an idea for riggin transporters onto ISD's

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-19 10:45am

what would be the feasability of rigging some type of 'conduit' into the structure of an ISD from a transporter pad to a structural weakpoint and transmitter in the outer hull? Something akin to fibreoptics. There could be several redundant conduits and weakpoints/transmitters and this would allow the use of outbound AND inbound transporter use for the ISD while still maintaining the ability to block unauthorized transports due to the desnity of the hull and structure. This would be useful in speeding embark/disembark times for the crew. It would also be useful in planetary assaults etc. What do you think?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-04-19 10:47am

It would be useful the first time they tried it. Once any tractorbeam-equipped enemy got wind of this tactic, they would simply start using their tractor beams the way they were used in "Attached" (TNG), and divert incoming assault teams into volcanoes or something.

PS. Actually, that would be pretty funny. "Weapons ready! Energize! What the- YEEEEAAARRRRGGHHH!!!"

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-19 10:53am

i'm not familliar with that episode.

However I would imagine that the use of such tactics would mean that the defenders would need to know not only the landing zone, but the exact time of transport. Otherwise they would be using their tractor beams on empty space or unoccupied air.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-19 10:56am

Darth Wong wrote:PS. Actually, that would be pretty funny. "Weapons ready! Energize! What the- YEEEEAAARRRRGGHHH!!!"

[Emeril Lagasse] Today we're makin' AT-AT gumbo. Jus' fire up th' tractor beam and BAM! Into the volcano! Ahhhh! listen to those babies sizzle! Now to kick it up a notch who want to toss in some Ties? BAM! [/Emeril Lagasse]

atkindave · Post by **atkindave** » 2004-04-19 12:20pm

The TOS Enterprise blueprints labels several areas of the hull as "skin transparent to energy." This is to allow the transporters to beam through the hull at these points IIRC.

Of course, fiber optics and conduits make more sense. I wouldn't want to be flying in space in a ship whose hull was "transparent to energy" even during regular flight, let alone combat...

Anyway, just thought I'd inject that.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-04-19 12:43pm

any blueprints you may have picked up are more than likely not canon. i wouldn't recommend using them as a guide for anything.

atkindave · Post by **atkindave** » 2004-04-19 01:03pm

Darth_Zod wrote:any blueprints you may have picked up are more than likely not canon. i wouldn't recommend using them as a guide for anything.

They're probably on the same level as "Mr. Scotts guide to the Enterprise" for the refit Enterprise and E-A. They did a good job, but they weren't done by ST guys.

If you look for them, you can see some of the deck plans on the bridge viewers of the ships in ST2 and ST3. (althouth obviously as filler, there are deck plans of the Enterprise's secondary hull on Reliant's bridge before Khan got on board).

In the part of ST3 where Chekhov calls the intruder alert, we can see his screen in detail. The deck plans seen are also from this set, but Spocks quarters would be on deck 5 according to the plans, not "c" deck or 3.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-04-19 01:06pm

as per paramount, the only material that's considered canon are the live action television shows, the movies and two Voyager books.

atkindave · Post by **atkindave** » 2004-04-19 02:07pm

Transporters aren't used that much in ST combat either, unless there's some serious technobabble going on.

Think about it: The type of target that you'd be sending an ISD after are likely to be either armored or shielded, or both, rendering transporters ineffective. Whether planetary or shipboard, the types of targets that could be vulnerable to transporter commandos would be few and far between, and probably wouldn't put up serious resistance to "standard" tactics anyway.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-19 02:16pm

atkindave wrote: Think about it: The type of target that you'd be sending an ISD after are likely to be either armored or shielded, or both, rendering transporters ineffective. Whether planetary or shipboard, the types of targets that could be vulnerable to transporter commandos would be few and far between, and probably wouldn't put up serious resistance to "standard" tactics anyway.

Targets like Hoth? Or Endor? Think of how much faster the Stormies and Walkers could have been deployed with some type of functioning transporter.

atkindave · Post by **atkindave** » 2004-04-19 02:26pm

Hoth and Endor were both shielded! They're exacly the type of target's I was talking about!

Granted, Hoth's shield was supposed to project toward the Death Star, but who's to say it wouldn't have interfered with the transporter? Everything else does.

It's moot anyway, by the time the ground would have called for reinforcements, the fleet was engaged (with their own shields up, that prevents beeming too)

atkindave · Post by **atkindave** » 2004-04-19 02:48pm

sorry, Endor's shield. I got excited.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-19 03:26pm

atkindave wrote:Hoth and Endor were both shielded! They're exacly the type of target's I was talking about!

Granted, Hoth's shield was supposed to project toward the Death Star, but who's to say it wouldn't have interfered with the transporter? Everything else does.

It's moot anyway, by the time the ground would have called for reinforcements, the fleet was engaged (with their own shields up, that prevents beeming too)

no they weren't. On Hoth, only the BASE was shielded, not the planet. if the planet was shielded then the transports filled with AT-AT's and Snowtroopers would have been unable to land. Endor was unshielded as you have pointed out. Also, simply beacuse transporters cannot penetrate shields does not mean thay cannot function near them. That is a pretty hefty leap in logic.

atkindave · Post by **atkindave** » 2004-04-19 03:57pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:no they weren't. On Hoth, only the BASE was shielded, not the planet. if the planet was shielded then the transports filled with AT-AT's and Snowtroopers would have been unable to land. Endor was unshielded as you have pointed out. Also, simply beacuse transporters cannot penetrate shields does not mean thay cannot function near them. That is a pretty hefty leap in logic.

