What people see in religion

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2002-07-15 08:52pm

Ah the age old question by atheists. So far, I believe two of the main reasons are:

1. In order to feel part of a group, to belong.
2. To feel as if they are serving some higher purpose.

Another, not-so-widely discussed reason might be "fire insurance." People join just for a "safety net."

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

"When men are at war, even the wrath of God does not frighten them."

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-07-15 09:54pm

That's the gist of it, basically. It's not as if religion has never done good for the world (who am I to say that Jesus isn't keeping some kid off drugs and out of gangs?), but it's done a whole lot more bad over the years.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-15 10:06pm

Religion BAD
1. Dark Ages
2. Inquesitions
3. Witch Trials
4. Crusades
Oh wait this is entirely Christianitys Fault so far hmm lemme see....
6. Errrrrrrr
7. Ahh Modern Day Islamic extremists but wait they say they are not Islamic at all

Hmm could we shorten this and say the Christian Religion has done the most damage of the rest? I've read my historys and Islam is filled with three or four periods of Golden Years of Tecnolocial Advnacement
Judism was never big enough to realy have anything like that.

Hinidism, While the commited some atroacitsys with the Islamic people its not as bad just long lived
Buddism- Buddism? Lol Heck no Violence Free Religion that acutal sticks to that

Hmm is it just me or is it Christianity that is opposed the most to Advancement, All the big bad anti-science things came from it along with most of the Nasty Wars and what-not

Opions thoughts?
Oh and to stay on topic I belive strongly religion is a crutch for those who need somthing to belive in

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-15 10:19pm

Another, not-so-widely discussed reason might be "fire insurance." People join just for a "safety net."

Also called Easter bunnies in the South. They go to church on Easter and Christmas "just in case."

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-07-15 10:50pm

Once upon a time, religion served the function that science does now: to describe and explain the universe.

As it grew, it also usurped the role of societal organizations such as tribal councils and on a larger scale, national governments. It began to see itself as the sole arbiter of laws and ethics.

Today, it has lost the first job to science, which has proven itself to be vastly superior. Therefore, it is desperately struggling to hang onto the second job. You can't sit through a single Sunday sermon without hearing annoying and often hatemongering tirades about the evils of those who go through life without God.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-15 11:04pm

Traiditonal though Relgion has always been the worst with laws though.. Or that was the impression I had
(Just look at Religion based Goverments...)

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-15 11:16pm

Darth Wong wrote:Once upon a time, religion served the function that science does now: to describe and explain the universe.

As it grew, it also usurped the role of societal organizations such as tribal councils and on a larger scale, national governments. It began to see itself as the sole arbiter of laws and ethics.

Today, it has lost the first job to science, which has proven itself to be vastly superior. Therefore, it is desperately struggling to hang onto the second job. You can't sit through a single Sunday sermon without hearing annoying and often hatemongering tirades about the evils of those who go through life without God.

You go to church?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-07-15 11:17pm

Don't let yourself be taken in by Dubya's ridiculous rantings. Islam is not a "religion of peace," any more than Christianity or Judaism. They all have the Old Testament as part of their Holy Book Series! How peaceful can these people be?

Furthermore, Hinduism advocates a caste system in which socioeconomic advancement is impossible, which is positively reprehensible.

Buddhism is about the only major religion that I can think of that hasn't caused a whole lot of trouble.

But yes, that's how religion first came about. Primitive people see a lightning bolt. Some guy with political ambition goes, "It's a sign from God that I should be ruler!" and all the gullible people agree. Thus was born religion.

Now, the faithless Christians have to convince themselves that their faith is grounded in logic with circular reasoning and fallacy. It's pretty sad.

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2002-07-16 01:15am

Thank goodness we have people like you Durandul to remind us of your beliefs over and over and over and over and over again.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2002-07-16 03:26pm

Durandal wrote:Buddhism is about the only major religion that I can think of that hasn't caused a whole lot of trouble.

Actually, Buddhism caused quite a bit of civil strife in Japan - there were a few minor wars and other such unpleasantness between Buddhist and Shinto samurai...

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2002-07-16 03:37pm

Methinks Durandal doth protest too much.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-07-16 04:04pm

From my experience, non-fundie Christians are religious because it makes them feel more comfortable with the world around them. They believe that their god is watching over them, helping them in the long run. If something bad happens, its "God's will," and is therefore good for unknown reasons. They feel safe just like a child does when with its parents. They believe that if you don't accept and believe in Jesus, you must be "hurting" on the inside. They simply can't handle the notion that the world is what we make of it. They rather feel safe in their dilusions. What a shame.

