Alyrium Denryle wrote:The D&D rules state that it is increased difficulty of they are told to do something fundmantally agaisnt their nature, like kill their little sister. Get your facts straight.
bullshit. page 183, player's handbook. "If the creature is currently being threattened or attacked by you or your allies, however, he receives a +5 bonus on his saving throw." Want to try again? But wait, there is more. "You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed charisma check to convince him to do anything he wouldn't ordinarily do."
Alyrium Denryle wrote:I used mind control in THAT ONE INSTANCE, and have not used it since. And if you bothered to read my posts you would know that it only served to ease the initial shock of the invasion for a few days until we could get an infastructure going.
I don't care how many times you have used it, and obviously you used it twice. Once on the fleet above, and once in the planet below.
Alyrium Denryle wrote:and I have not spend any money on mercs. Never touched them. THEY reinvested 920 billion on their ship yards.
Point conceded and I do believe it was 920 million.
Alyrium Denryle wrote:We are a libertarian state. We dont waste money on social programs or any of that crap, almost all government spending goes into the military and into things like... portals.. and schools, police and courts.
Ah, so there is no safety net in your world at all. I suppose that everyone in your worlds is wealthy? Its good to know.
Alyrium Denryle wrote:That is IT. Our GNP is up there pretty damn high. Especially when we dont use fiat money. We use gold. Do you have any idea how in-demand actual hard currency would be? Not only that, but because the people arent taxed to death like they are in all your(relativly) socialist powers, they can start up businesses and make money hand over fist, which allows us to bring in more tax money without ever having to deficit spend or raise the percentage of taxation.
What is your economy based on? Since your technological level is that of 14th century Europe and most people outside of your empire cannot use magic, what do you export? Gold? I don't think that any nation other than yours uses gold as currency (I use predominantly electronic transaction) and I am sure as hell not on a gold standard economy. So, the government gets money how if there are no taxes? They can start business doing what and selling what again?
note: if you want to stick to DnD terms for charming people, why not stick to the range of the spell as well? Just something to consider.
Zing.
The wisdom of PA:
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Thirdfain wrote:I think it's safe to assume that any Covenant vessels he has are largely wrecks, a few badly damaged survivors out of the original fleets- months of yard work certainly, and not yard work he can do at his tech level without using natives to help.
escatly. They are there, but they are as yet, not in service. To be fair, that was a mistake on my part in the post in question, and I seem to remember acknowledging that a long long time ago
That is pretty fair. Under those circumstances I would have no complaints, except to try and ascertain just exactly how many ships the Arcane Empire managed to scrounge up from the wrecks of the CoG fleets.
Since your technological level is that of 14th century Europe and most people outside of your empire cannot use magic, what do you export?
Foodstuffs, rare metals, gems, ores, wood, craftgoods and luxury goods.
That's what he can and most likey does export. Also has witnessed in another thread he sells magical services. I also bet planuar touristism is a big draw.
Since your technological level is that of 14th century Europe and most people outside of your empire cannot use magic, what do you export?
Foodstuffs, rare metals, gems, ores, wood, craftgoods and luxury goods.
That's what he can and most likey does export. Also has witnessed in another thread he sells magical services. I also bet planuar touristism is a big draw.
Right. Marcao's point was simply that slapping "libertarian" onto your government does not make in an unstoppable money-producing MACHINE. Actually, it would have no effect on the economy, seeing as how Aly is on the gold standard. That means he only has money equal to the quantity of yellow stuff he can pull out of the ground. That's why we went off the gold standard a long time ago... to increase our capacity for wealth well beyond what we could dig out of the Rocky Mtns.
The wisdom of PA:
-Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad
Foodstuffs, rare metals, gems, ores, wood, craftgoods and luxury goods.
That's what he can and most likey does export. Also has witnessed in another thread he sells magical services. I also bet planuar touristism is a big draw.
All of those are low-cost items- Luxury goods do not an economic juggernaut make. Raw materials are in fact quite low-cost, unless you got a monopoly.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
Certainly, that will be useful. But once again- Compared to, say, Nashtar, which probably exports a massive variety of electronics, industrial equipment, services, military items, foodstuffs, the same set of raw materials... I don't see it being especially wealthy.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
Thirdfain wrote:Right, so then you agree that they would not be immune to economic broblems spawned by heavy government spending?
See, thats the thing about the gold standard. Heavy government spending is a bad thing because once you spend it, it is gone. You cant use defeceit spending. You cant have inflation. The money goes where you put it. If you spend it on your people, you have to tax to get it back. If you spend it abroad, it is gone. Good bye, wealth!
The wisdom of PA:
-Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad
frigidmagi wrote:Never said they were, just posted what they could export.
