STGOD 4 OOC Thread

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-04-26 05:04pm

lazerus wrote:3) True, but if the bribed/blackmailed mage went and shouted to his boss, I would be involved in a war I most likely can't win. And if the "feeding frenzy" we saw on the covenant happens again, It woudl be IMPOSSIBLE to win.

That would be the risk of attempting espionage.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 05:07pm

Stormbringer wrote:
1) Knowing patrool routes and shift times is not too hard when you have had a week or so to do it.

No, it wouldn't. But knowing enough to find a mage incapable of resisting is.

2) Goa'ould have a tendancy to "assimilate" the planets of their prediscessors. Sides' it's easy for me to set up a basic spy-network fast.
Please, explain a little why it is you've got super-spies super quick yet can't pursue more coventional avenues?

3) True, but if the bribed/blackmailed mage went and shouted to his boss, I would be involved in a war I most likely can't win. And if the "feeding frenzy" we saw on the covenant happens again, It woudl be IMPOSSIBLE to win.
And a kidnapping is a better idea?

1) Most mages can't resist, it's simply a matter of choosing someone who seems normal.

2) I can, but that's not with the goa'ould style. Sides, high level mages are unbribeable, simply because what can you bribe an immortal supernatural creature with?

3) Yes, see above.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 05:07pm

SirNitram wrote:
lazerus wrote:3) True, but if the bribed/blackmailed mage went and shouted to his boss, I would be involved in a war I most likely can't win. And if the "feeding frenzy" we saw on the covenant happens again, It woudl be IMPOSSIBLE to win.
That would be the risk of attempting espionage.

A risk I can't take, thus I use alternate methods.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-04-26 05:11pm

1) Most mages can't resist, it's simply a matter of choosing someone who seems normal.

So you're saying the only method you had of selecting him was that he seemed normal?

2) I can, but that's not with the goa'ould style. Sides, high level mages are unbribeable, simply because what can you bribe an immortal supernatural creature with?

Egh, there are always things. Money, power, etc. There are always ways to accomplish it.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 05:15pm

Stormbringer wrote:
1) Most mages can't resist, it's simply a matter of choosing someone who seems normal.
So you're saying the only method you had of selecting him was that he seemed normal?

2) I can, but that's not with the goa'ould style. Sides, high level mages are unbribeable, simply because what can you bribe an immortal supernatural creature with?
Egh, there are always things. Money, power, etc. There are always ways to accomplish it.

1) No, but that criteria rules our halfdragons, psions, or anyone else that could resist the zat.

2) Yes there are ways, but I don't know what ones to use if I don't know what a high leve mage can do. And I don't know what I high level mage can do until I get one of my side.

Ergo, I need to do this to get the cycle started, but It's all conventional spying from here on out.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-26 05:23pm

Laz, you forget that my forces have seen almost this exact pattern before.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 05:24pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Laz, you forget that my forces have seen almost this exact pattern before.

The situation is the same as before, except then you have 30ish minutes to bombard me out. Now you have 20ish SECONDS.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-04-26 05:27pm

PLEASE, this debate gets us nowhere. I think everyone should just accept the compromise and get on with life. Laz, if you keep insisting that you need more out of this operation, things will just get ugly. Alyrium, if you keep insisting on the infallability of mages you will piss everyone off. Everyone else, if you keep on debating what relevance +10 dice rolls have in the dynamics of an STGOD, I will send you letter bombs. This is not a big deal, people!

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 05:29pm

Bugsby wrote:PLEASE, this debate gets us nowhere. I think everyone should just accept the compromise and get on with life. Laz, if you keep insisting that you need more out of this operation, things will just get ugly. Alyrium, if you keep insisting on the infallability of mages you will piss everyone off. Everyone else, if you keep on debating what relevance +10 dice rolls have in the dynamics of an STGOD, I will send you letter bombs. This is not a big deal, people!

Exactly.

What you proposed works, with the exception that I think the symbote should survive. Because "we discent him, he's a human like us" ISN'T HELPFULL. I'm not asking for much, just a very very little.

but yeah, lets drop it.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-26 05:29pm

Bugsby wrote:PLEASE, this debate gets us nowhere. I think everyone should just accept the compromise and get on with life. Laz, if you keep insisting that you need more out of this operation, things will just get ugly. Alyrium, if you keep insisting on the infallability of mages you will piss everyone off. Everyone else, if you keep on debating what relevance +10 dice rolls have in the dynamics of an STGOD, I will send you letter bombs. This is not a big deal, people!

