Sharon says Pledge on Arafat is off.

[Sharp-kun]

I'd like to see someone show possible positives from Arafats assassination.

Someone taking over that will allow the police to crack down on Hamas?

[BoredShirtless]

I'd like to see someone show possible positives from Arafats assassination.

Someone taking over that will allow the police to crack down on Hamas?

What police? Israel has basically gutted the PA's security force. I can't dig up a source cause I gotta run.

[Plekhanov]

People, don't forget Arafat is an elected leader.

..........

*chokes self to death Laughing*

Like the president of Syria is an elected leader, or the Egyptian President?

Lets not forget that Saddam Hussein was an elected leader! In fact, he was so popular that he won 99% of the vote in his last election!

Arafat is still a heck of a lot more “elected” than any Sharon & Bush approved leader would be, do any of you really think that the Palestinians (many of whom have already abandoned Arafat for the likes of Hamas) would accept such a blatant puppet.

[Plekhanov]

I'd like to see someone show possible positives from Arafats assassination.

Someone taking over that will allow the police to crack down on Hamas?

Who is this "someone"?

How will they be chosen?

Do they have to be acceptable to Sharon, who you seem do think has a right to kill Palestinian leaders you and he dislike?

If so how will the newly appointed leader gain any form of legitimacy and acceptability to the Palestinian people?

How are they supposed to "crack down” on Hamas when the Israelis have so methodically decimated the PA’s security services?

Basically what can you reasonably expect to happen after Arafat’s murder and how will that improve things?

Unless you can answer even some of these questions charging headlong into murdering Arafat will eventually provide a case study along side Bush’s invasion of Iraq as an example of ill thought out, gung-ho, kill first and think about the consequences later policy making.

[MKSheppard]

Who is this "someone"?

Anyone but Arafat.

How will they be chosen?

Gee, I dunno, that's up to the PA.

Do they have to be acceptable to Sharon

Anyone but arafat would be acceptabul, as long as
he isn't too badly tainted with blood on his hands
and shows a willingness to crack the fuck down on
Hamas.

If so how will the newly appointed leader gain any form of legitimacy and acceptability to the Palestinian people?

Legimitacy? Arafat was never really elected, and he's a fucking EGYPTIAN.

How are they supposed to "crack down” on Hamas when the Israelis have so methodically decimated the PA’s security services?

Funny, I didn't know it was that hard to find enough unemployed men
in the west bank to shoot a gun for $$$.

Unless you can answer even some of these questions charging headlong into murdering Arafat will eventually provide a case study along side Bush’s invasion of Iraq as an example of ill thought out, gung-ho, kill first and think about the consequences later policy making.

Arafat has had forty years to change. He hasn't. It's Time, More than Time he goes.

[Plekhanov]

Who is this "someone"?

Anyone but Arafat.

Like anyone of the 20,000+ Palestinians who demonstrated against the murder of Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi?

How will they be chosen?

Gee, I dunno, that's up to the PA.

The same PA who’s leader you just had summarily executed? I guess that’s a great organisation just let down by its figurehead, I’m sure the (Arrafat appointed governing councils) will choose more acceptably this time.

Do they have to be acceptable to Sharon

Anyone but arafat would be acceptabul, as long as
he isn't too badly tainted with blood on his hands
and shows a willingness to crack the fuck down on
Hamas.

Acceptable to who? Its odd that you seem to think Sharon would be content to murder one Palestinian leader and then take no interest in who replaces the deceased.
Israel have been “cracking the fuck down” upon Hammas for quite a while now (unless you think they’ve been going easy on them) with questionable success, why are the far less capable PA security forces(which as has previously been pointed out have been decimated by the IDF) going to do any better?

If so how will the newly appointed leader gain any form of legitimacy and acceptability to the Palestinian people?

Legimitacy? Arafat was never really elected, and he's a fucking EGYPTIAN.

However illegitimate you regard Arafat he’s infinitely more legitimate in the eyes of Palestinians than any Sharon puppet replacement will ever be, regardless of the birthplace of the said puppet.

