Ranma 1/2 vs. DragonBall Z

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-10-20 03:36am

They dont even have to target Ranma in the Tournameent where Trunks and Goten weere fighting 18 they threw a city killing blast that missed her however everything around the point of impact for it was vaporized and it easily had a blast radius of a mile

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-20 01:58pm

1. I have already disallowed killing the planet, because at best that would result in a draw, since Z fighters can't breathe in space either
2. If Ranma truly cared about Akane, he would have unsealed the techniques. End of Discussion.
3. The energy from their attacks, regardless of how tightly it is contained has to go somewhere after being released. Since unprotected humans survived within a couple of miles of the Cell games, this establishes a limit on the energy that could have been thrown around. The Death Star's superlaser is very contained and controlled until it hits its target too.
4. They can hear people speaking during fights, this sets the upper limit of their speed at 700 mph. We never hear sonic booms resulting from their movement and attacks in combat. This upholds the 700 mph upper limit.
5. You still have not explained how the Instant Transmission is of any use in an atmospheric environment when such speeds are supposedly possible.
By your calculations, Goku could have zipped over, grabbed Roshi's Glasses, and been back in much less time than it took him to teleport.
6. Z fighters still forget they can fly regularly, and sometimes with no excuse at all.
7. Ranma can dodge that pathetically easily, It's called Happosai's Interdimensional Warp, a technique which puts you out of phase with conventional reality.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-20 02:59pm

consequences wrote:Oh, and Dbz is not the Culture. Dbz will never be the Culture. The Culture has awesome , overpowering technology, backed up by the most incredible strategists in all of sci-fi. Dbz has awesome, overwhelming power, backed up by some of the lousiest minds in the history of anime. Give Darkstar access to Culture level technology with the Minds and A.I. doing only what they are told, taking all directtion from him, and you have an equivalent to Dbz.

There respective intellegence had absolutly nothing to do with the comparision. Both handle the opsition with overwhelming speed and firepower... Thats the only reason The Culture is above the rest.... and mainly there speed. I can name a few races that could put up a descent fight if there ships were not fighting in the picoseconds.

Also you have to come up with another reason for Ranma being able to unseal the techinques becuase I have a news flash..... He does love Akane. As if the series isn't enought evidence... its been stated by RT herself. (drawn actaully)

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-20 03:26pm

why do I have to come up with another reason? She survived, ergo she wasn't in enough danger for it to be necessary to unseal them.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-20 03:41pm

consequences wrote:why do I have to come up with another reason? She survived, ergo she wasn't in enough danger for it to be necessary to unseal them.

I've never seen the end but I was under the impression that he was very pissed at saffion and already though she was dead or near dead. Saying that he wasn't in love with her becuase of that..and using that as a reason he didn't unseal the techniques is flawed becuase its been statred otherwise.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-20 06:09pm

Time to end this.
Z fighters are in character, meaning they go into dramatic speech and powerup.
Ranma splashes them with instant Jusenkyo powder, makes it permanent with the Chisuiton, and tears them apart.
Z fighters don't do any of this in picoseconds, since normal humans have had time to react and be awed by the power up sequence in the past.
Z fighters don't dodge, because they never dodge an unknown attack without trying to match strength with whatever is thrown at them, and in fact, sit there with there mouth open waiting for things like Ginyu's transference to fuck them.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-20 06:23pm

*Snip BS

One word
Trunks, This is Future Trunks here, He killed the Andriods in less than ten seconds, He fucked with Freeza abit sure but generaly Future Trucks is ruthless and fast, he won't want for matching his strength, constantly Future Trucks has shown to be increably to the point, and remeber he does not power-up unless he has to

Also remeber they are facing each other one at a time Consquence you forget that?

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-20 06:35pm

Point, Future Trunks is the only Z fighter I can truly respect, and the only one who displays the proper attitude while fighting. I probably should have specifically disallowed him from the start.
Solution: Ranma uses Umisenken, cloaks himself, changes gender, feigns innocence, and uses the Koi fishing rod or love pills to nail Trunks, and coopt him to join Ranma's side.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-20 06:45pm

Solution: Ranma uses Umisenken, cloaks himself, changes gender, feigns innocence, and uses the Koi fishing rod or love pills to nail Trunks, and coopt him to join Ranma's side.

