STGOD 4 OOC Thread

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-04-26 01:20am

Look, magic is pretty clearly a weird, special-case thing. It clearly fucks around with physics on a very large scale, and perhaps in a fashion which is obvious to sensors. I don't know how Pablo will want to play this.

I

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-04-26 01:25am

Yeah, you are kind of right. Laz's methods are hardly legit, but then again, so are Alyriums... Lets just wait for Pablo to give a ruling on this. I personally think the whole encounter should be scrapped and Laz's ship should be allowed to carry out its diplomatic negotiations.

And, for future reference, I will question any situation posted by Alyrium where the content is "I get out of trouble cuz my mages are so damn badass." Nothing personal, really, but I dont think magic should be used as an excuse at every point. The DND parallels are legit, but if that gives you capabilities that are outside our set DS9 tech level (as they are close to doing), you gotta pull it back half a notch.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-04-26 01:33am

Bugsby makes a great point- you canuse your magic to bring your nation up to DS9 tech levels, but you can't use it as an excuse to beat the limit.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-04-26 03:19am

I would say that, chances are, the wizard is pretty well screwed, as I recall wizards have the tendency to be fairly "fragile". He was taken at unawares, transported from the surface to orbit, an event which would most likely leave him a little disoriented, shot to the point where he was no longer conscious, then a small snake like critter chewed through the back of his neck and attached itself to his CNS. There is nothing to cast spells on anymore. However, it wouldn't be too late to play the suicide card; the mind of the wizard and the symbiote struggle for control, in the end neither win and the wizard becomes a vegetable.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-04-26 03:31am

Thirdfain wrote:I should point out, also, that your vessels tend towards small, and as such could probably be tugged by a large Pirate freighter.

I just looked over your OOB Alyrium; your ships are tiny, the tractor beams on most capital warships could toss your little escorts like toy cars and even the capital ships could be held in place without difficult, at least for a couple minutes.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-26 04:15am

InnocentBystander wrote:I would say that, chances are, the wizard is pretty well screwed, as I recall wizards have the tendency to be fairly "fragile". He was taken at unawares, transported from the surface to orbit, an event which would most likely leave him a little disoriented, shot to the point where he was no longer conscious, then a small snake like critter chewed through the back of his neck and attached itself to his CNS. There is nothing to cast spells on anymore. However, it wouldn't be too late to play the suicide card; the mind of the wizard and the symbiote struggle for control, in the end neither win and the wizard becomes a vegetable.

That still raises the problem of how the hell Laz locked onto that wizard.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 08:31am

That still raises the problem of how the hell Laz locked onto that wizard.

I figured that somthing powerfull enough to bend the laws of time/space would at least show up as a blip on sensors.

But if that's not ok, I could just say I had a spy on the surfase shoot him with the 'zat, and then tag his body for beam up.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 08:36am

Aly you little godmoding fuck.

He was beamed on and SHOT ON SIGHT. No time to react, and even if he threw up a spell, there's a goa'ould with a hand device ready to hurl him across the room. Deal with it.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-04-26 09:33am

First thing is first, if you didnt notice, I fastforwarded until after they insert5ed a Goa' Uld Symbiote. That takes a few minutes. And a zat gun does not have an effect that lasts that long.

A mage of 13th level is going to have a base will save bonus of probably +10 as compared to what a a normal person has.. which is 1 or 0. A mages willsave would easily be able to beat a symbiote.

Being telepathic would have given him the ability to autohypnotize himself and ignore that kind of pain. And... the DC for a concentration check to overcome that is going to be 15+damage delt+spell level. he has 16 ranks in the skill and probably a 16 in con.. for a bonus of 19.... he can make it considering the goa'uld doesnt do any HP damage.

Look, had he simply said a combat mage, a standard grunt, and not tried to powergame by specifying a level, thing may have gone differently, but he specified trying to take a high level mage, from my territory, and he even powergamed himself into being able to do it in the first place. This was a one-time thing, because I have such a history of having put up with Laz's powergaming bullshit. In 1/20th of a second, a diviner would have picked him up and a message would have been delivered to every mage on world. Just like any nation that actually has sensors and instant communications equipment. Hell, he discounted FTL sensors completely, and we WOULD have diviners that are capable of picking that up as well.

You cant beat a powergaming little shithead by playing 100% in the rules. But there is no way he would have been able to circumvent what amount to planetary sensors and early warning systems that are designed to detect the very sort of thing he was trying to do, nor should he have been able to use the ring transporters while cloaked. He said that himself that he circumvented that limitation.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-26 09:34am

Lazerus, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of you being able to lock onto expeditious retreat having never seen a mage before and having no clue that they even existed, much less that some would be on the planet. I'm tempted to just have a cruiser randomly wander through right now and have some lieutenant (j.g.) accidentally lean on the "fire broadside" button as its passing your ship. It'd be about as likely as this.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 10:31am

Lazerus, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of you being able to lock onto expeditious retreat having never seen a mage before and having no clue that they even existed, much less that some would be on the planet. I'm tempted to just have a cruiser randomly wander through right now and have some lieutenant (j.g.) accidentally lean on the "fire broadside" button as its passing your ship. It'd be about as likely as this.

