Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
You don't believe in anything, or you don't have faith in anything? The latter is objectivism, the former is sophistry.Stark wrote:*grin* I guess not all atheists are alike; I don't believe in anything at all. There are things I know, and things I don't know. That is all.Plekhanov wrote:I prefer to see atheism more as a positive belief in the world than a negative lack of belief in something beyond it. I don't like the way religious types try to define it as a failure to believe.
I don't 'believe' in anything. I'm no sophist; I *know* the universe exists. Nothing requiring belief is valid.Rogue 9 wrote:You don't believe in anything, or you don't have faith in anything? The latter is objectivism, the former is sophistry.Stark wrote:*grin* I guess not all atheists are alike; I don't believe in anything at all. There are things I know, and things I don't know. That is all.Plekhanov wrote:I prefer to see atheism more as a positive belief in the world than a negative lack of belief in something beyond it. I don't like the way religious types try to define it as a failure to believe.
Not to mention that countless other people share that frame of reference. I think the odds of this universe 'existing' are pretty high.Stark wrote:Knowledge is superior to belief; if I know something, belief is not required, because it IS.Rogue 9 wrote:You're confusing belief and faith. If you know the universe exists, then you believe that it exists, no?
Now you've got ME arguing semantics!!!
Trust me man, you believe things, belief is just mental acceptance of something, if you don't believe in anything you haven't mentally accepted anything.Stark wrote:Knowledge is superior to belief; if I know something, belief is not required, because it IS.Rogue 9 wrote:You're confusing belief and faith. If you know the universe exists, then you believe that it exists, no?
Now you've got ME arguing semantics!!!
Exactly, since the recent "what the world thinks about God" surveys were done and it turned out the UK was one of the most secular nations, it makes sense for them to cover these (atheistic / agnostic) views like humanism since they make a sizable portion of the public's views/beliefs.Plekhanov wrote:When I did RE we skimmed over Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism and spent quite a while on Christianity in its many forms, one of the motivations behind this selection seemed to be that we’d acquire a basic understanding significant belief systems in the UK. I think it makes sense to add agnosticism and atheism to this list to help clear up common misunderstandings about them regardless of whether they are defined as religions or not as believers in most religions so often utterly fail to understand agnosticism and atheism.
Yep. I got an A in it at GCSE too.Dark Hellion wrote:Wait a second, you crazy brits have religion class in High School? Am I getting this right?
Atheism is not a religion, obviously, but there are lots of deeply held beliefs that are atheistic that have, till now, (when it turns out there's a lot of atheistic people in the uk)been ignored in favour of theistic ones, the possible exception being buddhism.Darth_Zod wrote:how exactly do you consider atheism a religion in any sense whatsoever? it's specifically defined as a lack of belief. How does a lack of belief translate into a belief of something, which is what most religions are defined by?
not to nitpick, but dictionary.com does disagree with you.Plekhanov wrote:I prefer to see atheism more as a positive belief in the world than a negative lack of belief in something beyond it. I don't like the way religious types try to define it as a failure to believe.Stark wrote:I always figured RE was a method of tacitly forcing kids to have *some* kind of belief. They talked about all religion, except atheism. I was indeed decried for not believing in anything.
Dictionary.Com wrote:a·the·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-zm)
n.
Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
Godlessness; immorality.
The established definition of atheism is entirely negative, loaded with words with negative connotations such as “disbelief”, “denial” and to cap it all “immorality”. I refuse to accept such a definition, atheism to me is a positive choice it means embracing this world and this life, I believe in the proven and falsifiable not the unproven and unfalsifiable.Darth_Zod wrote:not to nitpick, but dictionary.com does disagree with you.
Dictionary.Com wrote:a·the·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-zm)
n.
Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
Godlessness; immorality.
it's defined. it's there. deal with it. not liking how something is defined does not make the definition invalid.Plekhanov wrote: The established definition of atheism is entirely negative, loaded with words with negative connotations such as “disbelief”, “denial” and to cap it all “immorality”. I refuse to accept such a definition, atheism to me is a positive choice it means embracing this world and this life, I believe in the proven and falsifiable not the unproven and unfalsifiable.
now you're just playing semantics.I consider those who believe in God/s to be the ones in denial; they are denying this world and this life for the next, they are denying the inevitability and finality of their eventual death. In contrast I accept this world with all its imperfections, I accept my life (which isn’t all that hard really as a healthy middle class brit I’ve had things very easy) and I accept my eventual death but hope that I can have children so my genes can live on.
The fact that someone who is religious may have made the definition does not make something invalid. Try again.I think we need a new positive definition of atheism not drawn up by the religious and a new definition for religion such as:
The hatred of life, denial of the world, refusal to face death.
Its needs some work I know but it’s a start.
that's only one of the definitions given. that does not invalidate the others listed.Plekhanov wrote:The definition uses the word "immorality" to describe atheism I'd say that it invalidates itself.Darth_Zod wrote:[it's defined. it's there. deal with it. not liking how something is defined does not make the definition invalid.
No, that part is invalid as it has nothing to do with being godless. Chances are it was some slang term from the past. Much like pagan or infidel.Plekhanov wrote:The definition uses the word "immorality" to describe atheism I'd say that it invalidates itself.Darth_Zod wrote:[it's defined. it's there. deal with it. not liking how something is defined does not make the definition invalid.
Using a shitty source makes the definition invalid. Your source does not even bother to distinguish between archaic and modern definitions of the word. From a much better source, ie- Merriam-Webster:Darth_Zod wrote:it's defined. it's there. deal with it. not liking how something is defined does not make the definition invalid.
Who the hell even heard of the "American Heritage Dictionary" before they had the good fortune to nab the domain name "dictionary.com"?One entry found for atheism.
Main Entry: athe·ism
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
1 archaic : UNGODLINESS, WICKEDNESS
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity
How about the fact that you quoted a shitty dictionary which does not distinguish between archaic and modern definitions and which is only recognized because of the fact that they nabbed the domain name "dictionary.com" before anybody else could? It's the "American Heritage Dictionary"; hardly as authoritative as Merriam-Webster.The fact that someone who is religious may have made the definition does not make something invalid. Try again.
