BoredShirtless wrote:
False analogy. Steve Irwin would NOT approach crocodiles if they had the speed, hearing and aggressivness of an aggressive dog.
So easily do you go to the fallacies. He does manage to wrestle crocs to the ground by himself, although they are not huge ones. Point is if people control their fear and have an idea of what they are doing it is possible to defend yourself even with most agressive dogs.
I love the way you've backpedalled from "dogs" to "most dogs".
You can call it backpeddaling all you want even though I didnt say ALL dogs to begin with, but I think it is possible to fight off most dogs.
Imperium² wrote:You can take a look at what Steve Irwin does with crocodiles. Of course, when the croc is really big and heavy there are multiple people. If you had a person who is physically fit, had a pretty good idea how to fight and was the same size (weight) against most dogs, I think it would be an easy win for a human.
Steve Irwin isn't being ambushed & attacked by crocs, he's the one who's confronting the crocs under conditions that are more or less controlled by him. Also, crocodiles & dogs are quite different, the croc's a reptile with limited speed and many more "safe areas" compared to a dog, not only that but it's also limited in where it can chomp you. A dog can jump on you and rip your throat out before you can even blink, crocs can't do that.
A dog is faster, stronger, and has more natural weapons than a human. Going up against one is a damn good way to get a Darwin award.
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
The only way an ordinary, unarmed human can beat a dog is to have it bite his or her arm. Sound suicidal? Just make sure you're past the teeth. With your arm at the back of the mouth like a bit and the dog locked on, you can clobber it on the head until its jaw breaks.
Not the only way. Imperium's not being particularly smart about this, but it can be done. People have fought off lions before. You have to have good timing, but if you can kick the dog in the face as its charging you've basically won. Break its snout all to hell if you do it right. But if you miss you're screwed.
Robert, of course grabbing a weapon would be the best way to go up against a dog. I would probably get a club or something and start swinging. Letting it bite the shit out of me in order to kill it would be the last resort.
A dog is faster, stronger, and has more natural weapons than a human. Going up against one is a damn good way to get a Darwin award.
I am going to disagree about dogs being stronger. They have a stronger bite, but I promise you that their legs are not even close to my upper and lower body strength.
Darth_Zod wrote:
i'll ask again. Have you personally ever gone up against a 100+ pound dog?
Would 80+lbs be OK for you? It was a greyhound, pitbull mix. I got stitches from the claws and it puntured the area between my thumb and index finger when it bit me. It locked its jaws but considering it had nothing to really lock onto but flesh it didnt have a hold of me. I wrestled the fucker to the ground and yes I was hurting with the scratches, bite wound and damn grass itching the hell out of me but I whooped its fucking ass.
In the end, I was maced with pepper spray by my ex because it was a troubled dog she was training. Oh how I remember.
BoredShirtless wrote:
False analogy. Steve Irwin would NOT approach crocodiles if they had the speed, hearing and aggressivness of an aggressive dog.
So easily do you go to the fallacies.
I can't help it; when I see one, I want you to know about it.
He does manage to wrestle crocs to the ground by himself, although they are not huge ones. Point is if people control their fear and have an idea of what they are doing it is possible to defend yourself even with most agressive dogs.
And once again, you can't use Irwin as an analogy as crocodiles are built so that you can bushwhack them. You can't bushwhack a dog.
I love the way you've backpedalled from "dogs" to "most dogs".
You can call it backpeddaling all you want even though I didnt say ALL dogs to begin with, but I think it is possible to fight off most dogs.
You said something like "open a can of woop ass on a 80-100 pound dog". That to me is pretty much saying all dogs.
BoredShirtless wrote:
False analogy. Steve Irwin would NOT approach crocodiles if they had the speed, hearing and aggressivness of an aggressive dog.
So easily do you go to the fallacies. He does manage to wrestle crocs to the ground by himself, although they are not huge ones. Point is if people control their fear and have an idea of what they are doing it is possible to defend yourself even with most agressive dogs.
while a crocodiles jaws have extremely powerful closing force, their muscles to open the jaw is relatively weak. Clamp down their jaws and they can't do a whole lot as far as biting goes.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
BoredShirtless wrote:
And once again, you can't use Irwin as an analogy as crocodiles are built so that you can bushwhack them. You can't bushwhack a dog.
It served only to show that with some strength, speed, skill, and no fear it is possible to confront and contain an animal.
You said something like "open a can of woop ass on a 80-100 pound dog". That to me is pretty much saying all dogs.
Superman wrote:I am going to disagree about dogs being stronger. They have a stronger bite, but I promise you that their legs are not even close to my upper and lower body strength.
True, but then again there's no 240 pound dogs that I know of, and as someone who works out regularly you're on the upper end of the scale in strength.
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
Stitches from the claws. Liar. Look at a dog's claws some time. They're blunt as hell; I doubt they could even puncture you! Particularly from a greyhound!
