Ted Rall on Tillman

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2004-05-03 03:12pm

http://asmallvictory.net/archives/tr040503.html

I want to be angry, but this is just too disgusting to stir anything but sadness. I am ashamed that there are really people like this in America.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2004-05-03 03:20pm

Well another SoB who should be happy to know that an unselfish man died to protect his right to spit on said hero's grave

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-05-03 03:38pm

urge to kill rising

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-05-03 03:46pm

Come on, it's Ted Rall. Who the fuck cares what that no-talent, lying assclown has to say about anything?

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2004-05-03 04:04pm

Now he's being a piece of shit.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-05-03 04:04pm

Last time I checked, political cartoons made people laugh. I'm not laughing.

Say what you want about the dubious reasons for this clusterfuck that is the new Iraq war. However, to basically mock someone who not only denied a celebrity lifestyle that would set him up for life, but also gave his life for his country, well, that's just downright disrespectful.

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-05-03 04:25pm

Just because one has died for ones country does not mean that one is worthy of respect, or should be shielded from scorn or ridicule. What one has also take into account the end (what was the aim his country wanted to achieve by bringing a soldier into a position of getting killed), the means ( how did he behave) and last but not least what did he know ? A soldier partiscipating in collective punishment, or raping a civilian does not suddenly transform into a hero just because he was killed.
I will even go as far as stating that a soldier fighting a unjust war does not deserve respect, also that is not as clear cut as the other examples.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2004-05-03 04:29pm

Thinkmarble wrote:Just because one has died for ones country does not mean that one is worthy of respect, or should be shielded from scorn or ridicule. What one has also take into account the end (what was the aim his country wanted to achieve by bringing a soldier into a position of getting killed), the means ( how did he behave) and last but not least what did he know ? A soldier partiscipating in collective punishment, or raping a civilian does not suddenly transform into a hero just because he was killed.
I will even go as far as stating that a soldier fighting a unjust war does not deserve respect, also that is not as clear cut as the other examples.

There is not a single indication of wrongdoing on Tillman's part.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-05-03 04:29pm

Do you have evidence that he raped or beat anyone? Until you do, shut the hell up.

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-05-03 04:38pm

@Rogue 9, Hamel
Maybe this was the wrong thead for that but I was not attacking Tillman, I was attacking the notion that because someone has died for his country this means that he is shielded from being mocked, which was the vibe I got from Admiral Valdemars post.
If I caused confusion or misunderstood I apologize, but I stand by my assertion.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-05-03 05:09pm

Looks like MSNBC pulled the comic:

MSNBC.com pulled a cartoon by syndicated political cartoonist Ted Rall on Monday.

Rall’s cartoon, distributed widely by United Press Syndicate to scores of newspapers and Web sites, concerned the late Pat Tillman, the NFL player who quit football to join the Army. Tillman was killed last month in Afghanistan.

The cartoon, like others on MSNBC.com, is published daily on the site via an automated syndication feed. Such feeds are rarely reviewed. However, MSNBC.com Editor in chief Dean Wright concluded Monday’s Rall item did not meet MSNBC.com standards of fairness and taste.

Now just wait for him to cry "CENSORSHIP!"

Post by **RogueIce** » 2004-05-03 05:13pm

Whoa... That's just...wrong.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-05-03 05:24pm

Thinkmarble wrote:@Rogue 9, Hamel
Maybe this was the wrong thead for that but I was not attacking Tillman, I was attacking the notion that because someone has died for his country this means that he is shielded from being mocked, which was the vibe I got from Admiral Valdemars post.
If I caused confusion or misunderstood I apologize, but I stand by my assertion.

You seem to be missing the point. They're mocking the fact that he died for his country as opposed to any other action. Mocking someone for being shot while fighting for his nation is effectively pissing on their grave.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-05-03 09:56pm

Thinkmarble wrote:I will even go as far as stating that a soldier fighting a unjust war does not deserve respect, also that is not as clear cut as the other examples.

Tillman was stationed in Afghanistan, not Iraq.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-05-03 10:00pm

Ma Deuce wrote:
Thinkmarble wrote:I will even go as far as stating that a soldier fighting a unjust war does not deserve respect, also that is not as clear cut as the other examples.
Tillman was stationed in Afghanistan, not Iraq.

He did serve in Iraq for a while, I think that's what he's referring to. Not that I agree.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-05-03 10:03pm

Joe wrote:He did serve in Iraq for a while, I think that's what he's referring to. Not that I agree.

