[Imperium²] Man VS Beast

[Superman]

Oh by the way, I'm sure you've seen videos of police dogs attacking people. They're fast. Kicking something like that would be extremely difficult.

[aerius]

Can you say "false analogy" and "apples & oranges"? That's like saying that just because I can drive a dinky 3hp go-kart I can drive an F1 car. I don't think so.

Depends on what you mean by "drive." Doesn't it? I disagree that it is a false analogy. I am not saying that because Irwin can wrestle a croc that therefore it is definate that people can wrestle dogs. I am merely showing that people can, and have taken on animals.

You know exactly what I mean by "drive" you cockmonkey. You wanna play semantics games all day go right on ahead, I don't have time for that shit and I ain't a big fan of it. Let's cut the bullshit. Sure people can take on animals, problem is most of the time they lose. You might be the 1 in 10, 1 in 5, 1 in 3, or whatever that gets lucky and wins, but let's put it this way, in the end it comes down to luck of the draw more than anything else.

[BoredShirtless]

Oh by the way, I'm sure you've seen videos of police dogs attacking people. They're fast. Kicking something like that would be extremely difficult.

Yeah you're right. Kicking a male German Shep will probably just piss it off even more. Then there's the risk of leaving an opening to your crotch, should your kick miss.

[Thirdfain]

I dunno- What if you have, say, a hefty stick? Or a pair of heavy boots on? I think either tool would give you an advantage. I'm around 180 pounds and in fairly athletic shape, I would take my chances against a hundred-pound dog if I have a pair of heavy boots or a hefty stick... One good kick to the face, and that dog is going down.

[General Zod]

I dunno- What if you have, say, a hefty stick? Or a pair of heavy boots on? I think either tool would give you an advantage. I'm around 180 pounds and in fairly athletic shape, I would take my chances against a hundred-pound dog if I have a pair of heavy boots or a hefty stick... One good kick to the face, and that dog is going down.

If by hefty stick you mean luisville slugger, you might have a good chance, as that gives you a major advantage against the dog. heavy boots, maybe depending on the size of the dog.

[Thirdfain]

Hell, all you need to do is keep the thing at distance. A solid 2-3 foot stick would let you strike it without exposing your arm to it's jaws.

[The Third Man]

A solid 2-3 foot stick would let you strike it without exposing your arm to it's jaws.

Right, but there's still conditioning and psychological aspects. Someone who's spent all his life living in say Kensington would do a lot worse than say, a farmer who's spent all his life whacking animals of various shapes and sizes with sticks.

Mind you, my own record versus animals is not so impressive. I've wrestled a goat lighter than myself to a draw, punched an overly agressive sheep (weight similar to mine) with such a punch that would have laid a man out (right between its stupid sheep eyes, which was foolish - they have a very thick stupid sheep skull and I did great damage to my fingers; the sheep merely blinked a bit) and been utterly and comprehensively filled in by a real featherweight in the shape of an enraged 15 pound goose.

[Rogue 9]

Heh. My track record against geese isn't that great, mainly because I want to avoid killing them; hard to do and use any kind of force at the same time due to their hollow bones.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Serioulsy, it seems to me that there are a lot of people who are afraid of animals and would rather run that fight off a dog or some other wild animal. Granted, some animals are too big (tigers, lions, buffalo etc) but wouldn't you have to agree that a 150 lbs man (fairly fit) could open a can of whoop ass on a 80-100 pound dog? Do people inherently believe they are weaker? Do they not want to get hurt? What I say!?

Have you ever seen a Rottweiler go through Schitzen (sp?) training??

You'd have to be fucking bonkers to try to take it on. Sure, the dog may only weigh half as much as you do, buy it has claws, fangs, incredibly strong jaws, faster reflexes and fewer exposed vital areas. You'd have to be very lucky to take on a dog, one-on-one, that really wants to hurt you.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

What I could see happening to myself against a dog would be something like this: As I tried to grab it, the dog takes hold of my forearm and tears the skin causing me to bleed. While it's doing that, I drop my body weight onto its head (hopefully it's concrete). That would be the end of the dog but I would probably have to get stitches.

No, the dog would wriggle out from under you pretty quick. I think you really haven't seen how fast attack dogs can move.

A friend of mine runs a dog training service--including Schitzen (sp? I've only heard it pronounced) attack training--and I've seen these dogs bowl over muscular men big as you seem to be while simply having fun. If the dog got its teeth in you, your arm would be useless as it would rend tendons and snap its head from side-to-side to destroy your joints and tear your connective tissues.

And forget about dropping on it. If you lose your footing, you're as good as mauled, as a really vicious dog will go for the face.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

A dog isn't hard to deal with if you have a slight amount of time to prepare. Just wrap your arm in two layers of cloth, and offer it to the dog. When he bites down on it you'll have him exactly where and how you want him- in range and motionless. From there you use something solid and reasonably long to crush his skull... I recommend a plumber's wrench if you have one, though a hammer or baseball bat would do in a pinch. Make sure you go for the kill when you hit him, the last thing you want to do is piss him off more and give him another opportunity to kill you.