Fair enough. Although I do agree with Thirdfain. Lacking an industrial complex gives them far less to export. They are hardly broke, of course, but missing a vital chunk of what constitues foreign trade.
Selling SERVICES is the way to go. Mercs 4 Life!
The wisdom of PA:
-Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad
Oh, regarding this whole ridiculous situation with the Floaters and the stolen spellbooks: It shouldn't even exist. From page 19 of this thread, in a discussion concerning the Floaters in the Barrier asteroids near one of my colonies:
Thirdfain wrote:Floaters aren't particularly genocidal. At worst, they are impulsive and dogmatic, at best, they are quiet and peaceful. I think it's air to say that any Floater groups you have under your protection are yours to control, with all the benefits that gives you.
Emphasis mine. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Oops.
Within the limits of Floater life, sure. If there's one sure way to turn a Floater colony against you, it would be to launch a campaign like the one Alyrium did.
Actions have consequences, ol' boy. Running a brutal police-state through mind control spells and using lethal weapons on protesting crowds would certainly turn any Floaters living in your territory against you- As well as members of your own populace.
Anyone who was in STGOD1 (or bothered to read it) would know how Floaters feel about repressive governments. If you, Rogue9, suddenly instituted sweeping despotic reforms, I would feel just fine in playing some of your citizens protesting.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
Thirdfain wrote:<< The Hajr is not interested in argueing legalities with you, but it appears to be a necessity. We are in possession of these books. We came by them lawfully. We recognize the right of the Inisha Cluster to make the law as they see fit on their cluster. The Mages were living on Inishan territory, and as such, were subject to it's laws and the decisions of it's populace through it's leaders. We are very sorry for the loss this may have caused the Arcane Empire, but if they chose to place "state secrets" in another soveriegn power's territory, then so be it. We are pleased to accept the Inishan goods, and will keep them. >>
I gotta say it. In the famous (within my gaming group) words of Mordok the Refuser...
DENIED!
The Floaters were residing in the Arcanians' sovereign territory. Unless you care to argue that I no longer hold sovereignty over Barrier's third asteroid belt?
He can be eloquent all he wants, but what do you think the United States would do if Syria or Iran or some other hostile nation (or any nation, really) got ahold of nuclear design plans and a couple dozen tons of plutonium? For Alyrium, that's what this adds up to. And guess what the response will be? This can go the easy way or the hard way, and he just picked the hard way.
Now Alyrium could you explain in a bit of detail how your government gets all this money, or rather or rather gold. Who does all the mining?
Wait I can answer that! Dwarves!!! Little Ore hounds could find a Gold Nugget 100 meters away in the dark!
Seriously he has posted in the game thread that Dwarves do most of his mining. I don't know if they do it at government orders or for private industry.
Raw materials
Gems
Magic services
Magical luxury goods(Brooms ot cleaning et al. Wouldnt be able to be crosed over with military spells)
Exotic"pets"(Imp in a jar, literally a genie in a bottle. Pseudrodragons are great with kids.. I imagine those would sell rather well)
But to be honest most of our trade is internal. Or with other planar powers(What? You think we would have completely wiped out the Githyanki for example?)
And what of these claims that we dont tax? Every government taxes, it is just a amtter of how much.
How about private industry, if thats the right word. Who does all the mining? The government? That doesn't sound very liberal to me.
Private Dwarf Mining Guilds. The vast majority of things are done by private industry. If the Govt needs something they contract it out to the lowest bidder.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/ Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences
There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.
Thirdfain wrote:Right, so then you agree that they would not be immune to economic broblems spawned by heavy government spending?
See, thats the thing about the gold standard. Heavy government spending is a bad thing because once you spend it, it is gone. You cant use defeceit spending. You cant have inflation. The money goes where you put it. If you spend it on your people, you have to tax to get it back. If you spend it abroad, it is gone. Good bye, wealth!
You also missed that, hypothetically speaking of course, if some other powers decided to flood the market with gold the Gold backed currency suddenly experiences massive inflation, crippling economies as it goes.
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic
'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
Now Alyrium could you explain in a bit of detail how your government gets all this money, or rather or rather gold. Who does all the mining?
Wait I can answer that! Dwarves!!! Little Ore hounds could find a Gold Nugget 100 meters away in the dark!
Seriously he has posted in the game thread that Dwarves do most of his mining. I don't know if they do it at government orders or for private industry.
Yes, but you see, if the dwarves mine the gold (which is their currency) by themselves, how does the government buy the gold from them?
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic
'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
The Floaters were residing in the Arcanians' sovereign territory. Unless you care to argue that I no longer hold sovereignty over Barrier's third asteroid belt?
