World reaction to Israel's assassination

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-04-19 12:43pm

Israel is still has a good distance to go before comparisons with Nazigermany become legit.
The last time I checked they did not have had organized concentration camps for industrializied mass murder.

I'm sick of the comparison with one of the worst dictatorships of the last century being thrown around just to demonize.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-04-19 12:58pm

Thinkmarble wrote:Israel is still has a good distance to go before comparisons with Nazigermany become legit.
The last time I checked they did not have had organized concentration camps for industrializied mass murder.

I'm sick of the comparison with one of the worst dictatorships of the last century being thrown around just to demonize.

They have to risen to such "heights" yet.
But as I see it, they work hard to go equal with thier role-models. But they have to decieve the rest of the world, therefore they need longer.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-04-19 01:01pm

Thinkmarble wrote:Israel is still has a good distance to go before comparisons with Nazigermany become legit.

Would Israel have to kill 6 million Arabs before it can be compared to Nazi Germany? Do you even know the difference between the words "compare" and "equal"? You've mixing the two up.

The last time I checked they did not have had organized concentration camps for industrializied mass murder.

So?

I'm sick of the comparison with one of the worst dictatorships of the last century being thrown around just to demonize.

Sorry, Israel demonizes itself. Would you like to apologise some more, dipshit?

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-19 01:06pm

Thinkmarble wrote: Israel is still has a good distance to go before comparisons with Nazigermany become legit.
The last time I checked they did not have had organized concentration camps for industrializied mass murder.

hmmm now what do we need to make a concentration camp:

regime systematicly denies rights to citizens based on religion/race. check
2nd class citizens are segregated into ghettos. check
said citezens are relocated to 'refugee camps'. check
big walls and razor wire is put up toto keep in the inferiors. check
Lots of the aformentioned citizens are killed, often randomly. check
public relishes in slaughter of 2nd class citizens. check

wow, almost there!

Thinkmarble wrote:I'm sick of the comparison with one of the worst dictatorships of the last century being thrown around just to demonize.

well, if it walks like nazi, and quacks like a nazi.....

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-04-19 01:08pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:And I definitely believe Jordan recognizes Israel. Syria might not.

Jordan gave up its territorial claims on the West Bank in 1988 - the West Bank is unclaimed territory under nominal Israeli control, not occupied Jordanian territory.

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-04-19 01:19pm

BoredShirtless wrote: Would Israel have to kill 6 million Arabs before it can be compared to Nazi Germany? Do you even know the difference between the words "compare" and "equal"? You've mixing the two up.

The last time I checked they did not have had organized concentration camps for industrializied mass murder.
So?

That's my frigging point, if you want to compare Israel and Nazigermany they should have done compareable deeds, and also Israel is halfway there they still have not committed organized massmurder.

Sorry, Israel demonizes itself. Would you like to apologise some more, dipshit?

Sorry, did I say that the israeli government does not show a troubling disregard for human rights of the Palestinians as well as international law and the Geneva conventions ?
No, I did not.
THe world is not divided into apologists and people who compare Israel to Nazigermany, as weird as that may sound.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-04-19 01:27pm

BoredShirtless wrote:Ace Pace could hit back with "the West Bank and Gaza are NOT part of Israel, only the settlements". Then of course he'd have to admit Israel then settles into land beyond its borders. Oh, I just love the way Israel is free to redraw its borders, just because it can. Fucking. Assholes.

Yes, they are settling beyond the borders.

I'm not saying I like our current goverment or policy, JFYI

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-04-19 03:32pm

Thinkmarble wrote:That's my frigging point, if you want to compare Israel and Nazigermany they should have done compareable deeds,

But they have. What's confusing you is scale. A man who murders one person may not be as bad as Ted Bundy, but he's still comparable to Ted; he's a murderer, just like Ted was. Now, if you can show more and more comparisons between Ted and the murderer, they become more and more equivalent. Meaning, a comparison between the two starts making more and more sense.

No one said Israel is worse then the Nazi's, or equal; just very comparable. Refer to Crackpots post for the list of comparisons.

