Fencing Advice

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-04-21 08:04am

Keevan_Colton wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:I reccomend grabbing the silly bit of tinfoil with your off hand and kick him in the nuts.
Unfortunately, that's against the rules, so are a lot of other things, such as offering your back to your opponent....possibly to prevent mooning them...I'm unsure on that one.

Rules shmolz.. better to use the book of dirty fithy tricks..after all thats how you stay alive when fighting.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-04-21 09:08am

Its gotta be great not being able to grab your opponents weapon which has no functioning edges ... deary me

A rapier has a few advantages over katana, tho, and a real katana handles quite differently to a bokken (at least the bokken I've used).

Sokartawi · Post by **Sokartawi** » 2004-04-21 02:24pm

Ghost Rider wrote:So who here trains with Boken?

*raises hand*

Got two of them, have to make use of ambidexterity. Still there is nothing around to learn any techniques from, so I just have to make things up and practice that.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-04-21 02:30pm

Stark wrote:Its gotta be great not being able to grab your opponents weapon which has no functioning edges ... deary me

A rapier has a few advantages over katana, tho, and a real katana handles quite differently to a bokken (at least the bokken I've used).

they've got their pluses and minuses on each side. a katana being a slashing weapon while a rapier being a thrusting one is naturally going to have majorly different offsets. the biggest being that rapiers allow for quick in and out hits.

ukamikazu · Post by **ukamikazu** » 2004-04-21 06:41pm

Ghost Rider wrote:So who here trains with Boken?

I do. I have used both traditional peachwood and iron wood, alternatingly.
Ultimately I switched from Kendo to Iaido because I preferred its more artistic, meditative qualities, but I still have not acquired a shenai which would be more appropriate for that sub-discipline.
Also, I find practicing Iaido makes one a bit more decisive, quick and not so hesitant. Good stuff for applying to real life.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-04-21 06:43pm

Bokken are better for practicing cutting exercises and forms, but for full on sparring exercises, you are much better and safer with a shina training wise.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-04-21 07:50pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:Bokken are better for practicing cutting exercises and forms, but for full on sparring exercises, you are much better and safer with a shina training wise.

True, but a hit to the neck with either hurts like a bitch.

And cool to see people use them.

As for live blades...once or twice, with someone either as good or much, much better then me...definitly a different experience.

mauldooku · Post by **mauldooku** » 2004-04-21 07:51pm

There are several answers, but all of them depend on how well you can execute them, your handwork and footwork skills.

If he's disengaging you, and it's more than once, he probably has better handwork. As a not-that-skilled E foil fencer, I encounter this problem often.

Personally, the thing that works for me the best is to follow Thirdfain's suggestion of playing distance games--slow retreat, followed by fast retreat to convince him to commit to the attack, then parry-riposte when you get out of distance. I'm more confident in my footwork in my handwork, so yeah

Also make note of how he sets up his fleche. Does he immediately execute it, without warning? Or does he make some sort of preparation? If it's the latter, you can always try for an attack-in-preparation, although that might also be a dodgy right-of-way issue depending on your director.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-04-21 09:12pm

That reminds me of one of the other rather stupid moments I've run into in fencing...such as the rules concerning lunges, which where I was basically boiled down to, you must move into a lunge or you dont have priority in terms of getting a touch...which struck me as more loony than most of the rules they trotted out, given that if you must move prior to landing the touch, you must tacitly give your opponent a massive clue of what you are doing. Which is right up there with invading russia in the "it's a bad idea" stakes.

There are entire styles which involve simply letting your opponent attack, then countering from a "defensive" position with no, aggressive move, parry and let them move through into your blow.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-04-21 09:17pm

As a beginning fencer, do you (vastly) more experienced guys have any footwork or, more importantly, handwork drills I can do by myself? I have a few I practice with my friends but I can't do that every day so I usually end up doing the same one or two footwork drills over and over.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2004-04-22 03:17am

HemlockGrey wrote:As a beginning fencer, do you (vastly) more experienced guys have any footwork or, more importantly, handwork drills I can do by myself? I have a few I practice with my friends but I can't do that every day so I usually end up doing the same one or two footwork drills over and over.

Do some stuff that seems counter-intuitive.

Retreat extend, Retreat En guarde etc etc

Also, I cannot stress enough: make sure your legs are in good shape. You need to remain mobile so you need strong leg muscles...and a good respiratory system. A few bouts before the one I mention in the OP, I *almost* lost a bout because my damn legs started to cramp up, making me a stationary target.