How are they supposed to "crack down” on Hamas when the Israelis have so methodically decimated the PA’s security services?

Funny, I didn't know it was that hard to find enough unemployed men
in the west bank to shoot a gun for $$$.

Men who would have no qualms about turning these guns upon fellow country men who also happen to be “heroes of the resistance” and who have no fear of reprisals for being collaborators?

Unless you can answer even some of these questions charging headlong into murdering Arafat will eventually provide a case study along side Bush’s invasion of Iraq as an example of ill thought out, gung-ho, kill first and think about the consequences later policy making.

Arafat has had forty years to change. He hasn't. It's Time, More than Time he goes.

OK so we’ve established you don’t like Arafat, so he goes… and is replaced by which workable alternative?

[Xon]

Christ, the message still hasn't sunk in...you shouldn't assassinate people! Especially leaders. Do you know how WW1 started? Right; an assassination.

It was a just a tad more complex that a single assassination.

And last I checked, the Palestinians dont have multipule powerful countries pledged to defend them if they get attacked.

[moku]

Last time you checked must have been a while ago. Why the hell does nobody move a finger when the Israeli's shoot a ATS missile into a full motorway, claiming that the car they spontaneously hit held some dude who spoke some ant-israeli words and perhaps fumbled a gun? Probably because the rest of the damn world is scared shitless of the Mossad and the US, after all, they're best buddies.

How can a president of a country say he will assassinate another president? Something called the UN and human rights. Guess they don't apply eh? And the UN does the same. Just sit there and don;t move a toe out of place... A disgrace. Anyone else 15 and concerned?

[Xon]

<snipped random shitty mutterings of a newbie>

In WW1 & WW2, the various powerful countries stood by their alliances and entered military conflict as a result of their treaty obligations.

Unless I've really have been asleep at the wheel, I dont know of any nation which has declaired war as a direct result of Israel's actions against the Palestinians who actually counts on the global level.

Having a nation express "harsh words", or being "deeply toubled" by Israel's actions doesnt count.

And the UN was designed from the start as a forum in which the USA and USSR could interact via a neutral body. It was never designed to be anything but a forum for countries to debate in a 'neutral' setting.

[moku]

That is correct. And doesn't our judical system dsay if someone is guilty of a crime? Aren't courts supposed to charge folks (including, last time I opened my law book, polititians?) on crimes (including terrorism).
Now if what they teach you at high school, primary school, college and uni is correct (as I presume) and what the majority of our population on this planet does, how the hell can somebody such as Bush or Sharon decide to punish people by death!?!? Isn't that what the War Crimes Tribunal is for?

[Keevan_Colton]

That is correct. And doesn't our judical system dsay if someone is guilty of a crime? Aren't courts supposed to charge folks (including, last time I opened my law book, polititians?) on crimes (including terrorism).
Now if what they teach you at high school, primary school, college and uni is correct (as I presume) and what the majority of our population on this planet does, how the hell can somebody such as Bush or Sharon decide to punish people by death!?!? Isn't that what the War Crimes Tribunal is for?

You are forgetting the two big principles a lot of americans apply to the world beyond their borders:-

a) Might Makes Right.
b) They are all forigners so fuck 'em.

This is of course when they arent trying to impose the US constiution on the universe. Enjoy your foray into the realm of geopolitics...it's not a nice or sane place.

[MKSheppard]

That is correct. And doesn't our judical system dsay if someone is guilty of a crime? Aren't courts supposed to charge folks (including, last time I opened my law book, polititians?) on crimes (including terrorism).

We tried that for eight years. Now we just send Special Forces
to kill them before they can even get into the country.

[Keevan_Colton]

We tried that for eight years. Now we just send Special Forces
to kill them before they can even get into the country.

See above.

[MKSheppard]

See above.

Would you rather a Special Forces team make them all take a dirt nap
in some god forsaken African shithole where they've been training for
a terrorist incident, or the police try to arrest them in a major metropolitan
area when they've gotten all the materials together, and are about to pull
off the job?

