Strategy RPG?

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-04-29 06:39pm

Anyone know a good pen and paper Strategy RPG? Maybe even Operational and anywhere between the two. Preferably Modern and up. Well?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-29 06:43pm

D&D 3.5.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-04-29 06:46pm

At best D&D is Tactical. Do you understand what I mean by Strategic, Operational and Tactical?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-29 07:06pm

Yes. D&D can be strategic. It just usually isn't played that way because most D&Ders think that either tactical or roleplaying is more fun. But I've played in games where I had an outrageous Leadership score and had an army for followers and/or run a nation. It gets strategic pretty quick when the first orc horde comes along and you have to deploy troops accordingly.

(That's when we haul out the mass combat rules, but that's another story.)

As for systems dedicated entirely to strategy rather than tactical combat, I can't help you. Never much went in for that.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-04-29 07:07pm

Why would you want an RPG Strategy game? Unless the role-playing aspect gets played out in a Babylon 5 sort of way (ie the characters are ambassadors to individual nation states, and their interaction with each other comes across like that).

I suppose you could be creative and play a game of RISK with all the players pretending they're representatives for their particular state, and giving ultimatums and back room dealings to each other.

D&D is tactical, but so what? Just increase the scale of combat. Maybe that level 15 fighter ceases becoming a grunt and starts becoming a General.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2004-04-29 07:09pm

Warcraft 3:The Frozen Throne has a nifty bonus orc campaign which is pretty much a mini-RPG in an RTS format.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-29 07:11pm

Yeah, most true strategy games aren't RPGs in any sense of the word. The closest I've ever come is the STGOD.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-04-29 07:12pm

2000AD wrote:Warcraft 3:The Frozen Throne has a nifty bonus orc campaign which is pretty much a mini-RPG in an RTS format.

*twitches* Don't start me on how much of that is just..wrong...

Aaanyway. By RPG I mean...well, sort of how it is described above with respect to Babylon 5. Okay imagine this, STGOD with actual hard rules on nitty gritty of economy/combat, but still with the flavor of RPing and story. Something very Pen and Paper (ie NO pieces)

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-04-29 07:13pm

2000AD wrote:Warcraft 3:The Frozen Throne has a nifty bonus orc campaign which is pretty much a mini-RPG in an RTS format.

Unfortunately that's a PC game. However I hear that WarCraft has made it as a pen-paper RPG, so with a little planning and research there's no reason why you can't play that campaign from the PC and adapt it to the pen-paper rules.

It may need a little work, but everyone needs a good hobby.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2004-04-29 07:15pm

Stofsk wrote:
2000AD wrote:Warcraft 3:The Frozen Throne has a nifty bonus orc campaign which is pretty much a mini-RPG in an RTS format.
Unfortunately that's a PC game.

aaaaaaahhh, my bad. When he said strategy i automatically assumed RTS (as in computer game)

Still doesn't change that IMO the WC3:tFT Orc campaign is quite nifty

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-04-29 07:17pm

Super-Gagme wrote:Aaanyway. By RPG I mean...well, sort of how it is described above with respect to Babylon 5. Okay imagine this, STGOD with actual hard rules on nitty gritty of economy/combat, but still with the flavor of RPing and story. Something very Pen and Paper (ie NO pieces)

I've had the same thought to create a game of my own like that. The problem comes from number crunching all the various facets of empire building and units and fleets etc. Seriously, take the B5 scenario - what you've got is a dozen worlds, each has it's own resources and industry etc. Then you have to add in your fleets. Each fleet needs a warship, fighters, etc. The main problem with playing a game like that is the "spreadsheet plague" that results from it.

You see I would love to play a game where I'm a leader of an interstellar empire with destroyers and fighters and so on... implementing such a game so that it remains clear and consise would be a problem.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-04-29 07:18pm

2000AD wrote:aaaaaaahhh, my bad. When he said strategy i automatically assumed RTS (as in computer game)

What has the world come to? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo....bah, everyone makes this assumption. I wait for the day when Someone says Strategy game, one assumes ACTUAL strategies, not Real-time tactical base builders

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-04-29 07:20pm

Stofsk wrote:You see I would love to play a game where I'm a leader of an interstellar empire with destroyers and fighters and so on... implementing such a game so that it remains clear and consise would be a problem.

Why don't we try to adapt one? Or make one? There must be a way to simulate the detail of Empire management in an abstract way, so to stay away from the "spreadsheet issue" as you say.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-04-29 07:20pm

Stofsk wrote:You see I would love to play a game where I'm a leader of an interstellar empire with destroyers and fighters and so on... implementing such a game so that it remains clear and consise would be a problem.

STGOD!

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-04-29 07:22pm

join the STGOD, man. It's just getting interesting, actually.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-04-29 07:26pm

It's not hard figure enough, I like the grounding that actual numbers can give for military action as opposed to RPing that as well

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-04-29 07:29pm

Super-Gagme wrote:Why don't we try to adapt one? Or make one? There must be a way to simulate the detail of Empire management in an abstract way, so to stay away from the "spreadsheet issue" as you say.

There is a way, Imperium (the board game) and Third Imperium (another boardgame, very similar to the first) does it pretty well. Unfortunately being a board game it has lots of pieces.

There are two options: you can have a board game with pieces being the "information"...

or

you can have something like a D&D character sheet and adapt it to fit a nation in it (instead of playing a "character" you play a "nation" - abilities can be renamed "industry," skills might be changed to "units" etc...) This is where the problem of "spreadsheets" come in, because sometimes you can have information overload.

Besides you want a modern strategy game. While I would want a B5 one. Not exactly compatible...

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-04-29 07:31pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Stofsk wrote:You see I would love to play a game where I'm a leader of an interstellar empire with destroyers and fighters and so on... implementing such a game so that it remains clear and consise would be a problem.
STGOD!

Yeah, but I hate jumping into something that's already in the middle of things, y'know? Plus I echo Super-gagme's sentiments - I would prefer something which has groundings in rules so that the things you can do are not rediculously overpowering. Strategy depends on what you have to work with. If what you have to work with isn't structured or organised then... well, what's the point?

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-04-29 07:32pm

Well I should have been more explicit, I do want something more B5, while Modern was my lowest limit if I had no other choice.

Exmoor Cat · Post by **Exmoor Cat** » 2004-04-30 06:08am

Hiya,
I've played several Play By Mail games that involved VERY detailed RPG elements, currently playing a play by email Dune campaign, in which everyone plays a head of house.

Agema Publications seems to run most of the ones this side of the pond.

I also recall that D&D has an entire "strategic" line of supplements under the "Birthright" title.

lance · Post by **lance** » 2004-05-02 01:06am

Try the Birthright campain setting from 2nd edition D&D. You got to rule your own nation in its battle for the throne.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-02 10:00am

I think everyone missed the part where I said "modern and up".

Exmoor Cat · Post by **Exmoor Cat** » 2004-05-02 10:58am

In that case, the nearest I can think of is the old GDW Twilight 2000 and Twilight 2300 systems. When we played it, we managed to spin off into new state crations in Europe.