The fundies on the other hand, are just plain dumbasses.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2002-07-16 04:29pm

I'm religious (Catholic, to be exact) because it makes more sense to me than being non-religious. But I acknowledge and accept that there are people who don't care or believe that it doesn't make sense. This does not bother me - IMO, doing the right thing is about infinitely more important to God than believing "the right thing."

<rantmode=on>
What DOES bother me is when arrogant bastards try to tell me I'm stupid or deluded. Even better are the bitter little shits who froth at the mouth and call all Christians evil, especially when they can't come up with any better reason than sins of the father that were old news three centuries before I was born. I slashed the tires of your fucking karma, bitch.

If you are one of those bastards, keep your mouth shut and think whatever you want about me to yourself. If you can't do that, then fuck you.

And while I'm ranting, I'd like to take a moment on those fucking fish. I don't care whether you've got a Jesus fish, a Darwin fish, a Jesus fish eating a Darwin fish, or a Darwin fish eating a Jesus fish. It's FUCKING LAME, and it started being so about three seconds after the first "ME TOO!" lamer bought one of those fuckers and slapped it on the back of his car in imitation of the first guy he saw doing that. IT'S OLD. GET OVER IT. THE ONLY PEOPLE WITH A GOOD REASON TO PUT THOSE FISH ANYWHERE HAVE BEEN DEAD FOR ABOUT EIGHTEEN CENTURIES, OR LIVE IN COUNTRIES WHOSE NAMES END IN -STAN.
<rantmode=off>

End rant. Thank you.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-07-16 05:00pm

aren't you a little old to have imaginary friends?

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2002-07-16 05:24pm

USAF Ace wrote:aren't you a little old to have imaginary friends?

<sarcasm>Oh, I am truly wounded to the quick.</sarcasm>

Meghel · Post by **Meghel** » 2002-07-17 07:18am

Mr Bean wrote:Religion BAD
1. Dark Ages
2. Inquesitions
3. Witch Trials
4. Crusades
Oh wait this is entirely Christianitys Fault so far hmm lemme see....
6. Errrrrrrr

Nice, you sure are Western-Based.
Let us not forget the Jihad, the Mongol Horder, The Huns, South-American human sacrifices. Do you want me to compile a list of attrocities NOT committed by Christianity. It will be several A-4's though.

And in what ways are the Christians responsible for the Dark Ages. I would LOVE to see you explain this one.

7. Ahh Modern Day Islamic extremists but wait they say they are not Islamic at all

And you believe them??

Hmm could we shorten this and say the Christian Religion has done the most damage of the rest? I've read my historys and Islam is filled with three or four periods of Golden Years of Tecnolocial Advnacement
Judism was never big enough to realy have anything like that.

Great. Four periods of Golden Technological Advancements. Do you mind to see for yourself how the Islamitic Area is doing at the moment???

Christian Religion is responsible for the resurrection of reading and writing in the Western World. It is responsible for the printing press.

It is responsible for Democracy and our current way of life.

Where do you live anyway?

Hmm is it just me or is it Christianity that is opposed the most to Advancement, All the big bad anti-science things came from it along with most of the Nasty Wars and what-not

Again. Who are the most advanced at the moment? Are it the Islamist nations, or the Budhist nations or the Hinduist Nations??

Opions thoughts?
Oh and to stay on topic I belive strongly religion is a crutch for those who need somthing to belive in

Excuse me, mr I.diot, but if you start like that, you can get up in a tree. You sound like one of those Atheists who just love to crack down upon Christianity and bash it.

Well, what do YOU believe in?

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2002-07-17 08:26am

Christianity didn't cause the Dark Ages - the fall of the Empire caused them. Which was not caused by Christianity (since the Christian Byzantine Empire lasted for another several centuries) but by a combination of factors including a series of weak Emperors, poor decision-making which allowed barbarians to settle west of the Danube River (thus preventing the Empire from using the Danube as a natural "wall" to keep them out), increasing citification of the Roman populace, and so forth. The increasing corruption of the state Pagan religion of the Roman Empire was a major supporting cause (by the time Christianity became the state religion of the Empire, the whole thing was in its death slide. If anything, the Christian influence prolonged the life of the Empire by checking its self-destructively hedonistic excesses).