My big deal is that people keep ignoring my navy like it ain't even there. Verlion Station with the minefield, Pinnacle with the landing craft (although at least I got to override that bit of blatant powergaming), and now this. How many times will it take before everyone realizes that my forces have seen energy spikes from apparently empty space enough times to start shooting?

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 05:31pm

That's why I did a very very fast random course change after exiting. Lets drop it.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-04-26 05:35pm

you make a legit point, but I think the speed of this operation speaks for itself. Your fleet is a presence, and we dont want to overlook you, but it is possible to get away from it. Even with so many ships, planets are pretty big and your fleet cannot cover the entire orbit (all 360 degrees of both axes) at all times. In 30 seconds, Laz could have gotten in and out. Let us tack onto teh compromise as stated that you get a long-range missile shot off at the ship, but it is merely a picket ship that damages the shields but inflicts no real damage. Your fleet is a presence, but he is not jumping into the middle of a battle group, neh?

And Laz, fine, you can keep the symbiote but dont powergame it. You learn a bit about mage dynamics but if you try to say you can clone a race of magic users out of that, or you can use what you learned to develop complete resistance to magic, that is BS. You get some knowledge, but nothing that is really practically usable.

All ok wit dis?

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 05:36pm

Bugsby wrote:you make a legit point, but I think the speed of this operation speaks for itself. Your fleet is a presence, and we dont want to overlook you, but it is possible to get away from it. Even with so many ships, planets are pretty big and your fleet cannot cover the entire orbit (all 360 degrees of both axes) at all times. In 30 seconds, Laz could have gotten in and out. Let us tack onto teh compromise as stated that you get a long-range missile shot off at the ship, but it is merely a picket ship that damages the shields but inflicts no real damage. Your fleet is a presence, but he is not jumping into the middle of a battle group, neh?

And Laz, fine, you can keep the symbiote but dont powergame it. You learn a bit about mage dynamics but if you try to say you can clone a race of magic users out of that, or you can use what you learned to develop complete resistance to magic, that is BS. You get some knowledge, but nothing that is really practically usable.

All ok wit dis?

Sure. Would stuff like "Mages cast so many spells per day" or "Wizards learn from scrolls" be ok?

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-04-26 05:39pm

lazerus wrote:
Bugsby wrote:you make a legit point, but I think the speed of this operation speaks for itself. Your fleet is a presence, and we dont want to overlook you, but it is possible to get away from it. Even with so many ships, planets are pretty big and your fleet cannot cover the entire orbit (all 360 degrees of both axes) at all times. In 30 seconds, Laz could have gotten in and out. Let us tack onto teh compromise as stated that you get a long-range missile shot off at the ship, but it is merely a picket ship that damages the shields but inflicts no real damage. Your fleet is a presence, but he is not jumping into the middle of a battle group, neh?

And Laz, fine, you can keep the symbiote but dont powergame it. You learn a bit about mage dynamics but if you try to say you can clone a race of magic users out of that, or you can use what you learned to develop complete resistance to magic, that is BS. You get some knowledge, but nothing that is really practically usable.

All ok wit dis?
Sure. Would stuff like "Mages cast so many spells per day" or "Wizards learn from scrolls" be ok?

I dont see why not.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 05:41pm

Ok, that's all I really wanted.

If Aly approves, i'm ok with this solution.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-04-26 05:47pm

I have one final request to make, and I am sure many people would agree with me. There is a lot of OOC stuff in the game thread, could you go back and take it out? When the first two paragraphs of a game thread post are "you stupid powergamin fuck, I rape you

," it makes the whole thing look bad. Swear at each other all you like on this thread, but lets keep in game all story.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-04-26 05:49pm

Can we put a stop to the uber cloaking? Anyone with a fleet around their world is going to notice the energy spikes that come with teleporting someone or going into hyperdrive.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 06:04pm

frigidmagi wrote:Can we put a stop to the uber cloaking? Anyone with a fleet around their world is going to notice the energy spikes that come with teleporting someone or going into hyperdrive.

Uh.......read the thread. He DID detect that. It's just that as long as I cloak quickly, and leave even quicker, he can't really act on that info.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-26 06:43pm

That's what you said last time to. How fast does that shuttle move? You have to realize that when you're in a planet's orbit the planet itself is going to limit the directions you can go when you leave rather severely. You were looking at a battleship going at it with all available batteries. That's a lot of explosives and steel flying around, which you naturally wouldn't want to fly through, limiting your choices even more. And we're talking miles-wide EMP bursts. And unless you can miraculously activate a hyperdrive inside a gravity well (something beyond even Star Wars tech) then you're still in the area when the shooting starts.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-04-26 06:44pm

I call powergaming.