If you have nothing at hand, and no time to prepare, then your best bet is to climb a tree or something high that the dog wont be able to jump to. Remember dogs can't climb trees.

If your weaponless and have nothing to climb your very unlucky, but not completely hopeless. First wrap whatever top your wearing around your neck (if you have time, and assuming its thick enough to actually make a difference), this will prevent him from ripping your throat out if he gets ahold of your neck. When the dog charges try to kick him and knock him out or get him to run away. If he continues to close try to shove your arm down his throat when he lunges- its dangerous (what isn't about this senario?)but if you succeed he won't be able to bite down. If he locks down on any part of your body, go for his eyes- he'll either back off or become crippled (if he loses his eyes you'll have a much easier time running away if you manage to break his hold on you). Your real goal in this situation is to simply survive until help arrives, however if you know no one is coming I suggest that you keep hitting the dog as hard as you can, whenever you can with the goals of blinding him, breaking his jaw and/or legs, and/or killing him (the last will be very difficult to accomplish for most people if they're unarmed). Most men, if they act intelligently, should be able to cripple the dog enough to make an escape. Most women will likely have a much more difficult time due to their lighter body weight (which could be approximately equal to that of the dog, and have a higher proportion of fat!)

[Bob the Gunslinger]

If we're talking about an unarmed, yet athletic, human being versus a big dog that really wants to hurt said human being, the dog is usually going to win.

For example, remember the Diane Whipple case. She was an athlete, and she was killed. (There were 2 dogs, but IIR only one of them did the majority of the work in the attack.)
The main reason we don't hear about more such killings is that most dogs are well-socialized or respectful of humans and are not going for the kill.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

I need to correct myself, the best way to prepare for a dog is to grap a gun and load it. Don't be stupid, use your brains to select the best tool for the job if its available.

[aerius]

I dunno- What if you have, say, a hefty stick? Or a pair of heavy boots on? I think either tool would give you an advantage. I'm around 180 pounds and in fairly athletic shape, I would take my chances against a hundred-pound dog if I have a pair of heavy boots or a hefty stick... One good kick to the face, and that dog is going down.

Call me a coward, but I ain't taking my chances against a dog with anything short of 9mm handgun. Dogs move too fast for me to think about going up against one with anything else.

[Rogue 9]

Bah. Give me my sword. [size=0]And full battle armor, of course.[/size]

[Pablo Sanchez]

Call me a coward, but I ain't taking my chances against a dog with anything short of 9mm handgun. Dogs move too fast for me to think about going up against one with anything else.

Me, I'd want a machinegun. Dogs scare the shit out of me.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Heh. My track record against geese isn't that great, mainly because I want to avoid killing them; hard to do and use any kind of force at the same time due to their hollow bones.

I don't know. I was once surrounded by a flock of big geese (3 feet tall at the head) and being gentle didn't work. I started really kicking them in the body area (wings mostly), and they just completely ignored it. It was only when I went for their stupid geese heads that they got the point and left.

Geese are mean, tough bastards.

[Spyder]

Serioulsy, it seems to me that there are a lot of people who are afraid of animals and would rather run that fight off a dog or some other wild animal. Granted, some animals are too big (tigers, lions, buffalo etc) but wouldn't you have to agree that a 150 lbs man (fairly fit) could open a can of whoop ass on a 80-100 pound dog? Do people inherently believe they are weaker? Do they not want to get hurt? What I say!?

Ah, you must be one of Transcend's cats. Nice to meet you.

You've never actually fought a big dog have you? Rotti's in particular have a tendancy to pull people to the ground and go for the throat, as do a lot of other breeds.

[Sporkzen]

I've been attacked by 2 dogs in my life. In once instance i *luckily* happened to kick it in its throat and it died soon after. (was in golf shoes) was quite messy and disturbing. was a chow/pitbull mix

The other instance i had a baseball bat and only had to hit it once and i knocked it out. It lived but had to be put down for aggressiveness. that was a rottweiler.


Personally i would NEVER go up against a dog unless i had no choice. And then its just a case of trying to kill it or it will kill you.

[2000AD]

Dog bites can be pretty nasty, working in a vets for a few years gave me respect for that. With smaller animals like cats (and to an extent the smaller dogs) the main danger will come from infection if the bite is deep and isn't cleaned out. With large dogs serious damage can be caused*, so if the dogs being nasty it goes straight in the crush kennel and will be pumped up with sedatives before we even get it out to anaestatise (sp) it.

* For example, when my dad got bitten in the arm by a German Sheperd it just missed the main blood vessel. Doctors said he was lucky as it could have cost him his arm.

[Meest]

I think people are overplaying and underplaying dogs in this instance. Dogs are one trick ponies, they have strong heads and neck with a crushing bite. Their fangs and teeth aren't the greatest but still tear you, that being said, only way a dog can beat you is biting you, that's where you can win. The best advantage any human has over and quadraped is lateral movement, we can strafe better than most four legged animals being biped. When animals charge they have alot of momentum, just play with your friends dog and let them charge then spin and move around, watch them twist and overrun their play target.

