Hamas boss killed

[Colonel Olrik]

Mr Rantissi was driving his car in a Gaza suburb as an Israeli helicopter fired missiles at it, witnesses say.

[MKSheppard]

Mr Rantissi was driving his car in a Gaza suburb as an Israeli helicopter fired missiles at it, witnesses say.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[Sharp-kun]

Can't say I feel bad about it.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Sometimes, reading the news, I think about certain stories in the terms "When is this going to stop?"

It is something very saddening that in the case of Israel the answer is "never."

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Mr Rantissi was driving his car in a Gaza suburb as an Israeli helicopter fired missiles at it, witnesses say.

At least two other people were also killed and several more wounded.

Isreali Airstrikes once again prove their worth, firing in a civilian urban environment and killing probably innocent bystanders just to kill some dumbass terrorist who will be replaced by tommorow.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I bet you a fiver each that the terrorists have more martyrs than Israel has missiles.

[Sharp-kun]

Mr Rantissi was driving his car in a Gaza suburb as an Israeli helicopter fired missiles at it, witnesses say.

At least two other people were also killed and several more wounded.

Isreali Airstrikes once again prove their worth, firing in a civilian urban environment and killing probably innocent bystanders just to kill some dumbass terrorist who will be replaced by tommorow.

According to Fox, the 2 killed would be his son and his bodyguard.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117399,00.html

[Montcalm]

It seems the Israeli militaries likes overkill.


idiot time: they learned well from the Nazis.

[Knife]

- You're the leader now.

-Oh no, you're the leader now.

-Fuck that, you're the leader.

-Yo' mama, you're the leader.

*Boom*

[Xon]

Mr Rantissi was driving his car in a Gaza suburb as an Israeli helicopter fired missiles at it, witnesses say.

At least two other people were also killed and several more wounded.

Isreali Airstrikes once again prove their worth, firing in a civilian urban environment and killing probably innocent bystanders just to kill some dumbass terrorist who will be replaced by tommorow.

Well in this case at least it wasnt fragging a biulding with +40 people in it.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Still, all it will do is help create more violence. They should have learned from the last attack.

Israel had previously tried to kill Rantisi June 10 when three Apache helicopters fired at least seven missiles toward Rantisi's car in a crowded Gaza thoroughfare, reducing his vehicle to a scorched heap of metal. Rantisi escaped with a wound to the right leg. Two Palestinian bystanders were killed.

In a retaliatory attack the next day, 16 Israelis were killed in a Hamas homicide bombing in Jerusalem.

They'll presumably be a suicide bombing in the near future for this.

[Ma Deuce]

They'll presumably be a suicide bombing in the near future for this.

Don't you mean Suicide Bombings

[Knife]

They'll presumably be a suicide bombing in the near future for this.

Don't you mean Suicide Bombings

Like that wasn't going to happen any way.

[Sea Skimmer]

I bet you a fiver each that the terrorists have more martyrs than Israel has missiles.

Best you twenty they could kill everyone in Gaza and the West Bank long before running out of nice cheep machine gun ammunition and artillery shells.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I bet you a fiver each that the terrorists have more martyrs than Israel has missiles.

Best you twenty they could kill everyone in Gaza and the West Bank long before running out of nice cheep machine gun ammunition and artillery shells.

Pfft, as useful as one side wiping the other off the face of the planet would be in quelling this mess, I doubt we'll see it.

I'm thinking those unofficial nukes will come in handy for Middle-eastern armageddon.

[Keevan_Colton]

I bet you a fiver each that the terrorists have more martyrs than Israel has missiles.

Best you twenty they could kill everyone in Gaza and the West Bank long before running out of nice cheep machine gun ammunition and artillery shells.

Of course, that's more a Final Solution...

[Xenophobe3691]

I bet you a fiver each that the terrorists have more martyrs than Israel has missiles.

Best you twenty they could kill everyone in Gaza and the West Bank long before running out of nice cheep machine gun ammunition and artillery shells.

Of course, that's more a Final Solution...

