Paul Martin has a brain fart

[Ma Deuce]

Linky

Apparently, Martin has been hanging around Mssr. Cretin for too long .

IIRC, the Defence Misister also referred to Vimy Ridge as "Vichy Ridge".

[Aaron]

Well, well it seems that Paul Martin can't be bothered to brush up on his history. If your going to address a group of soldiers about D-Day than you could at least get your facts straight. And the Defense Minister referring to Vimy Ridge as Vichy Ridge? Thats just idiocy plain and simple, it's Canada's most famous battle.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Or maybe he *SURPRISE* misspoke!

[TheDarkling]

Or maybe he *SURPRISE* misspoke!

Twice.

[Montcalm]

Again intelligence is not required when you go into politics.

[Ma Deuce]

Again intelligence is not required when you go into politics.

In fairness, at least Martin is not anywhere near as dumb as Chretien...er Cretin , who consistantly exibited a GWB (or worse) level of stupidity.

[Montcalm]

Yeah and have you ever read "Les Chrétieneries" its loaded with ever stupid things Crétin said.

[Ma Deuce]

Yeah and have you ever read "Les Chrétieneries" its loaded with ever stupid things Crétin said.

No, but there are plenty of Cretin quotes available on the Internet, including my personal favorite:

"pourquoi achèter des carabines à répétition et de l'armement nucléaire -- quand c'est à la maison un enfant peut jouer avec ça"

("Why buy repeater carbines and nuclear armament -- if this is kept at home a child can play with it")

[Montcalm]

Thats one of the funniest Chrétienneries i've read,and what store did he go to to find nukes.

[Icehawk]

Meh, everyone makes mistakes, even if they are sometimes completely fucking stupid ones like this. Still gonna vote for him though since I refuse to see a conservative gov't take power.

[Montcalm]

Meh, everyone makes mistakes, even if they are sometimes completely fucking stupid ones like this. Still gonna vote for him though since I refuse to see a conservative gov't take power.

You already forgot about the disappearing money scandal,he knew what happened to it......and you still want that lying SOB for Prime Minister

And would you be happy with the Bloc Quebecois as the Official Opposition.

[Ma Deuce]

Meh, everyone makes mistakes, even if they are sometimes completely fucking stupid ones like this. Still gonna vote for him though since I refuse to see a conservative gov't take power.

I don't care much for the Conservatives myself, but I'm afraid they are (grudgingly) getting my vote by default this election. Until the Federal Liberals prove that they are no longer the same corrupt, money-wasting, self-serving party that Cretin left behind, they will not get my vote. The other alternatives (BQ, NDP) aren't even worth considering...

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Ah yes, a governing Reform Party. Fun.

[Ma Deuce]

Ah yes, a governing Reform Party. Fun.

The Liberals have fucked this country for the last 11 years. It's time to give someone else a turn to fuck it up, because that's really what voting choices have come to in Canada: Who is going to fuck up the country overall the least, because they are all going to do it in some way. For me, the sponsorship scandal was the last straw. If it hadn't happened, I might still vote Liberal, but now...

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

For me, the sponsorship scandal was the last straw. If it hadn't happened, I might still vote Liberal, but now...

The Canadian Republican Party gets a chance?

[Jalinth]

No - the scary thing is that the Conservatives are middle to leftist compared to the Republican party. Heck, they are left of even some Democrats I've heard,
Also, they've merged the old Progressive with the Alliance/Reform - some of the old Progressives were very much "Red" (left leaning), so the radicals have been diluted.

Also, Harper has personal courage - said Canada should do "X" even when the pools were against it (Iraq is a good example, but others exist) . He isn't an extreme religious nut (they do exist unfortunately in the party). The Liberals have their own nutcases (extreme environmentalists and various others who worship secular visions - multiculturism, equal of result rather than opportunity) and worse (the opportunists who want to join the Natural Ruling Party so we see riding meetings with thousands of "instant" Liberals)

So, I'm in favour of a change and the Conservatives are the only alternative.

Also, unlike the US, both parties have fiscal conservatives in charge (although I wonder about how responsible a government can be when it is missing $100M+ in funds ), so the "no deficit' mantra will be continued.

Flame On

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

No - the scary thing is that the Conservatives are middle to leftist compared to the Republican party. Heck, they are left of even some Democrats I've heard,
Also, they've merged the old Progressive with the Alliance/Reform - some of the old Progressives were very much "Red" (left leaning), so the radicals have been diluted.

Bullshit. The Alliance/Reform parts far out number the PC elements. Hell several MPs presumably the more left wing have either jumped to the Liberals or independent.

Also, Harper has personal courage - said Canada should do "X" even when the pools were against it (Iraq is a good example, but others exist) .

I'd hardly call that a good example! It turns out the polls were right and Harper was horribly wrong. There's a fine line betwen personal courage and "Damn the Torpedoes!"

He isn't an extreme religious nut (they do exist unfortunately in the party).

IIRC he does have a habit of sprinkling speechs with frequent usage of God. And even if he isn't a wacko, his solid support is Alberta. I doubt things like Gay Marriage would be forwarded.

The Liberals have their own nutcases (extreme environmentalists and various others who worship secular visions - multiculturism, equal of result rather than opportunity) and worse (the opportunists who want to join the Natural Ruling Party so we see riding meetings with thousands of "instant" Liberals)

Most environmentalists and crazy left wingers just vote Communist-er, uh, I mean NDP. Any that vote Liberal have little voice.

So, I'm in favour of a change and the Conservatives are the only alternative.

Also, unlike the US, both parties have fiscal conservatives in charge (although I wonder about how responsible a government can be when it is missing $100M+ in funds ), so the "no deficit' mantra will be continued.