By the way: Want to know why Christianity supplanted Mithraism? It's really quite simple - blame it on the women. See, the Mithras cult, like most other Roman religions (with the notable exception of Judeo-Christianity) preached that the wife had to be faithful to her husband. However, the reverse was not true. Compared to the pagan religions of the time, Christianity was a MUCH better deal for the women. Mithraism wouldn't even allow women to participate, and THAT was its downfall - it created a barrier between the Mithraist solders and their stay-at-home wives.

Here's another bit of fun trivia: Mithraist soldiers wore their red, heavy, ten-pound woolen cape suspended by nipple rings. Keep that painful image in your mind for a moment or two, because it gets better.

Wool gets INCREDIBLY heavy when wet, and beyond that, it often got yanked on in the heat of battle. This frequently tore the soldier's nipples to hell, which I'm sure wasn't particularly pleasing to their wives, either. Really, I think if more people understood the facts about the fall of the ancient Roman religions before Christianity, they'd realize that it wasn't the result of some government conspiracy, it's just that Christianity was a much better choice than the alternatives.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-17 08:59am

I kind I will answear

Let us not forget the Jihad, the Mongol Horder, The Huns, South-American human sacrifices. Do you want me to compile a list of attrocities NOT committed by Christianity. It will be several A-4's though

Jihad, means struggle, Not Holy War, There is no refrence in the Koran for a "Holy War" infact you can check out the Decemeber and Janauray Issues of Time and Newsweek Respectly they both did a full ten page aritcul on the Koran, Holy War, Osama, and how Islam got started, The Huns, Pagen Right, where they movtivated by Reiligon? I thought it was just a feel good march arcoss Asia and Europe cause they got kicked out of China, South-American Human Sacrifices are part of thier reiligon, And yes there have been quite a few attroricties but unlike the Invading Christian Army(Cheered on by the Pope mind you) Islam did not burn/Loot Citys and kill everyone to the Child Born yesterday, They did not rape and defile the women(Islam has strict guildlines aginst this and inculedes refernece to remove that which let them commit the act in the first place, in the case of the Thief its the hand, The Rapist? Well... you know)
Mongols kicked ass and took names what does that have to do with religion?

And in what ways are the Christians responsible for the Dark Ages. I would LOVE to see you explain this one

Proloning not starting exuse me if I did not make that clear enough, Dark ages where charatirsed by a bunch of small kingdoms and who go around doing stuff that broke six out of the Top ten on the Christian No No list befopre breakfast and Kings who where in power *Because they where divine and allowed power of everything in thier Kingdom
Oh and BURNING Scientists did not help much as everything new was feared, and Feared Violently

And you believe them??

And you do? Most Religions have a do and do not do list, when you violate everything on the Do NOT list most religions tend to excommuncate you or otherwise kick you out. Hilter was a Christian but you don't see me bringing him up as an example why? Because the Chrisitans excommuncated him due to what he did(Bit of Triva, Hitler according to insiders planed *The Final Solution one weekend in 1937 while in Mass)

Great. Four periods of Golden Technological Advancements. Do you mind to see for yourself how the Islamitic Area is doing at the moment

Red Herring the Currant Diffcultys are the fact the main sources of Income for the Middle East are Tenous oh and the Jews came back and don't want a peaceful solution(Jews did very well under Islamic rule untill the 1940s when they came back kicked everyone out and said in effect we where here first, screw you!)
Look at Saudi-Arabia
Good calm peacful Country, Look at Kuwait, its much better now, Iran and Iraq are both in trouble because they violated Rule number 5, Never attack another Islamic Country, Jorden is screwing itself over in a varity of colorful ways. And you can respond well so what? The thing is for every Islamic Country with Problems, I can find an Equal Christian Country with the same problems

It is responsible for Democracy and our current way of life.

Democracy from Chrisitanity? Hardly, Democracy has its roots in Athens and other such great citys,
Also why the specific statment of seperation of Church and State specificed in the Consititution?

Christian Religion is responsible for the resurrection of reading and writing in the Western World
It is responsible for the printing press.

Its also responsible for the supression of Reading and Writing in the Western World for the five hundred years before that! The only religion that has every stress the Important of reading and writing untill much after the fact is Islam, One of the things it asks you to do is know the Koran, and its hard to know the Koran without being able to read if not write.
And the SUCCSEFULNESS of the Printing Press is thanks to the Demand for Bibles not its Creation

Again. Who are the most advanced at the moment? Are it the Islamist nations, or the Budhist nations or the Hinduist Nations??