No, a Final Solution would require that the entire process be industrialized and made as efficient as possible, complete with red tape and paperwork

[Keevan_Colton]

No, a Final Solution would require that the entire process be industrialized and made as efficient as possible, complete with red tape and paperwork

Hey look at a few laws they've got on the books there, and then look at some they came up with in Germany in the 1930's...particularly those to do with who can marry who...

Siezing assets, destroying homes, removing rights...

[Ubiquitous]

No, a Final Solution would require that the entire process be industrialized and made as efficient as possible, complete with red tape and paperwork

Hey look at a few laws they've got on the books there, and then look at some they came up with in Germany in the 1930's...particularly those to do with who can marry who...

Siezing assets, destroying homes, removing rights...

I fail to see your point. The situation in Israel at the moment is nothing compared to the inexcusable actions of the Nazi's in the 1930's.

Pro-Israeli supporters should not take this as an endorsement of their actions, however. I will add that I do support the assassination of all terrorists, but I'm not sure whether this guy actually was a terrorist or not. He claimed not to be, but then again, so does Martin McGuinnes...

[Keevan_Colton]

Hey look at a few laws they've got on the books there, and then look at some they came up with in Germany in the 1930's...particularly those to do with who can marry who...

Siezing assets, destroying homes, removing rights...

I fail to see your point. The situation in Israel at the moment is nothing compared to the inexcusable actions of the Nazi's in the 1930's.

Comparisions to early 1930's conduct is entirely appropriate, as the actions are often almost identical. Take for example, this.

Israeli law limits Arab citizenship

The Israeli parliament passed a law preventing Palestinians married to Israelis from gaining Israeli citizenship.

Human rights groups have condemned the law as racist but supporters say it is necessary for security reasons and to maintain the Jewish character of the state of Israel.

The law will prevent Palestinians from the occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza from marrying Arab-Israelis, who make up about 20% of the population of Israel.

A total of 53 deputies voted for the measure and 25 against, while there was one abstention, according to a spokesman.

Until now, the Israeli interior minister has had the final say on whether Palestinians who marry Israeli citizens can receive citizenship and make a home in Israel.

Interior Minister Avraham Poraz said he welcomed the proposed bill - reluctantly.

"I wish we didn't need this law, I'm not thrilled with it, but there was a government decision and I must follow it," he said.

According to the government, 16,000 applications were approved in the past decade after intense security checks.

Controversy

But the minister in charge of relations with parliament, Gideon Ezra, has defended the bill on the grounds that 30 Israelis have been allegedly killed by Palestinians who gained citizenship and residency rights through marriage.

"The phenomenon has spun out control, with more then 100,000 Palestinians from Judea and Samaria (as Israelis call the West Bank) and Gaza obtaining Israeli identity cards since the 1993 Oslo (autonomy) accords," Mr Ezra said.

Arab MP Ahmad Tibi described the law as "inhuman", while leftist deputy Zeeva Galon has warned that the law will "deny the fundamental right of Arab Israelis to start families".

The new law, which applies only to Palestinians, will prevent the approval of any future or pending applications.

I've highlighted the last part so it's extra clear...this is similar to the policies instituted in the late 1930's which denied Jews citizenship. Lets not even get onto the comparisions that can be drawn with the companies signing into contract that thier foreign workers cannot have sexual relations with israeli women...after all, that would be pretty much identical to this :-

Firm in the knowledge that the purity of German blood is the basis for the survival of the German people and inspired by the unshakeable determination to safeguard the future of the German nation, the Reichstag has unanimously resolved upon the following law, which is promulgated herewith:

Section 1
Marriages between Jews and citizens of German or some related blood are forbidden.
Such marriages contracted despite the law are invalid, even if they take place abroad in order to avoid the law.

Section 2
Sexual relations outside marriage between Jews and citizens of German or related blood are forbidden.

Add in justifications from the political elements in Israel, that such things as listed above are neccessary to "prevent the loss of Israel's Jewish character" and I think you've got more than enough to start drawing some parallels dont you?

Pro-Israeli supporters should not take this as an endorsement of their actions, however. I will add that I do support the assassination of all terrorists, but I'm not sure whether this guy actually was a terrorist or not. He claimed not to be, but then again, so does Martin McGuinnes...