Sorry, did I say that the israeli government does not show a troubling disregard for human rights of the Palestinians as well as international law and the Geneva conventions ?
No, I did not.
THe world is not divided into apologists and people who compare Israel to Nazigermany, as weird as that may sound.

No shit. You then must be clueless to the definition of the word "comparable". The dictionary is your friend.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-04-19 04:36pm

Ace Pace wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:Ace Pace could hit back with "the West Bank and Gaza are NOT part of Israel, only the settlements". Then of course he'd have to admit Israel then settles into land beyond its borders. Oh, I just love the way Israel is free to redraw its borders, just because it can. Fucking. Assholes.
Yes, they are settling beyond the borders.

I'm not saying I like our current goverment or policy, JFYI

The settlers may be “beyond the borders” but they are protected by the IDF, live in government subsidised settlements hooked up to government subsidised (settler only) water and electricity supplies, travel upon Jewish only roads built by the government and vote in Israeli elections.

The roadmap talks of authorised and unauthorised settlements, how can the Israeli government authorise settling land in hasn’t claimed?

Israel certainly believes it has the right to destroy Palestinian houses built without permits from the Israeli government in the occupied territories. Why do the Palestinians need permits if Israel hasn’t claimed the land?

I was also under the impression that the Palestinians paid tax to Israel.

These examples and the many other ways in which Israel acts as if it has jurisdiction over the West Bank and Gaza Strip would suggest it has extended its borders in most significant ways short of giving the 3.5 million Palestinians living under occupation citizenship.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-04-19 05:47pm

About the "campaign of fear"; what evidence exists for it other than the exodus of 30,000-40,000 refugees? What did it constitute? Not denying it, just asking for some more information.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-04-19 07:15pm

HemlockGrey wrote:About the "campaign of fear"; what evidence exists for it other than the exodus of 30,000-40,000 refugees? What did it constitute? Not denying it, just asking for some more information.

The Deir Yassin Massacre was a fairly significant part of the “campaign” an excellent resource on this is:

www.deiryassin.org

Also I don’t normally like to quibble over statistics but the number of Palestinian refugees was in the hundreds not tens of thousands, with few honestly calculated figures of less than half a million suggested.

Post by **Edi** » 2004-04-20 04:37am

Thinkmarble wrote:Israel is still has a good distance to go before comparisons with Nazigermany become legit.
The last time I checked they did not have had organized concentration camps for industrializied mass murder.

I'm sick of the comparison with one of the worst dictatorships of the last century being thrown around just to demonize.

Comparisons between Israel and Germany of the 1930s are entirely legit, as they are directly analoguous in their behavior and several relevant laws. Israel is not quite comparable with the Nazi Germany of the 1940s when the extermination of Jews started, but the Nazi comparison is valid, your personal preferences to the contrary notwithstanding.

Edi

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-04-20 07:41am

Plekhanov wrote:I was also under the impression that the Palestinians paid tax to Israel.

These examples and the many other ways in which Israel acts as if it has jurisdiction over the West Bank and Gaza Strip would suggest it has extended its borders in most significant ways short of giving the 3.5 million Palestinians living under occupation citizenship.

They don't pay taxes, also, the goverment is terrified of taking 3.5 million more non jewish citizens, since then the jewish majority goes the hell out of the window.

Now excuse me, i'm starting to plan to emigrate.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-04-21 02:20am

Ace Pace wrote:They don't pay taxes,

Are you sure about that? Numerous news articles about taxes in the Occupied Territories seem to rather strongly suggest that the tax rate for Palestinians is somewhere above the 0% that you indicate.

also, the goverment is terrified of taking 3.5 million more non jewish citizens, since then the jewish majority goes the hell out of the window.

Hmm, let's try a little bit of word substitution:

Also, the South African apartheid government is terrified of taking millions of non-white citizens, since then the white majority goes the hell out of the window.

Yup, same logic.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-04-21 10:58am

I don't know which articles, but as far as its known here, they don't pay taxes, however arabs who live in israel, and vote in israel, do pay taxes.