And Trucks is doing what during all of this?

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-10-20 10:23pm

consequences wrote:Time to end this.

I quite agree

consequences wrote:Z fighters are in character, meaning they go into dramatic speech and powerup.

Like Goku against Jeice and Burtur, and Nappa as well, and Cell? The Androids against Vegeta?

consequences wrote:Ranma splashes them with instant Jusenkyo powder, makes it permanent with the Chisuiton, and tears them apart.

I beleive this is assuming that Ranma isn't encumbered by being in character. Very well, Ranma attacks with enough power to devistate a planet then.
Planet Busting <= Lv. 1 Freiza's Death Ball < Lv. 4 Cyborg Freiza's death Ball < SSJ Trunks lifting his hand casually < a serious punch by SSJ Trunks < a serious punch by Android 17 < a serious punch by Android 16 < the amount of force needeed for an unpowered Semi-perfect Cell to FEEL it.
Ranma punches Gohan as he's going into SSJ2 mode. Gohan doesn't feel a thing.

consequences wrote:Z fighters don't do any of this in picoseconds, since normal humans have had time to react and be awed by the power up sequence in the past.

The humans are awed when it's time for the Dramatic Speach, which is going to be delivered. In this case, they'll go off while Ranma is hammering futiling against their skin.

BTW, their invulnerability is caused by their Chi surrounding them, NOT by any iron hard skin. Otherwise, when they get hit by a Massive Energy Blast, their clothes would get singed off in an instant. You know what that means? Pressure point attacks won't work since they have to get through that aura of Chi. Sorry, not enough strength.

consequences wrote:Z fighters don't dodge, because they never dodge an unknown attack without trying to match strength with whatever is thrown at them, and in fact, sit there with there mouth open waiting for things like Ginyu's transference to fuck them.

Yeah, right. You HAVE watched DBZ, right? It's filled with blinking, blurring, sliding, and dodging. Goku fighting Nappa, Jeice, Burtur, Freiza, Android 19, Cell, Buu etc. was jumping all over the place. Just because the opponent is using a diffrent fighting style or some strange energy attack never bothered any of them before!

. . . .

Why am I saying this? Vegeta senses their power, realizes that he doesn't NEED to power up, and proceedes to turn the battlefield andeverything for 500 kilometers around it into a sea of molten glass.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-20 10:33pm

Or Trunks Yogi, Future Trunks would do it if dear old dad won't

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2002-10-21 01:31am

THis is ridiculous...
Ranma did not cared for Akane ?? Only someone who did not really understand the series would say such thing...
Ranma is not invencible and he is not even the best fighter of his series. Tarou, Saffran, Genma, Cologne and Happosai are all of them better or in same level. Not to say Ryouga, someone that Ranma have problems to beat because his superior resistense and strength (something which DBZ characters have in much more level).
Ranma is not that agile. Only female Ranma was agile enough to dodge for example, Ryouga when Cologne teached him or Moose.
In character, Ranma would be splashed by water, making him a girl and even less powerful. In Character, all Ranma's character make descriptions and comments about all special techiniques.
And even if you do not want DBZ to kill a planet, that does not matter...
They are able to do so, to resist those who do so and if they just blow Nerima, something Ranma cannt dodge, its over.
It is really a BS someone wanting to compare a fighter with fists that can blew planets with one that can blew rocks. Makes no sense at all...

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-21 02:08am

consequences wrote:why do I have to come up with another reason? She survived, ergo she wasn't in enough danger for it to be necessary to unseal them.

Ah that explains why he kept trying to get to the tap in mid-battle with Saffron, and invented a new variant of the Hiryu Shoten Ha which had the same effect on Saffron as if he'd used one of Genma's forbidden techniques.