Here's an idea, if you know where they are, can get to them arrest and try them for thier crimes. Dont use anti-tank weapons or air strikes as weapons of assasination. Also, while we're on what you support, do you support the repeated violations of the Geneva Conventions and the like in the Occupied Territories?

Here's some highlights...

An occupying power may NOT:

- use collective punishment or intimidation against the occupied population (Article 33, IV Geneva Convention);

- forcibly transfer inhabitants of the occupied territory to its territory or elsewhere nor transfer parts of its civilian population into the territory it occupies (Article 49, IV Geneva Convention);

- take measures aiming at creating unemployment or at restricting employment opportunities in the occupied territory, in order to induce the occupied population to work for the occupying power (Article 52, IV Geneva Convention);

- destroy private or public property, except where absolutely necessary for military operations (Article 53, IV Geneva Convention);

- appropriating private or public property or natural resources, for which the occupying power shall be regarded only as administrator (Article 55, Hague Regulations).

[Ubiquitous]

learn how to snip~Olrik

Whilst your research is admirable, it is also flawed. You cite examples of how current Israeli actions are somehow comparable to the Nazis in the 1930's, but you fail to acknowledge the differences between the two situations. For example, Israel has been under constant terrorist attack for over three years, and prior to that has been the subject of more terrorism and armed conflict than any other ME nation. Germany, on the other hand, was not the subject of terrorism. Instead, Germany used the Jewish 'problem' for purely political means. Whilst even the most cynical pro-Israeli would find it hard to claim that Israel has not exploited the terrorist threat for their own gains, the fact remains that there is a clear problem regarding terrorism in Israel. Thus, unlike in Germany where the real enemy were nationalists mascarading as legitament politicians, Israel is justified in defending itself against terrorists. The only issue of contension is whether they go too far in these actions.


[q]Here's an idea, if you know where they are, can get to them arrest and try them for thier crimes. Dont use anti-tank weapons or air strikes as weapons of assasination.[/q]

Nice idea. Say, have you ever tried to arrest a senior suspected terrorist? I'd imagine that going into the Gaza strip in numbers to arrest such a person would result in far more death and destruction than doing it from the air.

Going in on the ground would lead to the Palestinians taking up arms against the soldiers going to arrest him. Say only ten people help the terrorist - that's ten more deaths at least.

I hope you can see the ultimate futility of your argument. It's impossible to make command decisions from thousands of miles away when we don't have a clue just how difficult it would be to execute such an order.

Also, while we're on what you support, do you support the repeated violations of the Geneva Conventions and the like in the Occupied Territories?

Here's some highlights...

An occupying power may NOT:

- use collective punishment or intimidation against the occupied population (Article 33, IV Geneva Convention);

- forcibly transfer inhabitants of the occupied territory to its territory or elsewhere nor transfer parts of its civilian population into the territory it occupies (Article 49, IV Geneva Convention);

- take measures aiming at creating unemployment or at restricting employment opportunities in the occupied territory, in order to induce the occupied population to work for the occupying power (Article 52, IV Geneva Convention);

- destroy private or public property, except where absolutely necessary for military operations (Article 53, IV Geneva Convention);

- appropriating private or public property or natural resources, for which the occupying power shall be regarded only as administrator (Article 55, Hague Regulations).

I am sure if the international community actually gave a damm about these laws, then everyone would follow them. As it stands, Israel can get away with what ever it likes because everyone else is too spineless to do anything about it. These laws are applied in an inconsistent manner and if they are to be of any use they should be enforced consistently and strongly. They are important laws and yet they are worthless apart from use by politicians to label how 'bad' the enemy is.