Look what happened in Spain when they tried to arrest those guys - scratch
one building and KIA several cops. By the very nature of our laws, you can't
really hold anyone unless they've got irrevocable evidence that yes, they're
gonna go blow a buildiing up, and have detailed plans of the building and
several tons of ammonium nitrate in their truck. Anything less than that
and they'll probably walk on cries of "racists! how dare you think arabs are terrorists!"

[Colonel Olrik]

One cop, shep, not several. The rest of the dead were all terrorists.

[MKSheppard]

See above.

AH, I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning from a Brit. I thought
that SAS wasn't being used to kill poor defenseless Irishmen, but instead
was training to defeat the Red Bear if he ever rolled across Europe.



We're merely doing what you've been doing since the 70s, except
we're doing it against much more politically correct targets in a much
more PC climate.

[MKSheppard]

One cop, shep, not several. The rest of the dead were all terrorists.

Ah, my bad. You want something scary. Imagine those terrorists having
chemical weapons or some anthrax of some sort, and releasing it just
as the cops are storming the front door.

Now you know why I insist on interdicting them with the military well before
they can get inside our countries.

[Colonel Olrik]

Ah, my bad. You want something scary. Imagine those terrorists having
chemical weapons or some anthrax of some sort, and releasing it just
as the cops are storming the front door.

Since they were special ops I guess they were using protection against those..

[Keevan_Colton]

Frankly Shep, your a stupid bloodthristy dickhead. You assume I must support what britain did in the 70's...which it so happens is BEFORE I was born. Cant really argue much about that eh?

I disagree with extrajudicial killings no matter who's doing them, the fact is right now there are two major offenders, the US of A and it's favourite little cocksucker Israel. Here's an idea...in N. Ireland, did britain use artillery counterfire against terrorist mortar attacks? No...oh the US must be teh evil.

Shep, if you cant even see that your approach is basically, law doesnt apply to forigners and that might makes right, your even stupider than I thought you were.

[MKSheppard]

Since they were special ops I guess they were using protection against those..

What about the civilians in the area? They're screwed essentially.

[MKSheppard]

Shep, if you cant even see that your approach is basically, law doesnt apply to forigners and that might makes right, your even stupider than I thought you were.

International Law doesn't apply to terrorists. They do not have the backing
of a state, hence fair game on them. Why do you think the military is allowed
to use hollowpoints on them, when it's banned for use against other soldiers?

[Keevan_Colton]

International Law doesn't apply to terrorists. They do not have the backing
of a state, hence fair game on them. Why do you think the military is allowed
to use hollowpoints on them, when it's banned for use against other soldiers?

Because you're playing the a war with an idea is not a real war game there. Plus nicely sidestepping the notion of people being citizens of nations other than the US...

Drug dealers dont have the backing of a nation, do you get to use hollowpoints on them?
Common thieves dont have the backing of a government is it ok to use hollowpoints on them?

Oh, no wait...they still get due process...nevermind.

[Colonel Olrik]

Since they were special ops I guess they were using protection against those..

What about the civilians in the area? They're screwed essentially.

Hmm, an improvised release of antrax or some chemical product in a neighbourhood previously cleared by the police (no civilian died in the explosion) and already filled with special ops to handle the situation? Bleh.. Doesn't sound very dangerous.

[Keevan_Colton]

They do not have the backing
of a state, hence fair game on them.

Er, hold up a sec, why the fuck did Afghanistan get invaded then?

[MKSheppard]

Drug dealers dont have the backing of a nation, do you get to use hollowpoints on them?
Common thieves dont have the backing of a government is it ok to use hollowpoints on them?

Yes and Yes. May I suggest some black Talons

Oh, no wait...they still get due process...nevermind.

Oh wait, they're mere crack dealers, not members of a supra-national
terrorist organization devoted to killing scores of people and toppling us
into a new dark age theocracy.