Flame On

All I can say is Harper is about a thousand time better then Belinda "I'm so rich I'm going to anounce I'm not going take a salary" Stronach who was so reliant on teleprompters and script writers she could only answer whether she'd have invaded Iraq with "I'm no military expert."

[Ma Deuce]

The Canadian Republican Party gets a chance?

Exactly. If they turn out to be worse than the Liberals, then they won't get my vote in 2008. It's that simple. At the very least I hope they'll be more fiscally responsible than the Liberals.

[Icehawk]

To me fiscal responsibily is important, but it will always, take second place when social progression and stability are in danger.

IMO, a vote for the conservatives is a vote for:

1) Increased religion in the gov't

2) The death of gay marriage rights

3) A "pro life" stance on abortion (You may not be pro life, but its obvious the cons are)

4) Severe limitation or possible cancellation of vital stemcell and cloning research. (They did it in the US and pretty much everywhere else that had conservative or religious influence in the gov't so I have no reason to think it will be any different with this Con party)

I cannot in good conscience ever vote for a government which would lead a country down this path regardless of whatever fiscal mistakes the current gov't in power has made. Not only that, but with Martin at the helm of things, their is a good chance fiscal responsibility will return anyways, its also obvious the Liberals have been shaken up over this whole thing so why would you assume they wouldnt do something to fix it?

[Ma Deuce]

2) The death of gay marriage rights

I believe that's for the provinces and the Supreme Court to decide. If the SC passes it, there won't be much the Conservatives can do, no matter how many seats they get.

3) A "pro life" stance on abortion (You may not be pro life, but its obvious the cons are)

4) Severe limitation or possible cancellation of vital stemcell and cloning research. (They did it in the US and pretty much everywhere else that had conservative or religious influence in the gov't so I have no reason to think it will be any different with this Con party)

Unfortunate in both cases, but there will be some tradeoffs, considering this is really a vote to choose the lesser of two evils...

Not only that, but with Martin at the helm of things, their is a good chance fiscal responsibility will return anyways,

How do you figure that? Martin was Chretien's Finance Minister for 10 of his 12 years in office...

its also obvious the Liberals have been shaken up over this whole thing so why would you assume they wouldnt do something to fix it?

Because if they believe there is no credible opposition to challange their supremacy, they won't see any reason to change their ways. How do you think Cretin got re-elected twice? This sort of thing always happens in a one-party democracy (much like Mexico was when the Institutional Revolutionary Party ran everything). They way it's looking now, they're still going to win the election anyways. They'll lose some seats, but they will still be in, possibly even with a majority. See my point?

Besides, the sponsorship scandal is already fading from the public's (rather short) memory...

I cannot in good conscience ever vote for a government which would lead a country down this path regardless of whatever fiscal mistakes the current gov't in power has made

It's not that a party's other policies don't matter to me, but fiscal responsibility is my bottom line. It won't be too long before I'm paying taxes...

Besides, like I said, if they (somehow) win this time then fuck up, I'll swing back to the Liberals in 2008...

[Icehawk]

How do you figure that? Martin was Chretien's Finance Minister for 10 of his 12 years in office...

Thats true, but he was also under Chretiens thumb then. Now that he's in control with plenty of experience under his belt (especially since he ran his own company), and the fact that he hates Chretiens guts, I don't think he has any plans to continue with the Chretien way of doing things.

Because if they believe there is no credible opposition to challange their supremacy, they won't see any reason to change their ways. How do you think Cretin got re-elected twice? This sort of thing always happens in a one-party democracy (much like Mexico was when the Institutional Revolutionary Party ran everything). They way it's looking now, they're still going to win the election anyways. They'll lose some seats, but they will still be in, possibly even with a majority. See my point?

I understand that completely, but I just believe the Liberals are still the lesser evil overall and I would also like to at least give Paul Martin a chance at the helm.

[Jalinth]

Honestly, I think what everyone is saying is that neither the Libs nor Conservatives are a great choice.

Also, the new conservatives can't go that far right w/o losing Ontario - even their core support (the West) isn't necessarily religious voters - a large chunk are "we hate the Liberals" and/or alienated voters

The longer the Liberals remain in power, the more corrupt they will become - more people will join just to join the ruling party (has been happening already - can we say "Mr. ex-NDP premier" Mr. Dosanjh.

Also, given a decade of Chretien speak, a bit of "damn the torpedoes" straight talk could be a nice change.
Harper is much better than his predecessor Mr. jetski and does make a viable opposition leader for the first time.

The less we say about Ms. Stronach the better - child of a well connected and wealthy father without any real experience - should have run for the US presidency instead

Within 6 months we should have answer one way or the other - Mr. Martin, Mr. Harper or a minority gov't - those are the viable choices with Canada's first past the post system.

My next thread - should Canada have some version of rep by pop and how to implement?

[muse]

Also, the new conservatives can't go that far right w/o losing Ontario - even their core support (the West) isn't necessarily religious voters - a large chunk are "we hate the Liberals" and/or alienated voters

That's the thing, they don't have to. If they had any brains at all they'd take a moderate stance leading up to the elections, and after they're in power they'll take a hard swing to the right. It'll likely wipe out any chance of re-election but the fact is 5 years is more than enough time to put their policies into effect and steer the country in their chosen direction. They could easily set back our society a good 30-40 years in that time and cause irreparable harm to our country. Compared to that a billion missing bucks is a very small price to pay.

[Durandal]

Again intelligence is not required when you go into politics.

Sure it is. But no one said that the individual has to be intelligent. That's why Bush surrounded himself with lots of people smarter than he is. If you're not sharp, surround yourself with people who are.

That's what we call a "Shadow Government."