[Keevan_Colton]

Whilst your research is admirable, it is also flawed. You cite examples of how current Israeli actions are somehow comparable to the Nazis in the 1930's, but you fail to acknowledge the differences between the two situations. For example, Israel has been under constant terrorist attack for over three years, and prior to that has been the subject of more terrorism and armed conflict than any other ME nation. Germany, on the other hand, was not the subject of terrorism. Instead, Germany used the Jewish 'problem' for purely political means. Whilst even the most cynical pro-Israeli would find it hard to claim that Israel has not exploited the terrorist threat for their own gains, the fact remains that there is a clear problem regarding terrorism in Israel. Thus, unlike in Germany where the real enemy were nationalists mascarading as legitament politicians, Israel is justified in defending itself against terrorists. The only issue of contension is whether they go too far in these actions.

So, it is alright to collectively punish all the palestinians for the actions of extremists? Denying citizenship to people based on race, is purely a racist measure and doing so for some idealogical reason is exactly what the Nazi's did.

How effective is denying citizenship in stopping terrorists, do suicide bombers want to live somewhere, the suicide component would seem to deny that wouldnt it?
It seems it is a simply punitive measure against the palastinians.

Nice idea. Say, have you ever tried to arrest a senior suspected terrorist? I'd imagine that going into the Gaza strip in numbers to arrest such a person would result in far more death and destruction than doing it from the air.

Going in on the ground would lead to the Palestinians taking up arms against the soldiers going to arrest him. Say only ten people help the terrorist - that's ten more deaths at least.

I hope you can see the ultimate futility of your argument. It's impossible to make command decisions from thousands of miles away when we don't have a clue just how difficult it would be to execute such an order.

So blowing up a crowd such as they did to assasinate a nearly blind old man in a wheel chair is a good thing?

Collateral damage is one thing, but to simply write it off as neccesary is sickening. The fact of the matter is, the israeli government controls this land and has a duty to protect the people there.

The israeli government controls this land, do you think perhaps a lack of fair treatment and due process might be an issue in the violence incited in the region? I certainly thing it could be.

I am sure if the international community actually gave a damm about these laws, then everyone would follow them. As it stands, Israel can get away with what ever it likes because everyone else is too spineless to do anything about it. These laws are applied in an inconsistent manner and if they are to be of any use they should be enforced consistently and strongly. They are important laws and yet they are worthless apart from use by politicians to label how 'bad' the enemy is.

I'm sure if the israeli government gave a damn about laws, then everyone would follow them. As it stands, the palestinians are not subject to protections in the law of their rights to life, liberty and property and there isnt really much they can do about it. The laws on these matters are applied in an inconsistant manner and should be enforced in a consistent manner protecting the rights of everyone equally.

There is no justification for the conduct of the israeli government in these matters. Using area effect weapons designed for war to kill your enemies in civillian areas is unacceptable. Would it be acceptable for a palestinian suicide bomber to blow himself up if he took out Ariel Sharon and a group of school childern so long as his intent was to kill Sharon?

If that is unacceptable, then the approach of the israeli government is equally unacceptable.

[Sharp-kun]

Collateral damage is one thing, but to simply write it off as neccesary is sickening.

While I don't agree with Israels actions, collateral damage is sometimes necessary. WWII had several examples of this. It doesn't make it a good thing, but the fact that it is bad does not change whether an action is required.

In this case only 2 people were killed, and it seems they were his bodyguard and his son who were also in the car. I would say they've managed far better than usual this time.

[Keevan_Colton]

Collateral damage is one thing, but to simply write it off as neccesary is sickening.

While I don't agree with Israels actions, collateral damage is sometimes necessary. WWII had several examples of this. It doesn't make it a good thing, but the fact that it is bad does not change whether an action is required.

In this case only 2 people were killed, and it seems they were his bodyguard and his son who were also in the car. I would say they've managed far better than usual this time.

Did you not notice aswell, the mention of people wounded?
Also, if this is a war, then wouldnt that justify the actions of the palastinian terrorists?
If it isnt a war then there is no justification for the actions of the israeli government.

[HemlockGrey]

While I don't agree with Israels actions, collateral damage is sometimes necessary. WWII had several examples of this. It doesn't make it a good thing, but the fact that it is bad does not change whether an action is required.

Can you try and spot the differences between Israel/Palestine and World War II? Can you also seriously suggest that there is no other way to kill someone besides firing large numbers of missiles into an occupied neighborhood?