And she WAS in extreme danger, the Jusenkyo guide said as much.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-21 01:04pm

First off, my personal view of the matter is that Akane is a heinous hell-bitch who only desrves to die. This tends to shade my view of any events involving her.
Second, Ranma is not agile? Ryouga is on the same level? Ranma dodged Ryouga's attacks several times in his sleep, and has kicked the crap out of him on at least 4 occasions, as compared to 1 head to head fight that Ryouga won. Ranma is more durable than Ryouga, during the Shishi Hokoudan fight in the anime, Ranmka took 2 perfect shishi hokoudans, continued fighting, and took part of a third perfect chi blast that also severely screwed up Ryouga, Ranma came out without serious damage.
If DBZ resorts to killing the planet, then they are only proving my underlying point, that they are morons that a competent opponent could dispose of, since they would have just killed themselves as well.
If their chi is their invulnerability, Ranma uses the Happo 5 yen stsu to drain it off of them, until they are vulnerable.
Still waiting on some sort of decent rebuttal of the 700mph combat speed limit.
Ranma did not announce the Katchu Tenchin Amaguriken when beating Ryouga after the Breaking point training. Ranma did not announce the Hiryu Shoten Ha he used to stop Ryouga during the Moxibustion Incident. Ranma did not announce the Mouko Takabishas he fired off after his first encounter with the Shishi Houkadan.
P.S. you know, hopeless stands against impossible odds can be kind of fun, you all should try it more often

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-10-21 03:31pm

Re: Ki draining.
Remember when the Android was draining Vegeta's Ki? Remember what Vegeta did to that Android?

Re: Planet Killing
Not so much as killing the planet, as sterilizing the continent. Or simply creating a few new volcanoes. Or how about this, killing Ranma with a Ki blast. See, let's say the power to destroy the planet is called X. The Z fighers can throw a blast from strength 0 to strength X. Let's say the weakest blast that can kill Ranma in one hit has a strength of Y. Does Y lie between 0 and X? If so, Ranma dies.

Re: 700 MPH
First, there was the Dragonball Manga, when people were dissapearing att the way beack in 21'st boduki. The manga was from panels, so time did not matter. They could have been moving at a zillion times the speed of light, but the fight could still easilt have been down using the various panels (such as how they show The Flash moving at super speed.)

Then came the Anime, and in that things had to be shown in real time. Otherwise, every fight in which the contestants were stronger than 21st Boduki Kuririn and Jackie Chung would have happened the same way (dissapear then reappear). That would make for VERY boring fight scenes, so things were lengthened, and filler added (which is not strictly cannon)

Therefore, the times on the Anime are that way because they HAVE to be that way. If you insist that they are the actual speeds, then I will reply that the Manga is higher cannon then the Anime, proving your point moot.

And if you INSIST that we use ONLY the Anime, then I will remind you that the Anime includes the movies. Say hello to Brolli.

And if you INSIST on using ONLY the TV Anime, then I will say that during the Piccolo vs. Radditz fight, Radditz was stated as going light speed.

And if you INSIST on using ONLY the JAPANESE TV Anime, then I will reply that Kaiou Sama could track Saiya-jin space pods moving at many times the speed of light, however he could not track Goku and Freiza when they were fighting. Therefore, Goku > Saiya-jin space pod > Light speed.

And if you INSIST on using ONLY the JAPANESE TV Anime with NO filler then . . . what do you know, the above was in the Manga as well!!

Happy now?

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-21 05:46pm

consequences wrote:First off, my personal view of the matter is that Akane is a heinous hell-bitch who only desrves to die. This tends to shade my view of any events involving her.

However that is your opinion. I don't think she's the right one.. however Ranma apperantly thinks otherwise.

Second, Ranma is not agile? Ryouga is on the same level? Ranma dodged Ryouga's attacks several times in his sleep, and has kicked the crap out of him on at least 4 occasions, as compared to 1 head to head fight that Ryouga won. Ranma is more durable than Ryouga, during the Shishi Hokoudan fight in the anime, Ranmka took 2 perfect shishi hokoudans, continued fighting, and took part of a third perfect chi blast that also severely screwed up Ryouga, Ranma came out without serious damage.
If DBZ resorts to killing the planet, then they are only proving my underlying point, that they are morons that a competent opponent could dispose of, since they would have just killed themselves as well.