Ok, fine. I'll edit my post to say I had a spy tag him for beam up.

First thing is first, if you didnt notice, I fastforwarded until after they insert5ed a Goa' Uld Symbiote. That takes a few minutes. And a zat gun does not have an effect that lasts that long.

A mage of 13th level is going to have a base will save bonus of probably +10 as compared to what a a normal person has.. which is 1 or 0. A mages willsave would easily be able to beat a symbiote.

Being telepathic would have given him the ability to autohypnotize himself and ignore that kind of pain. And... the DC for a concentration check to overcome that is going to be 15+damage delt+spell level. he has 16 ranks in the skill and probably a 16 in con.. for a bonus of 19.... he can make it considering the goa'uld doesnt do any HP damage.

Riiiiiight. Goa'ould can only control NORMAL people. And the cases where we have seen very very strongwilled people, such as SG members controled by a symbote was.............

Look, had he simply said a combat mage, a standard grunt, and not tried to powergame by specifying a level, thing may have gone differently, but he specified trying to take a high level mage, from my territory, and he even powergamed himself into being able to do it in the first place. This was a one-time thing, because I have such a history of having put up with Laz's powergaming bullshit. In 1/20th of a second, a diviner would have picked him up and a message would have been delivered to every mage on world. Just like any nation that actually has sensors and instant communications equipment. Hell, he discounted FTL sensors completely, and we WOULD have diviners that are capable of picking that up as well.

Right, so the FTL sensors and deviner say "A ship arrived in the system". Not "A goa'ould cargoship arrived in the system."

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-04-26 10:37am

Riiiiiight. Goa'ould can only control NORMAL people. And the cases where we have seen very very strongwilled people, such as SG members controled by a symbote was.............

Are the level 13 mages? No. At best, they are level 5 fighters with high wisdom scores.

Right, so the FTL sensors and deviner say "A ship arrived in the system". Not "A goa'ould cargoship arrived in the system."

More like "An unauthorized ship has arrived in-system go on high alert"

Ok, fine. I'll edit my post to say I had a spy tag him for beam up.

And how did he get through customs and on to a military base?

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 10:39am

Are the level 13 mages? No. At best, they are level 5 fighters with high wisdom scores.

Riiiiiiiight. Sure they are.

More like "An unauthorized ship has arrived in-system go on high alert"

Of course, why do you think we got the hell out of there so fast?

And how did he get through customs and on to a military base?

This is outside the base, and he was on the planet before the Arcane Empire arrived.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-04-26 10:43am

This is outside the base, and he was on the planet before the Arcane Empire arrived.

And yet you are new to the region... riiiiight.

Of course, why do you think we got the hell out of there so fast?

Oh, dont worry.... I am conveniently ignoring your blatant powergaming.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 10:46am

And yet you are new to the region... riiiiight.

20/30 year new, with the goa'ould, that's long enough for a spy network.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-04-26 10:51am

lazerus wrote:
And yet you are new to the region... riiiiight.
20/30 year new, with the goa'ould, that's long enough for a spy network.

Goa'Uld have a tendancy to stand out you know... they dont make good spies. Nor do they inspire enough loyalty in the people they control for them to be very good spies.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 10:54am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
lazerus wrote:
And yet you are new to the region... riiiiight.
20/30 year new, with the goa'ould, that's long enough for a spy network.
Goa'Uld have a tendancy to stand out you know... they dont make good spies. Nor do they inspire enough loyalty in the people they control for them to be very good spies.

Uh..........do you even watch SG-1?

When you infect someone with a symbote, they can go for YEARS undetected. Loyalty is a non-issue.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-04-26 11:46am

At least that last statement is true. A smart

Alyrium Denryle wrote:You cant beat a powergaming little shithead by playing 100% in the rules. But there is no way he would have been able to circumvent what amount to planetary sensors and early warning systems that are designed to detect the very sort of thing he was trying to do, nor should he have been able to use the ring transporters while cloaked. He said that himself that he circumvented that limitation.

This is Cov territory, I would say that the sensor network in the region is still being constructed, a single ship could certainly find a gap in the detection grid, exploit it, and well, bam. It's not like he's traveling through your territory, this is a week or two after the conquest of the system. You can't just throw together a high end sensor net over the course of 10 days, its unreasonable.

Rogue 9 wrote:I'm tempted to just have a cruiser randomly wander through right now and have some lieutenant (j.g.) accidentally lean on the "fire broadside" button as its passing your ship.

I would say that your presence would be detected, but not long enough to be fired upon before moving.

On the issue of "finding the mage", it’s very simple; scan the surface for structures that "stand out", an arcane barracks would fit the bill, focus a high resolution camera on that point, wait for someone. Wala, you have yourself a perfectly reasonable way to find a mage.