At Endor, the rebels needed the Imps to lower the shield so they could land their transport near the base (a few hours walk away?), so the shield would have prevented beaming into the combat zone. Again, it was moot.

About Hoth, what's your point? There was a shield around the base that would have blocked planetary bombardment. It was probably a base shield rather than a planet shield, true, but you still couldn't beam through it! The battle would not have looked different with transporters. The Rebels were simply fighting a delaying action to get as much of their personnel and equipment away. If transporters were available, the rebels would have rigged some transport inhibitors (man-portable in STI) by the time the shield was destroyed to prevent beaming directly into or near the base. Or something more grisly as Mike pointed out.

My point remains, the sort of opponent you'd be using transporters against wouldn't stand up to standard tactics either.

1337n1nj4 · Post by **1337n1nj4** » 2004-04-19 04:23pm

The graphic at Admiral Ackbar's briefing before the attack on Endor showed both the moon and the Death Star completely covered by the shield.

If it hadn't, the Rebels wouldn't have needed to lower the shield before they could land and risk getting caught.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-19 06:09pm

1337n1nj4 wrote:The graphic at Admiral Ackbar's briefing before the attack on Endor showed both the moon and the Death Star completely covered by the shield.

It did? I don't recall seeing an energy field graphic around the moon, just the station.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-04-19 06:20pm

Actually I don't believe it did but still doesn't deny the fact that rebels didn't have an alternate longer ranged plan of landing elsewhere or destroying said installation through orbital means.

In TESB the Imperials wanted the Rebels alive, the Alliance would have no such compunctions against the Endor installation.

So to not hijack the thread in this tangent, if someone wishes to pursue this; present a theory that fits RoTJ that why would th rebellion opt for a route that would involve stealing a shuttle and shield codes or better still not bombard the installation from orbit if said shield did not encase both Endor and the DS2.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-04-20 07:06am

if the death star and the base are both within the shield, why would beaming stormies from orbit to the surface be an issue? both points are within the shield.

atkindave · Post by **atkindave** » 2004-04-20 09:27am

Col. Crackpot wrote:if the death star and the base are both within the shield, why would beaming stormies from orbit to the surface be an issue? both points are within the shield.

OK I'll concede that.

But if it were possible, then you'd have to concede obvious counter-tactics like the rebels carrying and deploying transport inhibitors. They would not have needed to cover a very large area with them, just a few miles around the back door. The battle still would not have looked different.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-04-20 09:04pm

I can see having Transporters on the ISD's and it not being a problem.

Imagine this: Armoring over the 'in/out' point when not in use.

They'd be amazing for landing operations in conjuction with a Torpedo Sphere attack:

Torpedoe sphere fires it's volley of 250 Proton Torpedoes, and drops the shields over the target area

Turbolaser fire on the shield generator, while at the same time, beam troops to the outsider of the dropped shield area in case the Turbolaser fire isn't enough.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-04-21 02:30am

Solauren wrote:Turbolaser fire on the shield generator, while at the same time, beam troops to the outsider of the dropped shield area in case the Turbolaser fire isn't enough.

And pray that the defender doesn't have any other countermeasures?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-04-21 02:31am

1337n1nj4 wrote:The graphic at Admiral Ackbar's briefing before the attack on Endor showed both the moon and the Death Star completely covered by the shield.

If it hadn't, the Rebels wouldn't have needed to lower the shield before they could land and risk getting caught.

That makes sense. If Endor was not shielded Rebel warships could simply destroy the DS2 shield generator from orbit. They would no longer need Luke and his team to sabotage it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-04-21 02:42am

evilcat4000 wrote:
1337n1nj4 wrote:The graphic at Admiral Ackbar's briefing before the attack on Endor showed both the moon and the Death Star completely covered by the shield.

If it hadn't, the Rebels wouldn't have needed to lower the shield before they could land and risk getting caught.
That makes sense. If Endor was not shielded Rebel warships could simply destroy the DS2 shield generator from orbit. They would no longer need Luke and his team to sabotage it.

I can't believe this is even being argued at all. It's beyond question that Endor had some kind of shield; the whole point of the Executor-approach scene was that they needed the access codes to get the Imperials to open the shield perimeter and let them in! The only question is how large this shield is.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-04-21 06:42pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Solauren wrote:Turbolaser fire on the shield generator, while at the same time, beam troops to the outsider of the dropped shield area in case the Turbolaser fire isn't enough.
And pray that the defender doesn't have any other countermeasures?

I didn't say it was fool proof. Just a possible use.

You have to admit, it has a higher chance of success then just a plain Turbolaser strike into the opened part of the shield.

Side note:
Do we have any indication that you can over-come transporter problems (i.e interference) by simple raw power? If so, I think a Star Destroyer or a Torpedo Sphere could put enough power into a Transporter beam to get through interference.
No, this is not part of my arguement or debate, just a 'interesting idea'

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-04-21 10:43pm

Solauren wrote:Side note:
Do we have any indication that you can over-come transporter problems (i.e interference) by simple raw power? If so, I think a Star Destroyer or a Torpedo Sphere could put enough power into a Transporter beam to get through interference.

No, this is not part of my arguement or debate, just a 'interesting idea'

Not from anything I've observed. In "Dagger Of The Mind", boosted power failed to overcome the shields at the Tantalus colony, and in "The Galileo Seven", transport function wasn't available until the ion storms over Taurus II had abated sufficently to allow beaming.