The Empire vs. The Third Reich

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-07-18 12:42pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:a FLAME THROWER would cook a stormtrooper no matter what he is wearing. it is weapon that fires a extreemly hot flame. can we say Fried Stormtrooper
This is simply not true. The flame would have to be either hot enough to melt the liner underneath the plasteel liner for this to work, and while the precise thermoresistance of stormtroopers is not known, we DO know that they can function easily in extremely hot environments (at least in temperatures that can melt cheap plastics). Also, there are official sources that say that stormtroopers are virtually impervious to such tactics (ref. Tales of the Bounty Hunters). Finally, the stormtrooper would not be fried if cooked over an open flame. He would be roasted.

Baked or Fried does it make a difference! He would still be cooked alive. Ask a turkey in a roasting pot. The flame would glance of the pot but you put the turkey in the oven and it stills cooks.

PS what does being able to work in a desert have to do with resistence to a flamethrower?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-18 12:45pm

Flamethrowers might be able to slowly cook your average trooper, but there are Stormtroopers with armour and training for enviroments far hotter than a little napalm. MagmaTroopers.

Akm72 · Post by **Akm72** » 2002-07-18 01:10pm

This one is no contest for the Imperials; kiloton level blasters on the AT-ATs and TIEs, coupled with their sensors not being impeded by hostile jamming would allow them to find and destroy German aviation, artillary and armour with ease, before it became any sort of a threat. The Stormtroopers would then have to clear out the remaining German foot infantrymen, with support from the Walkers. The scout troopers on their speeder bikes would not engage in combat, but would simply zoom through the warzone at 100s of km/h, using their sensors to locate German infantry units. The Stormtroopers would use their significant advantage in intelligence to concentrate superior forces against the German units, and any German strong-points would be taken out by Walkers or TIEs as required. The Germans don't stand a chance.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-18 01:36pm

I should also say that if the only weapon the Germans have that would hurt a stormtrooper were flamethrowers, they would lose badly. Not only was the flamethrower only given to a smattering of Nazi forces, but its highly limited range would make it ineffective against soldiers that were using even blaster carbines and pistols.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2002-07-18 03:16pm

1st: Weren't Ewoks killing Stormtroopers with arrows?

2nd: If you add imperial air power, then yes the empire wins by default because a ground engagement is no longer required. No German weapon can fight a TIE or ISD; I'd leave airpower out of it.

Akm72 · Post by **Akm72** » 2002-07-19 03:50am

1st: Weren't Ewoks killing Stormtroopers with arrows?

So what? The Stormtroopers were outnumbered and only very lightly equipped, and were constantly lead into traps and ambushes within the dense jungle. The Germans would have none of the Ewoks advantages (small size, natural camoflage, numerical advantage, support from technologically advanced Rebel commandos), and the Stormtroopers would be properly equipped with blaster rifles, support weapons and walkers.

2nd: If you add imperial air power, then yes the empire wins by default because a ground engagement is no longer required. No German weapon can fight a TIE or ISD; I'd leave airpower out of it.

Even without air power the AT-ATs would be able to demolish German aviation and armour with their high-power blasters. The indirect-fire German artillary becomes more of a problem for the Stormtroopers without air support, but every time the Germans use it, the Imperials would be able to project the shell's track back, and locate the Artillary battery for subsequent attack.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » 2002-07-19 08:29pm

We see the Ewok arrows bouncing off Stormtrooper armor. The kills from arrows were ones where the arrow hit an armor joint (the black bodysuit).

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-19 09:34pm

So its hit them in the mid-section or not at all, Or kill them Via-Gernades(Shock damage)

Bascily the Stormtroops enjoy much better personal Armor the 3rd Rich Troops but heavier weapons(Such as the MG42) could throw a trooper to the ground and cut him up from just the statiscal probabilty of hit a black area

Jack Lain · Post by **Jack Lain** » 2002-07-19 10:37pm

Empire wins. For the reasons listed above. Weapons, armor, vehicles...