And I did read the damn thread, you ignored a whole damn fleet and kidnapped a pretty high level mage, without any problems what so ever?

Bullshit.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-04-26 06:46pm

Darksider wrote:This whole discussion has me seriously worried.

Alyrium, if we ever get into a ground war, are you going to pull shit like

::::::My uber 1337 mage of doom shrugs off your puny weaponz fire and casts 10,000 uber spells of 1337 death that wipes out your whole army MUA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ::::::::::?

I would never do that, I have quantified the abilities of my grunts. But he took someone who amounts to an officer out of my territory when i have 1/7th of my fleet in system. YHe did so with complete immunity.

I will note that Laz has powergamed in every D&D game we have played in, we have had to kill off and remake him what qwas it... 4-5 times in one campaign...

Uh.......read the thread. He DID detect that. It's just that as long as I cloak quickly, and leave even quicker, he can't really act on that info.

You realize that we have astropath that detect cloaked ships right? Hell that is B5 tech level.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-04-26 06:49pm

I dont care WHAT level the mage is, no one at this tech level should be able to shred armor like that. Sure, you dont agree with Laz's tactics. But can you at least concede one freakin point?

Here is the problem. He is basically stealing every state secret I have with that post. Goa'Uld have a genetic memory IIRC and if he takes over a high level mages mind and then mass produces Goa'Uld mages.. he unbalances the game massivly in his favor.

I have NO TECHNOLOGY MARE ADVANCED THAN GUNPOWDER. He is basically taking the one edge I have, and then augmenting it with his own tech level.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 06:51pm

Rogue 9 wrote:That's what you said last time to. How fast does that shuttle move? You have to realize that when you're in a planet's orbit the planet itself is going to limit the directions you can go when you leave rather severely. You were looking at a battleship going at it with all available batteries. That's a lot of explosives and steel flying around, which you naturally wouldn't want to fly through, limiting your choices even more. And we're talking miles-wide EMP bursts. And unless you can miraculously activate a hyperdrive inside a gravity well (something beyond even Star Wars tech) then you're still in the area when the shooting starts.

Look, Starwars tech, and SG tech DO NOT WORK THE SAME WAY.

SG tech hyperdrives do not have any peroblem working inside a hyperdrive well.

Last time you were shooting at ships that you had time to root out, this time you don't have that time.

As for how fast my ships move, they can get way out of range of those missles in 10 seconds. Not to avoid the entire effect, but to get far enough away that their grounding would stop it.

That's assuming of course, that naquada tech would even be effected by EMP.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 06:52pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
I dont care WHAT level the mage is, no one at this tech level should be able to shred armor like that. Sure, you dont agree with Laz's tactics. But can you at least concede one freakin point?
Here is the problem. He is basically stealing every state secret I have with that post. Goa'Uld have a genetic memory IIRC and if he takes over a high level mages mind and then mass produces Goa'Uld mages.. he unbalances the game massivly in his favor.

I have NO TECHNOLOGY MARE ADVANCED THAN GUNPOWDER. He is basically taking the one edge I have, and then augmenting it with his own tech level.

STFU and read the aggreement I just made, the mage's resisting distroys most of his memory, I get only a few scraps.

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-04-26 06:53pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Darksider wrote:This whole discussion has me seriously worried.

Alyrium, if we ever get into a ground war, are you going to pull shit like

::::::My uber 1337 mage of doom shrugs off your puny weaponz fire and casts 10,000 uber spells of 1337 death that wipes out your whole army MUA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ::::::::::?
I would never do that, I have quantified the abilities of my grunts. But he took someone who amounts to an officer out of my territory when i have 1/7th of my fleet in system. YHe did so with complete immunity.

I will note that Laz has powergamed in every D&D game we have played in, we have had to kill off and remake him what qwas it... 4-5 times in one campaign...

Uh.......read the thread. He DID detect that. It's just that as long as I cloak quickly, and leave even quicker, he can't really act on that info.
You realize that we have astropath that detect cloaked ships right? Hell that is B5 tech level.

Oh yeah, sensors that can detect cloaks instantly ISN'T powergaming. I see now.