Also most wild animals can't afford to get hurt, them hurt = they dead, while we are a bit more flexible, that's why most animals back down once hurt. Best thing is to just smother them especially after a failed charge, you can choke out a dog pretty easily, and smaller less muscled face/necked dogs like Dobermans you might get away with direct pounding. I've played and wrestled with friends Rotties and Pitbulls and once you smother them and headlock them they really can't bite you, that's assuming you can get them into that position.

[Imperium²]

Can you say "false analogy" and "apples & oranges"? That's like saying that just because I can drive a dinky 3hp go-kart I can drive an F1 car. I don't think so.

Depends on what you mean by "drive." Doesn't it? I disagree that it is a false analogy. I am not saying that because Irwin can wrestle a croc that therefore it is definate that people can wrestle dogs. I am merely showing that people can, and have taken on animals.

You know exactly what I mean by "drive" you cockmonkey. You wanna play semantics games all day go right on ahead, I don't have time for that shit and I ain't a big fan of it. Let's cut the bullshit. Sure people can take on animals, problem is most of the time they lose. You might be the 1 in 10, 1 in 5, 1 in 3, or whatever that gets lucky and wins, but let's put it this way, in the end it comes down to luck of the draw more than anything else.

*snicker*, no it really depends on what you mean by "drive." You pointed that crocs vs dogs is a "false analogy" because you are taking the extreme differences in the two objects. If I can drive a go cart, it is safe to say that I could drive a formula one to some extent. My analogy was a simple one..people keeping a level head and taking on an animal with some success. That's all.

[aerius]

*snicker*, no it really depends on what you mean by "drive."

Whatever you say Clinton, Mr. "I did not have sex with that woman" when the bitch was sucking his cock like a Hoover. Lemme put it to you this way, the average person, and even those who are well below average can hop in a go-kart and drive it around a track without crashing it. They might have a couple bumps with the tire barriers but that's about it. The average person would not even be able to get an F1 car out of pit road without stalling it out 5 times and/or spinning it out into the barriers, nevermind driving it on the track at any kind of speed. Even highly skilled car magazine test drivers stall them or spin them out on a regular basis.

You pointed that crocs vs dogs is a "false analogy" because you are taking the extreme differences in the two objects. If I can drive a go cart, it is safe to say that I could drive a formula one to some extent. My analogy was a simple one..people keeping a level head and taking on an animal with some success. That's all.

"They can take it on with some success", glad you finally admitted that, and good job of backpedaling you assgoblin. Here, let me help you out.

Granted, some animals are too big (tigers, lions, buffalo etc) but wouldn't you have to agree that a 150 lbs man (fairly fit) could open a can of whoop ass on a 80-100 pound dog?

f you kept a level head and were fairly fit, I bet you could kick practically any dogs ass.

I think people are just pussies and are afraid of getting hurt. I am not saying that you wouldnt get bit or scratched but for christs sake people!

So you go from saying a human can kick any dog's ass to admitting that human will have some success. Got anything else you'd like to add?

[Imperium²]

Christ you people are so fucking obtuse. Get unbent for Christ's sake. Here's a clue Einstein, this is not a formal debate and I am offering an opinion about people's ability to fight off a dog. I think it can be done more often that people are willing to let themselves believe. I think people can kick a dogs ass and generally be successful in most situations. They are hardly contradictory nor are they "back peddaling" as some imply. Christ, saying someone is committing a fallacy when none exists and making hyperactive claims that ones opponent is losing should be a fallacy in of itself. I suggest at least a class in formal logic or critical reasoning and lay off the one web page wonder bullshit.

[aerius]

Christ you people are so fucking obtuse. Get unbent for Christ's sake. Here's a clue Einstein, this is not a formal debate

No fucking shit, tell me something I don't know. If this was a formal debate you would've been called a lot worse than an "assgoblin", "cockmonkey", or idiot by now, in fact you'd likely be recommended for a Village Idiot title by now.

I am offering an opinion about people's ability to fight off a dog. I think it can be done more often that people are willing to let themselves believe. I think people can kick a dogs ass and generally be successful in most situations. They are hardly contradictory nor are they "back peddaling" as some imply.

So once again, what do you call it when you go from saying "if you kept a level head and were fairly fit, I bet you could kick practically any dogs ass" to "people keeping a level head and taking on an animal with some success".

Christ, saying someone is committing a fallacy when none exists and making hyperactive claims that ones opponent is losing should be a fallacy in of itself. I suggest at least a class in formal logic or critical reasoning and lay off the one web page wonder bullshit.

Uh huh, so in your little dream world crocodiles are the same as dogs and go-karts are the same as F1 cars. You're either making a false analogy or your living in fucking la-la land, take your pick you fucking whack-a-loon.