[Imperium²] Man VS Beast

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Uts did correct himself, actually.

[Elheru Aran]

Actually, I believe he was talking about shotguns loaded with pellets, not slugs. He was addressing stopping power, not its load... a slug would most definitely be more powerful than shot (although it depends upon the type of shot-- buckshot would be much harder-hitting than birdshot, for example). That's what I was saying, really.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Well, none of that was really the point of his post, to be honest.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I'm not an expert on weapons, but I do know there are two main forms of shotgun pellets. Birdshot and Buckshot. Wouldn't buckshot stop a dog fairly well? I mean, considering that it's supposed to be able to down full grown deer, I think it should be able to pierce a couple vital areas on a rabid dog.

-Damien

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I'm not an expert on weapons, but I do know there are two main forms of shotgun pellets. Birdshot and Buckshot. Wouldn't buckshot stop a dog fairly well? I mean, considering that it's supposed to be able to down full grown deer, I think it should be able to pierce a couple vital areas on a rabid dog.

-Damien

That good?

[Rogue 9]

Red X.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Red X.

You always see red Xes...

[Mayabird]

Red X.

I see them just fine. Rogue, are you using IE?

[Striderteen]

I wouldn't bet on anything but a shotgun; dogs are surprisingly resistant to small-caliber gunfire.

depends what kind of ammo (FMJ or JHP). Even 9mm JHP lacks "knockdown" power, but I really can't see a dog taking more than two .45 ACP Hydroshock rounds (at most) to bring down...

Like druggies, berserkers and most vicious wild animals, a dog in "attack mode" is well-nigh invulnerable to pain/shock. You need a solid shot to the central nervous system to put it down, and it's very hard to make an accurate shot against something that small moving that fast.

[Striderteen]

.45 from a revolver? It's not unheard, but less than common. I'd guess .38

Since I'm in a nitpicky mood, I'd comment that it depends on the era. The most common revolver caliber today is the .357 Magnum / .38 Special, but the most common revolver caliber in the "Wild West" was the .45 Long Colt.

[Striderteen]

Uts-- perhaps Striderteen was thinking a shotgun loaded with slug rounds? When you fire those, you're basically shooting a low-powered elephant gun-- a 12-gauge is about equivalent to .65 caliber! Those would louse up any dog's day, let alone an attack dog... of course, the trick is to shoot it before it gets too close to you...

A standard buckshot load should be perfectly sufficient; at close quarters, nothing short of high explosives exceeds the killing power of a shotgun.

[Rogue 9]

Yeah. It was TK's Imperium.

[Darth Wong]

Yeah. It was TK's Imperium.

Good.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Yeah. It was TK's Imperium.

Good.

Rip him to shreds! I want him Gibbed!!

[Rogue 9]

I can't; don't have an account there and I'm not going to get one. I just keep an eye on the forum so I can get a heads up if they come after one of the forums I moderate. But don't worry; the other trolls apparently hate him and rip him to shreds on a daily basis anyway.

[Lord Pounder]

I can't; don't have an account there and I'm not going to get one. I just keep an eye on the forum so I can get a heads up if they come after one of the forums I moderate. But don't worry; the other trolls apparently hate him and rip him to shreds on a daily basis anyway.

If you don't have an account there you miss the best bits. All you see is the shop front. I can see the shit and real filth beneath the surface, but thats enough about Miss Manners hygine habbits.

lp

[Rogue 9]

I can't; don't have an account there and I'm not going to get one. I just keep an eye on the forum so I can get a heads up if they come after one of the forums I moderate. But don't worry; the other trolls apparently hate him and rip him to shreds on a daily basis anyway.

If you don't have an account there you miss the best bits. All you see is the shop front. I can see the shit and real filth beneath the surface, but thats enough about Miss Manners hygine habbits.

lp

I don't care. The only reason I go on there is to uncover any connections to current or possible future trolls on the boards I moderate. I get that from The Godforsaken Hellholes forum. I don't need to see the porn forum and whatever else they've got.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I can't; don't have an account there and I'm not going to get one. I just keep an eye on the forum so I can get a heads up if they come after one of the forums I moderate. But don't worry; the other trolls apparently hate him and rip him to shreds on a daily basis anyway.

If you don't have an account there you miss the best bits. All you see is the shop front. I can see the shit and real filth beneath the surface, but thats enough about Miss Manners hygine habbits.

lp

I don't care. The only reason I go on there is to uncover any connections to current or possible future trolls on the boards I moderate. I get that from The Godforsaken Hellholes forum. I don't need to see the porn forum and whatever else they've got.

Same here, except I don't have my own forum. I scout for this one!

[Rogue 9]

Well, if I saw a serious threat to SD.net (as opposed to their usual bitching and braggadocio) I'd raise the alarm of course, but that's not why I'm there.

[Sarevok]

A shotgun would also be easier to aim at a fast moving dog than a revolver. After all shotgun pellets have an area affect.

Do you ever bother reading anything?