Provided you assume that DBZ fighters can't fire chi-blasts at any setting other than planet-killer. They don't NEED to frag the planet to take out Ranma and the entire nerima crew. On the other hand Ranma is going to need planet-busting to kill them (Cell's survived at least one planet killer, maybe two but I can't remember whether or not he took the hit from Vegeta's final flash).

If their chi is their invulnerability, Ranma uses the Happo 5 yen stsu to drain it off of them, until they are vulnerable.

Yep chi draining worked real well for 19 and 20 didn't it? Besides just because Ranma knows the Happo 5 Yen Satsu doesn't mean he's capable of using it.

Still waiting on some sort of decent rebuttal of the 700mph combat speed limit.

Except DBZ characters move faster than the human eye can track, and there are plenty of times in battle (notable examples include Goku's fights with Freiza and Cell) where even at a distance the only thing we can see are the shockwaves their creating in their fight.

There's also the matter of how Brolly was able to destroy a Galaxy in a matter of seconds at the start of movie 8.

Ranma did not announce the Katchu Tenchin Amaguriken when beating Ryouga after the Breaking point training. Ranma did not announce the Hiryu Shoten Ha he used to stop Ryouga during the Moxibustion Incident. Ranma did not announce the Mouko Takabishas he fired off after his first encounter with the Shishi Houkadan.

Yet he does later. And DBZ characters have used their techniques before without announcing them as well (not to mention casually thrown around ki blasts that make the perfect shi-shi hokodan look like a firecracker).

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-21 07:07pm

Cell's survived at least one planet killer, maybe two but I can't remember whether or not he took the hit from Vegeta's final flash).

He took it, it burned his arm off and he regenerated it

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-10-21 08:07pm

SylasGaunt wrote:(Cell's survived at least one planet killer, maybe two but I can't remember whether or not he took the hit from Vegeta's final flash).

Final Flash?
Frieza's Death Ball he threw at Trunks was planet-busting class, and Trunks blocked it with one arm.

Anything that can hurt Future Trunks when you first meet him is planet busting. That includes ALL of Vegeta's punches, kicks, and energy blasts.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-21 10:54pm

And yet Goku's skin can be pierced by a needle, He really freaks about this, you would think he would be subconsciously using his chi to stop it if he is as powerful as you think, but he doesn't.
The human eye can not effectively track things moving as slowly as 100 mph at close range, this does not mean that something is traveling faster than light.
In any case, given the disparities in power level between the time when Piccolo destroys the Moon, and the times when the Z fighters are throwing blasts around casually that should obliterate the planet, I'm going to make the claim that the moon was actually packed with C-4, much in the same way as Borg Cubes and Planets are, just too see how much fire I draw.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-10-21 11:09pm

Goku doesn't like needles, but most of the time she he is faced with them, he is beaten to a pulp (eg. couldn't even move). He's not going to put up a fight for long. Besides, like most of the Anime martial artists he can power down himself.

You're right, faster than the eye can see does not mean light speed. Hence, why I never used that argument and instead used OTHER arguments. Faster than Kaiou-sama's eye IS light speed.

Piccolo distroying the moon? What the hell are you smoking!?
MASTER ROSHI destroyed the moon. Let me repeat, MASTER ROSHI can NUKE the moon and still KEEP ON FIGHTING IN THE MIDDLE OF A TOURNAMENT!! This is the same Master Roshi who didn't even go out to fight Radditz. SSJ2 Gohan is MUCH stronger than Radditz.

As I said, power is not dissapared normally because of dramatic effect. There is no reason to belive that the fighers are drastically holding back in their efforts to kill each other.

However, I propose we take a break from this battle, and debate.

Ranma vs. Superman

The reason, by applying the same logic you used in Ranma vs. Z-senshi, then Superman would get his ass kicked by Ranma.

So answer me these questions four.

1) What would happen if Ranma fought Superman, and why?

2) Why would the moon be filled with C4?

3) Would the moon also be closer to Earth, since you still haven't countered the picosecond speed blitz tactic.