Also do a series of blade-work drills:

Beat direct
Beat disengage attack
Beat double disengage attack
Beat, doublé attack

And you can mix it up, throw in jump lunges, advance lunges or other variations on direct attacks instead of straight lunge.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-04-22 04:31am

Shadow WarChief wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:As a beginning fencer, do you (vastly) more experienced guys have any footwork or, more importantly, handwork drills I can do by myself? I have a few I practice with my friends but I can't do that every day so I usually end up doing the same one or two footwork drills over and over.
Do some stuff that seems counter-intuitive.

Retreat extend, Retreat En guarde etc etc

Also, I cannot stress enough: make sure your legs are in good shape. You need to remain mobile so you need strong leg muscles...and a good respiratory system. A few bouts before the one I mention in the OP, I *almost* lost a bout because my damn legs started to cramp up, making me a stationary target.

Also do a series of blade-work drills:

Beat direct
Beat disengage attack
Beat double disengage attack
Beat, doublé attack

And you can mix it up, throw in jump lunges, advance lunges or other variations on direct attacks instead of straight lunge.

Or my personal favorite..pull a paintball gun and shoot the bugger!!!

Long live the western way of war!

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-04-22 08:58am

Stuart Mackey wrote: Or my personal favorite..pull a paintball gun and shoot the bugger!!!
Long live the western way of war!

Or we can go back further...

Beat, grab wrist, lead off, stab in chest, kidneys or throat depending on prefrence....

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-04-22 12:33pm

Find Slim Eddies 2nd hand jewlery store, pay him 10%. Oh wait you mean actual fencing................

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-04-22 12:44pm

pplace posts deep in ground surround with concrete....

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2004-04-22 02:10pm

Fencing? I'd rather Trebuchet practice.

Nothing like Human-Powered Heavy Artillery!

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-04-22 03:20pm

Want to come within reach of my arming sword and say that? Better yet, my quarterstaff? You would not walk away unscathed. Because unlike silly fencers, I don't have to stay within a certain range and move back and forth in a straight line.

I think I can pretty much guarantee you that any experienced fencer would be able to beat the everliving shit out of you in anything resembling a swordfight.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-04-22 03:25pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
Want to come within reach of my arming sword and say that? Better yet, my quarterstaff? You would not walk away unscathed. Because unlike silly fencers, I don't have to stay within a certain range and move back and forth in a straight line.
I think I can pretty much guarantee you that any experienced fencer would be able to beat the everliving shit out of you in anything resembling a swordfight.

Actually, most likely not.

There are a lot of principles in fencing that cannot be carried over to real blade to blade combat. Not least the fact that the handling characteristics of fencing blades of all types handle nothing like a real blade.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-04-22 03:32pm

Yeah, I know, it's just annoying to see people going "Ahahaha, fencing sux0rs, I'm tough!"

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-04-22 03:33pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Yeah, I know, it's just annoying to see people going "Ahahaha, fencing sux0rs, I'm tough!"

It's like comparing chess to commanding an army when you compare fencing to using real blades.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2004-04-22 03:35pm

It really depends on the weapon you're using...Epee is the most realistic since there are basically no rules....and the whole body is a viable target: head, hand, feet, everything....whoever hits first gets the point

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-04-22 03:39pm

Shadow WarChief wrote:It really depends on the weapon you're using...Epee is the most realistic since there are basically no rules....and the whole body is a viable target: head, hand, feet, everything....whoever hits first gets the point

Realistic my fucking arse.

A touch to the tip of the little finger is considered as valid as a touch to the inner thigh or throat...and if landing that touch on the finger leaves your throat open for a counter?

It's not realistic in the least.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2004-04-22 04:01pm

Keevan_Colton wrote: Realistic my fucking arse.

A touch to the tip of the little finger is considered as valid as a touch to the inner thigh or throat...and if landing that touch on the finger leaves your throat open for a counter?

It's not realistic in the least.

Hence, my usage of the word "most"

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-04-22 04:07pm

Shadow WarChief wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote: Realistic my fucking arse.

A touch to the tip of the little finger is considered as valid as a touch to the inner thigh or throat...and if landing that touch on the finger leaves your throat open for a counter?

It's not realistic in the least.
Hence, my usage of the word "most"

That's like saying of neon, argon and water, water is the most flammable!

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-04-22 04:14pm

biggest problem with fencing in and of itself is that there's too many rules and restrictions one has to observe to be of any decent skill in the sport. Much like some martial arts such as wushu which emphasizes more on style and looking pretty over actual practicality.