did declare truce on Europe - well, OK Europe may enjoy "peace" - but what about, say, Australia? Better not vacation in Bali, either. Guess ya'll will have to stay home for good.

[JME2]

And what makes you so sure that this isn't a legitimate offer? He has no reason to have a grudge against Europe, and the comparision of Hitler to Russia is completely false- unlike Hitler he has no chance to attack and steal huge swaths of territory from his non-agression pact partner. I'm inclined to think that if he's making this offer he genuinely means it.

Try the Crusades. Many, many Islamic fundamentalists still hold that against Europe. I don't recall whether he's among them or not or if we know either way.

That's, as I see it, the biggest problem with Islam; they're living in the past. They have to be willing to move beyond their hatreds, to accept change and growth. Unfortunatly, Dubbya thinks he can do it by invading the Middle East.