Alyrium Denryle wrote:First thing is first, if you didnt notice, I fastforwarded until after they insert5ed a Goa' Uld Symbiote. That takes a few minutes.

I'm almost positive it doesn't take minutes, seconds. It's at the neck, seconds later it’s on the spinal cord, and I’d give the total time of no more than 30 seconds.

Alyrium Denryle wrote:A mage of 13th level is going to have a base will save bonus of probably +10 as compared to what a a normal person has.. which is 1 or 0. A mages willsave would easily be able to beat a symbiote.

Being telepathic would have given him the ability to autohypnotize himself and ignore that kind of pain. And... the DC for a concentration check to overcome that is going to be 15+damage delt+spell level. he has 16 ranks in the skill and probably a 16 in con.. for a bonus of 19.... he can make it considering the goa'uld doesnt do any HP damage.

I'm going to say that being out cold reduces your chances of getting a save, being unconscious generally means unable to do, well, anything.
Now I know your mage is very badass, but this isn't normal combat, per se. He's on the floor, and a little snake has just attached itself to his spinal cord. That sort of thing comes with a lot of baggage. I don’t think the mage would even know what is going on, he didn’t see the snake crawl on his neck; it is doubtful he has had the time to consider what’s happened or who has captured him, which certainly reduces his chances of coming out “on top”.

I'd also point out that being unconscious he can't hypnotize himself; furthermore any saves he would get are greatly lowered, if any. But I don't know, does he have an amulet of automatic pain relief or something?

Just to present my opinion on this whole dirty subject. Laz, you could have done that in a less "lame" way, but it’s not unreasonable to capture an insignificant person, but that’s the thing you can only do once, now everyone is on their guard for similar “lame” tactics.

Alyrium, give a little here, he's not snatching up an Arch Mage from the homeworld. Laz could have restrained the wizard and kept a few dozen ysalamiri laying around, either way your going to loose a single soldier. You can either make a big deal about it or just say that neither won a contest of wills and move on.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 11:46am

So, to review.

This guy has been shot unconcious by a powefull weapon, beaten to a bloody pulp by a spy with a club, shot full of mind-control chemicals, and had a very powerfull symbote implanted in his brain. And your telling me his will dosn't break?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-26 11:50am

I would say that your presence would be detected, but not long enough to be fired upon before moving.

Wait, this is Covenant territory? Problem solved; about a one third of my Fifth Fleet is there.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 11:55am

Wait, this is Covenant territory? Problem solved; about a one third of my Fifth Fleet is there.

The cov homeworld, all Aly's show there.

I'd also point out that being unconscious he can't hypnotize himself; furthermore any saves he would get are greatly lowered, if any. But I don't know, does he have an amulet of automatic pain relief or something?

Just to present my opinion on this whole dirty subject. Laz, you could have done that in a less "lame" way, but it’s not unreasonable to capture an insignificant person, but that’s the thing you can only do once, now everyone is on their guard for similar “lame” tactics.

Alyrium, give a little here, he's not snatching up an Arch Mage from the homeworld. Laz could have restrained the wizard and kept a few dozen ysalamiri laying around, either way your going to loose a single soldier. You can either make a big deal about it or just say that neither won a contest of wills and move on.

Exactly, I steal one mid-level officer, and can't ever repeat that trick, what's to loose?

It's not like he would know critical details of everything in your empire, the only reason I want him is that after you soundly kicked ass in the last battle, you've been classified as a "threat" and they want some basic intel on what you can do.

Also, to a race that pretends to be mages, REAL mages showing up would set off red alert bells.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-26 11:58am

The cov homeworld, all Aly's show there.

Erm... Have you been paying attention at all? I have troops on the ground and warships in orbit. The capital world is the only one I got around to before the Covenant surrendered, so that's about the only world I have a hand in occupying.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 12:00pm

Erm... Have you been paying attention at all? I have troops on the ground and warships in orbit. The capital world is the only one I got around to before the Covenant surrendered, so that's about the only world I have a hand in occupying.

Oh, whoops.

I don't think it really matters, that just means that the holes in the sensor net will be smaller and last for a shorter time. But as long as I move fast, you probally won't get too good a look at me, and i'll most likely escape.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-26 12:08pm

Okay. For the record, I have an assault fleet in orbit at the Covenant capital. My naval forces in system consist of a fleet carrier, two battleships, two cruisers, one medium carrier, a missile cruiser, five destroyers, six frigates, four light carriers, 3 missile destroyers, and 2 minelayers. I'm going to recall some forces once I'm sure the Covenant's military has been completely pacified, but as has been abundantly pointed out, the Covenant fell a week ago at max. Everything I sent is still in system and troop transports are still arriving for the occupation. Anyone trying to get in system will have a hell of a time at it. Period.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 12:11pm

Right, anyone attempting to assult the system would be up shit creek without a paddle. But a black-ops team (trained for this kind of thing), in a very small stealth craft, that would be in the system for 30seconds MAX would have a good shot at it.