-Even though one could form a debate that a non-genetically conditioned solider in the German Army is capable of singularly beating a genetically hampered Storm Trooper; evidence ATOC conversations between Obi and Cloners, I don't have the movie to get the name of the cloner or I would supply it here.
But I think you could convincingly argue that a single HW squad of German troops could win in a confrontation with a same sized Storm Trooper squad. (I would also argue that a current day Navy Seal team or SF A team could beat an equal number of Storm Troopers in almost any environment except zero gravity).- But this does not speak to the overall battle in this thread.

Personally I see the Ewok situation as this:
America vs. Vietnam: USA = superior technology, training, weapons, vehicles in an environment they were not prepared for and with a home government interfering with military planners.
Empire vs. Ewoks: bad terrain, vehicles are hampered by terrain; superior technology does not necessitate victory nor ensure it - Vietnam. And for the political piece, the Emperor's eyes were distracted. He was trying to turn Luke. It would seem that even a Sith lord cannot be in two places at once ;) Again, politicians getting involved where they should not. ;) If the Emperor had not been distracted, he could have used the Force to predict the locations of the ships in space to fire the DS and he could have sent Vader to the planet surface. Ewok vs. Darth Vader! Multiple Ewoks versus Darth Vader! HA! Kiss my sabre, kiss it teddy! You know you want to, kiss it!

Empire vs. WWII German army. Empire - the fields of Europe are the Empire's playground. And forests or terrain that would hamper Imperial vehicles or troops affect the German army as well. This is an example where superior technology and firepower will overcome almost everything. There is little home field advantage for the 3rd Reich.

Similar compassion - World vs. Iraq. And the political intelligence to let warriors be warriors and not dictate the bombing of targets from a little white building thousands of miles away.

-Jack.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-19 10:41pm

I just think that the Empire wins because of three main factors: numbers, firepower, and mobility. Sorry, but I don't see anyway that even the most advanced Panzer units could defeat AT-AT walkers without enormous advantages in numbers or support. I think that stormtroopers are, individually, more capable than the average Nazi soldier, and I think that it is virtually uncontestable that the Empire's specatcular advantages in mobility would give the Germans time to organize effective defensives.

Jack Lain · Post by **Jack Lain** » 2002-07-19 10:43pm

[quote="JJP"]Empire walks a win.

It's one of those laws of hollywood that any English person must by definition be a cockney OR belong to the upper class. Any bad guy must BY DEFINITION have an upper class English accent, even in a Galaxy where Earth and it's cultural differences don't exist.

Do we just sound more evil or something?[/quote]

Ah, so its canon! heheh

-Jack.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-19 10:49pm

To quote the Simpsons, "No one who speaks German can be an evil man."

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-07-23 03:23am

interesting.

assuming the empire doesn't send in a billion troops, and that the reich is at the height of it's power, 42 or 43, then it's an empire win with many losses. stormtroopers, after all, are the elite, so you'd see a few million less armored troops, a la the guys in the endor bunker, as well as our white armoured friends.

handguns wouldn't do much against stormtroopers, but machineguns, mortars, grenades, and artillery would just ruin their day. the reich liked heavily arming it's people like that, and they would make mincement of the standard infantry.

I'm thinking, an at-st is worth a german tank, with a win going to whoever fired first. of course, once the at-ats got involved, as a standard assault force would have, the wehrmacht is in a world of hurt. they are designed to be frightening, and behemoths like those had no comparison to a ww2 weapon.

course, tie fighters would dice the luftwaffe, and with tie bombers hitting the german supplies and tanks at will, the stormtroopers and at-sts could roll up the line and take berlin.

a more interesting fight would be star wars raiding party, not invasion force - the first testing blow. a few thousand at-sts, 150 legions of stormtroopers and normal infantry. have them come out of siberia along a hundred mile front.

tho, the german artillery would be pretty nasty for the scout walkers - I would think the stormtroopers would have to charge and take the position before heavy damage was recieved.