No fucking duh it'd be easier to aim, but Striderteen clearly said:

dogs are surprisingly resistant to small-caliber gunfire.

A few moments of deep thought and logistics reveal that shotgun pellets are pretty far on the list of small-caliber projectiles, and clearly have little stopping power, which was the point of that statement.

See what exercising your brain cells can do? Please get a vasectomy.[/quote]

Uts you are overreacting here. Not everyone is gun enthiusiast. I never knew that shotguns are weaker than revolver. It would been better if you explained it a polite way rather than your mindless flaming.

[Rogue 9]

Uts: A shotgun isn't like getting hit with a small caliber gun. Its like getting hit with many small caliber guns. I'd like to see that dog attack someone when its face has been shot clean frickin' off.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Uts made a mistake in his post. That's not what he was actually talking about or addressing, but rather evilcat's continuously annoying habit of repeating what other people say and stating the obvious.

[Striderteen]

Uts: A shotgun isn't like getting hit with a small caliber gun. Its like getting hit with many small caliber guns. I'd like to see that dog attack someone when its face has been shot clean frickin' off.

Exactly. Being hit by a twelve-gauge shell in double-ought buckshot is equivalent to being shredded by a dozen .32 ACP machine pistols.

[wolveraptor]

god damn, the last post was over a year ago. but dog breeds are a subject i'm not totally ignorant on (the same can't be said for physics ).

i just want to say this: there are regular dogs. and then there are mollossers.

such dogs are thought to have descended from the Ancient Tibetan Mastiff, based on Assyrian pictures showing powerful mastiff-dogs with spitz tails. however, a new theory has arisen that the Central Asian Ovtcharka (sp?) is the ancestor of all mollossers.

regardless, they are a force to be reckoned with. their brutal history of combat and hunting has shaped their powerful frames, and undying gameness. aggression, surprisingly, is not a quality that is exceedingly sought after in these dogs (though their modern descendants, who may work as guard dogs, are bred for aggression and protectiveness).
it is gameness that breeders value. i could define gameness for you, but i'd say this link says it best
http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/apbtfaqfaq.html#q7

pit bulls are very different in brain chemistry from other dogs.

"First, the pit bull is quicker to anger than most dogs, probably due to the breed's unusually high level of the neurotransmitter L-tyrosine. Second, pit bulls are frighteningly tenacious; their attacks frequently last for 15 minutes or longer, and nothing—hoses, violent blows or kicks—can easily stop them. That's because of the third behavioral anomaly: the breed's remarkable insensitivity to pain. Most dogs beaten in a fight will submit the next time they see the victor. Not a defeated pit bull, who will tear into his onetime vanquisher. This, too, has to do with brain chemistry. The body releases endorphins as a natural painkiller. Pit bulls seem extra-sensitive to endorphins and may generate higher levels of the chemical than other dogs. Endorphins are also addictive: "The dogs may be junkies, seeking pain so they can get the endorphin buzz they crave," The Economist suggests.

Finally, most dogs warn you before they attack, growling or barking to tell you how angry they are—"so they don't have to fight," ASPCA advisor and animal geneticist Stephen Zawistowski stresses. Not the pit bull, which attacks without warning. Most dogs, too, will bow to signal that they want to frolic. Again, not the pit bull, which may follow an apparently playful bow with a lethal assault."
http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html

the pit bull's ancestral bulldog, while not having the same remarkable gameness that the pit's terrier ancestry guarantees (note, terriers were introduced into the mollossian breeds for the small size, speed, and gameness needed for dog-fighting, not baiting), is still a remarkably tenacious dog, known to succeed in taking down 1000 lbs bulls and fighting 300-600 lbs bears (sometimes declawed). you can see how much this lifestyle affected the morphology of the bulldog here
http://www.bulldoginformation.com/stand ... iting.html

the romans, being fond of gladiatorial fights, often placed their canis molossi in the pits against leopards, lions, tigers, and basically anything they could get their hands on.

more recently, in 1800s, dogue de bordeaux were seen to triumph against leopards, wolves, hyenas, bulls and bears (a female had done all this). a male named hercules even fought to a draw with a jaguar (though the dog died first).
http://www.c-gate.net/bulldog/html/evolution.html

of all mollossers, only pit bulls still retain most of the gameness their ancestors had. most dogs have now been bred for conformation, not performance, something i object to. however, that gameness has been twisted into human aggression by modern, irresponsible breeders. pits needed to be handled in the pit; they needed to be so tolerant of humans, that they would not even bite one in the midst of a fight. it is their latent dog-aggression that one needs to worry about. consequently, pits make poor guard-dogs, often socializing with strangers. do not be fooled by what the media calls a pit bull; any dog above 50 lbs is very likely not a pure pit mix, and was bred by the american maxim, "bigger is better". such a dog would be wasted in the pits of old.

my long-winded point is, these dogs kick ass, but not if you tell 'em to be subservient.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Don't resurrect dead threads, doorknob.