Hmm, let's try a little bit of word substitution:

Also, the South African apartheid government is terrified of taking millions of non-white citizens, since then the white majority goes the hell out of the window.

Yup, same logic.

Never said its good.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-04-21 11:37am

Ace Pace wrote:I don't know which articles, but as far as its known here, they don't pay taxes, however arabs who live in israel, and vote in israel, do pay taxes.

According to this document, the Palestinians do indeed pay taxes towards Israeli authorities. They also seem to be taxed quite a bit more then in Israel proper.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-04-21 11:42am

The Kernel wrote:
Ace Pace wrote:I don't know which articles, but as far as its known here, they don't pay taxes, however arabs who live in israel, and vote in israel, do pay taxes.
According to this document, the Palestinians do indeed pay taxes towards Israeli authorities. They also seem to be taxed quite a bit more then in Israel proper.

K, mistake mine.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-04-21 01:31pm

The Kernel wrote:According to this document, the Palestinians do indeed pay taxes towards Israeli authorities. They also seem to be taxed quite a bit more then in Israel proper.

Well occupying people is an expensive business you know and I think it’s only fair that the Palestinians reimburse Israel for all the valuable services it provides them, you don’t think all those checkpoints, walls and battlefield weapons pay for themselves do you?

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-04-21 02:01pm

Plekhanov wrote: Well occupying people is an expensive business you know and I think it’s only fair that the Palestinians reimburse Israel for all the valuable services it provides them, you don’t think all those checkpoints, walls and battlefield weapons pay for themselves do you?

That better be sarcasm or else you better grab your flame-retardent suit...

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-04-21 02:04pm

Actually, a lot of what he mentioned is paid for by us, the good ole US of A.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-04-21 02:04pm

The Kernel wrote:
Plekhanov wrote: Well occupying people is an expensive business you know and I think it’s only fair that the Palestinians reimburse Israel for all the valuable services it provides them, you don’t think all those checkpoints, walls and battlefield weapons pay for themselves do you?
That better be sarcasm or else you better grab your flame-retardent suit...

I can't see it being much else

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-04-21 02:05pm

Sharp-kun wrote:
The Kernel wrote:
Plekhanov wrote: Well occupying people is an expensive business you know and I think it’s only fair that the Palestinians reimburse Israel for all the valuable services it provides them, you don’t think all those checkpoints, walls and battlefield weapons pay for themselves do you?
That better be sarcasm or else you better grab your flame-retardent suit...
I can't see it being much else

Yeah...I just noticed the past posts so I'm pretty sure you're right. Had to check, newbie and all...

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-04-21 02:12pm

Fuck, who the hell ever heard of a 55% flat income tax? I don't even think Sweeden is that Draconian. And lets face it, the Palestinians don't exactly get much return on their tax dollars.

Israel might as well just come out and say that they are treating Gaza and the West Bank as protectorates that they are squeezing tribute out of...

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-04-21 02:24pm

The Kernel wrote:
Plekhanov wrote: Well occupying people is an expensive business you know and I think it’s only fair that the Palestinians reimburse Israel for all the valuable services it provides them, you don’t think all those checkpoints, walls and battlefield weapons pay for themselves do you?
That better be sarcasm or else you better grab your flame-retardent suit...

Just to reassure I was being sarcastic, I thought I laid it on thick enough for people to tell but I suppose considering some of the stuff people come out I should have made it more obvious. Is there some board convention for indicating sarcasm that I should be aware of so this doesn’t happen again?

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-04-21 02:26pm

Plekhanov wrote: Just to reassure I was being sarcastic, I thought I laid it on thick enough for people to tell but I suppose considering some of the stuff people come out I should have made it more obvious. Is there some board convention for indicating sarcasm that I should be aware of so this doesn’t happen again?

Actually it was my bad for not reading your earlier posts, so don't worry about it.

Some people on the board choose to end their sarcastic remarks with [/sarcasm], but I think this is somewhat contrived. The problem is that you are still somewhat new; as people get to know you and your political/moral mindset, this problem will vanish. In the meantime, I really wouldn't worry about it.