4) Would the planets also be filled with C4 as well?

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-21 11:13pm

consequences wrote:And yet Goku's skin can be pierced by a needle, He really freaks about this, you would think he would be subconsciously using his chi to stop it if he is as powerful as you think, but he doesn't.
The human eye can not effectively track things moving as slowly as 100 mph at close range, this does not mean that something is traveling faster than light.

The one that was in a med-bay on a ship run by a being far more powerful than Goku at the time you mean?

And it isn't JUST at close range that the human eye can't track these people. There are several long shots where the fighters are still moving too quick to see, and there are also times when they move too quickly for saiyajin eyes to follow as well.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-21 11:21pm

Of course the point is also fairly well moot since the fights Ranma characters have are easily observable by your average human.

DBZ fights are not.

There's also the little matter of DBZ characters doing more damage with a power up than some of the bigger battles in R 1/2.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2002-10-21 11:44pm

First off, my personal view of the matter is that Akane is a heinous hell-bitch who only desrves to die.

Like some pointed out, Your personal view does not matter to determine what Ranma would do.

This tends to shade my view of any events involving her.
Second, Ranma is not agile? Ryouga is on the same level? Ranma dodged Ryouga's attacks several times in his sleep, and has kicked the crap out of him on at least 4 occasions, as compared to 1 head to head fight that Ryouga won.

Ranma-male is much less agile and fast than Ranma-girl, which is weaker. This is clear. Cologne tell him that when teaching him. When facing Ryouga for the first time (other than the memories one, when Ryouga arrives) Ranma did not won. The fight ended in a draw and plus Ryouga could hit Ranma with his umbrella, hand, kicks, but when Ranma turned in female and could avoid Ryouga.
Ryouga is not easily defeated by Ranma ever and he develops pretty closely with him, yes.

Ranmka took 2 perfect shishi hokoudans, continued fighting, and took part of a third perfect chi blast that also severely screwed up Ryouga, Ranma came out without serious damage.

Ryouga is stronger than Ranma and have more stamina. Ranma is more agile and invetive. This is pretty much clear since the first fight when Ranma fights to keep the distance of Ryouga, to avoid his blows. When ryouga ties ranma's arm in the fight, that is the reason.

[/quote]If DBZ resorts to killing the planet, then they are only proving my underlying point, that they are morons that a competent opponent could dispose of, since they would have just killed themselves as well.

This only proves you do not want to think
For once, the power to destroy a planet shows that they are able to hit much more harder than all Ranma's cast. And because they hit each other, they are able to resist to much more harder hits.
If they can go with a power like this they can use minor versions and destroy just Nerima - or this is not obvious ? - which would kill Ranma and not the planet and they would be still alive. This is pretty much obvious.

For most is venerable to defend Ranma 1/2 from DBlarghZ, you go to such non-sense. Soon you will be like the dude that wanted to prove the incridible power of Ukyou spatulas in the old Mailing List i am member of...

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-22 01:41am

Ryouga was not defeated by Ranma ever? The fight before the Rhythmic Gymnastics tournament, that ended with ranma jumping up and down on ryouga's tied up screaming body. During the Akan memory erasure, when Ranma was TRYING to get his ass kicked, which ended with Ryouga unconscious. Just after the Breaking Point Training, when Ryouga is clearly knocked out before they fall off the cliff. To remove the Mark of the Battling God, which Requires the wearer to be defeated for it to disappear.
Do I really need to go on? Or should I just strap you to a chair and force you to watch the entire series in uncut japanese with no translation?

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2002-10-22 01:53am

No, will much easier if you could paste anywhere in my message that I have said Ranma never defeated Ryouga.

Of course, you cannt. Because I never said such thing. Would you watch the entire series and please read the entire messages in this board and use some inteligence to answer what people actually say, which is basically simple: The DBZ fighters are much more powerful than Ranma's ?

Or you just repeat over and over the same argument without going to the single point is one-sided fight when one of the fighters can blew over the island where you live ??????

Go prove me that someone with a bow and arrows can defeat the USA's army...