BoredShirtless wrote:
And once again, you can't use Irwin as an analogy as crocodiles are built so that you can bushwhack them. You can't bushwhack a dog.
It served only to show that with some strength, speed, skill, and no fear it is possible to confront and contain an animal.
and how many people are going to have all of this necessary to take on a fairly big animal again? the amount that can compared to the amount that can't is likely quite skewed. You seem to forget that most smart humans have a sense of fear for something that can do serious damage to them.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
BoredShirtless wrote:
And once again, you can't use Irwin as an analogy as crocodiles are built so that you can bushwhack them. You can't bushwhack a dog.
It served only to show that with some strength, speed, skill, and no fear it is possible to confront and contain an animal.
Can you say "false analogy" and "apples & oranges"? That's like saying that just because I can drive a dinky 3hp go-kart I can drive an F1 car. I don't think so.
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
BoredShirtless wrote:
And once again, you can't use Irwin as an analogy as crocodiles are built so that you can bushwhack them. You can't bushwhack a dog.
It served only to show that with some strength, speed, skill, and no fear it is possible to confront and contain an animal.
But Irwin has fear, so I'll tick that off. Now, unless you start quantifying the required speed strength and skill to deal with dogs and crocodiles, saying "well if he can contain a crocodile, then he can contain a dog too!" is really silly.
You said something like "open a can of woop ass on a 80-100 pound dog". That to me is pretty much saying all dogs.
Hmm...Equivocation or Amipholy fallacy?
What's an Amipholy fallacy? No, it isn't an Equivocation fallacy. It's just an unclear premise, which leads to a pretty silly blanket conclusion.
Let's make this more interesting. How about another primate, say, an angry Lowland Gorilla going up against a dog. Eh, that wouldn't be much of a fight.
I read somewhere that if you could take a mature adult male gorilla and get him to max on a bench press, he could do more than 2,000 pounds!
BoredShirtless wrote:
What's an Amipholy fallacy? No, it isn't an Equivocation fallacy. It's just an unclear premise, which leads to a pretty silly blanket conclusion.
aerius wrote:
Can you say "false analogy" and "apples & oranges"? That's like saying that just because I can drive a dinky 3hp go-kart I can drive an F1 car. I don't think so.
Depends on what you mean by "drive." Doesn't it? I disagree that it is a false analogy. I am not saying that because Irwin can wrestle a croc that therefore it is definate that people can wrestle dogs. I am merely showing that people can, and have taken on animals.
aerius wrote:
Can you say "false analogy" and "apples & oranges"? That's like saying that just because I can drive a dinky 3hp go-kart I can drive an F1 car. I don't think so.
Depends on what you mean by "drive." Doesn't it? I disagree that it is a false analogy.
Go ahead and disagree till you're blue in the face. It's still false.
I am not saying that because Irwin can wrestle a croc that therefore it is definate that people can wrestle dogs. I am merely showing that people can, and have taken on animals.
Now you're distorting your own premise. Were we not talking about taking on dogs? And did you not use Irwin as an analogy? BTW, it's a pretty well established fact that people can take on animals. I wouldn't try distoring the argument in that direction if I where you, because we'd all agree.
I'm with Raptor here. I've got a green belt in Kenpo karate; if a dog attacked me, I'd use my feet on it. Might get bunged up a little, but since I'm wearing shoes (or at least hopefully would be), I'd have protection.
Kick it away, and if it gets inside my range before I can kick, use my knees on it while keeping its head away from me. Grab the head if possible, knee it hard till it's dazed, and then either toss it away as far as I can or toss it to the ground and come down on it with my knees (aiming for ribcage or neck).
If it by some weird means managed to knock me down, I'd shove my arm into its jaw, then twist my other arm around its head and lock my legs around its body, then pull its jaw off (if i can) and break its neck; if I can't pull its jaws away, I'd squeeze with my legs and cover its nose till it was out of breath, then try my damnedest to kill the bloody thing!
Really, fighting dogs is mostly just in keeping its jaws away from your soft spots-- inner thighs, groin, stomach, and neck. And use your own body only as a last resort-- use a weapon whenever possible, even if it's just a cardboard box or something. thump it over the head, yell, make little half-charges... generally be the alpha male in the situation. Unless the dog's either stupid or rabid (the animal equivalents of "drunk, dumb, and deranged"), it should back off.
El, see this is where I think you would have the most difficulty. Years ago, I earned my black belt in Tae Kwon Do so I am not stranger to kicking. Against something like a dog, however, I think it would be really hard to execute a solid kick, especially when it's charging. It's going to try to get in on you to bite.
Superman wrote:El, see this is where I think you would have the most difficulty. Years ago, I earned my black belt in Tae Kwon Do so I am not stranger to kicking. Against something like a dog, however, I think it would be really hard to execute a solid kick, especially when it's charging. It's going to try to get in on you to bite.
You don't have to go for an axe kick or anything fancy. Just kick it like a soccer ball.