Secluar Countrys
Seculuar "Godless" Countrys traditional do the best, The US is a Secluar Country, The Christian elements have not been added till very recently and even they are being striped away, Under God was added in 1954 and In God we Trust was added during the second World War, As for Islam SA is fast becoming advanced because as the saying goes, Talent goes where the Money is, And thats one thing they have plenty of to spare for the next thirty to fifty years.

America is a great Country but its greatness comes from other Countrys, Flip any product you find over in the Supermarket, Made in Taiwan is proudly displaid there, Or Mexcio or China or Japan or any one of a Dozen Asia Countrys, Up until Recently our Computers and chips came from Japan now we make the in Taiwan. Our weapons are made for the most part elsewhere if it where not for the Gobal Ecnomy America will be hit, hard, very hard by the fact we a great net importer of things.

Excuse me, mr I.diot, but if you start like that, you can get up in a tree. You sound like one of those Atheists who just love to crack down upon Christianity and bash it.

As Mr Wong said in not so many words, The Less intellgant you are the more likely you are to be Religious,
I bash on all religions Equaly BTW

If you wanted to pin a religion on me you'll find you can't, calling me an Athiest is not quite true either
What you see me as depends all on your prospective

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2002-07-18 04:27am

As Mr Wong said in not so many words, The Less intellgant you are the more likely you are to be Religious,
I bash on all religions Equaly BTW - Mr Bean

I'm not sure what to make of that exactly. Are you qualifying "intelligent" strictly by educational background? Can you please prove that assumption?

XPViking

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-07-18 06:47am

Meghel wrote:Again. Who are the most advanced at the moment? Are it the Islamist nations, or the Budhist nations or the Hinduist Nations??

And yeah right, thats because of the religion

Previously it was the muslim states that where more advanced, well thats one ego booster removed.

Why did the western world get the technological advantage?
Simple, because after the crusades the islam world transformed into a darker version so to speak, people became alot more fundamentalistic, and we all know that fundamentalism = crap.

The opposite happened in the western world, religion gained less influence in general life over time and in areas of science too, it still had some yes, like say Gallileio?

And then was the new outlook on the Christian faith, this less restriced life style was and is _the key_ to the western worlds success.

Whilst the muslim faith become more fundamentalist and imposing the Christian faith became more openminded and less imposing.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-18 08:06am

Exuse me for not making that clear

I'm not sure what to make of that exactly. Are you qualifying "intelligent" strictly by educational background? Can you please prove that assumption?

Who said anything about Educational Background?
I ment in general Religious people have a lower overal intellgance than say non-Religious or heck even Intellgance specfic religions(Taosim, Buddism)

To look at say Caltholisism
All your answears are provided for you
Have a problem? Go to the minister he has all the canned answears you could want

General "smart" people rarly take things at face value
And most religions can not provided anything beyond face value thus my comment of intellgance is not normaly a thing religions are overflowing with
Oh and in case you acutal read what I said instead of neah-jerk reaction
I was paraprashing what Wong Said

If you want a fuller more detailed explination then I'm willing to give at six in the morning PM him

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2002-07-18 08:16am

Mr Wong, this thread is so insulting, so disgustingly ignorance-filled, that I can stand it no more. I please ask you to lock despite your own proclivities.

I have just been insulted in every possible way, from my heart to my intelligence to the very wothwhileness of my existence, by people who apparently neither care nor realize it.

I am considering leaving the forum.

And that's noteven counting the complete historical innacuracies so mind-boggling that it is obvious to me *some* posters have hardly opened a history book, much less actualy comprehended the scale of interaction of religion on people and society. This entire thread appears to have become a huge "Bash Christianity and Religion" fest, if was not to begin with.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-07-18 08:49am

I would reccomend you show these historical inaccuracies and ignorance instead.

I do see some people "bashing christianity", I'd like to think I haven't.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-18 09:03am

Yep I've been

bashing christianity

But I also give equal time to bash Hindism, Buddism and Islam

Why?
Because with a few exceptions Religions are pretty simliar to each other

Lock the thread if you like I got my point across

Even if it took a few corrections and explinations to get it all the way across
I mearly point out facts, when I'm wrong I admit it
If the world is not pretty then I'm sorry for making you see that, But you had to learn sooner or later

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2002-07-18 09:09am

Because I know if I open my k4w411 mouth here I'm going to unleash a string of unholy profanities longer than man's list of sins.