I didn't know that... For the record, I don't agree either.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-05-04 01:30am

Can we get something straight? I appreciate what exactly US troops are doing in Afghanistan in terms of their trying to turn it from a safe haven for terrorists to a halfway decent nation-state.

However- anyone who dies there ain't dying for the freedom of an American. America's freedom is not, cannot, and never will be in danger from a band of terrorists- EVER. The only real danger that can come to America's freedom is from within. There's not an army on earth that can do it from without.

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-05-04 01:31am

Argh.
*bang his head against the table*
My post was not about Tillman.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-04 05:35pm

Ted Rall is a Gen Xer cartoonist. That says it all.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-04 05:37pm

Vympel wrote: America's freedom is not, cannot, and never will be in danger from a band of terrorists- EVER.

Want to bet so after a major WMD attack on America? The american public
will demand retalitation on a scale that makes carthage look like a sunday
picnic, and usher in the American Empire.

BoyRocketeer · Post by **BoyRocketeer** » 2004-05-04 06:48pm

Ted Rall has his freedom of speech and we have the right to condemn him in an outrage.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-05-04 07:13pm

Here's Ted Rall's internal monologue, from Protein Wisdom

Micah Wright, BTW, is the fellow who made the Propaganda Remix posters (here). Supposedly he had been a Green Beret that served in Grenada, but it just came out the other day that he was never in the military.

Notice me. That's it, not much to ask, a week of Rene what's his name, the little Puerto Rican fuck with the thick lips and that awful awful hair....notice me, notice me. Micah Wright? Christ a tenth of my talent he has, the Photoshop hack, yet all the delicious vitriol spilled on him, wasted on him, spent spent spent on him, but -- notice. Me. Notice me. I rail and I roil and I boil and assail...notice me. Notice me. Notice me. You want controversy? I'll give you controversy, not like some UMass microbe dicksucker low on the food chain -- no. I'll do it with pictures, my peculiar blend of humor, love it or hate it but never ignore it because it's fucking brilliant, I'm fucking brilliant, my art -- my art is fucking brilliant. Notice me. Pat Tillman the jock fuck asshole cocksucker with his square jaw and middle American values, makes me want to puke from the reek of bourgeois bullshit. Caspian oil. Pipelines oppression colonial aggression. Pipelines oppression colonial aggression -- easy to remember, like a commercial jingle and you suburban drones are programmed to listen. Why don't you just listen? Instead you hump to visions of muscled heroes, heads filled with funhouse images of patriotism writ large, refuge of scoundrels, messianic apparitions, like a gridiron Christ come to save the whities from the brown people with their sandals and robes and ancient Mesopotamian culture, that beautiful defiant culture. Resident Bush, oh Resident Bush, how can I serve you massah, massah? Like Colin Powell that fucking Uncle Tom fuck him fuck Rummy and Condi with her Marlo Thomas haircut...That Girl? Yeah, fuck that girl and notice me. Notice me. Notice. Me. My art at least takes risks is ballsy has guts, dissents. Nothing more American than -- well, apple pie and football and fucking jarhead jocks turning down money or terror widows whining... And -- for what? Illegal wars. Oil and oil and oily pricks like Rene Gonzalezpimp and Micah getting all that attention for a fucking lie everyone knew was a lie, everyone knew was a goddamn lie. And so what? Notice me. I try something original, make it out of nothing, whole cloth, just a pen some ink and an empty space, the void, and me and me and me and me. Me. Christ I want a hot dog or something.... Why am I even thinking of that? With onions and diced jalapenos and chips and a soda, something cold, a Diet Coke maybe. But fuck if I'll let Micah fucking Wright get the attention, or that little spic bastard with the tortured prose and the stupid stupid face. Gives good communists a bad name with that unarticulated drivel. You want anger, look at me. At me. I'm the face of anger in America, American anger at the corrupt bully hogbutcher to the world, to the rest of the world who hates us hates our culture and rightly so with its reality TV and its fast food and its comic strips. Except skip that last one -- comic strips rock, heh heh. -- Ooh, a burger with chopped onions and some onion rings and a large ice-cold Diet cola... Yeah, see how long it lasts Micah. Shit. No way. I stir the pot I rule the roost I'm the face of the angry left, Bill Maher knows it, the New York Times knew -- before those fuckers dumped me, the cowards. Fucking cowards. Everyone knows it, it's about me. The web, the web, is my domain. The web is my savior and I stir the pot and notice. Me. Notice me notice me notice me. Pat Tillman? Fuck him and his brothers and his family and his honor and the honor of false idols and criminal heroes, all the mercenaries killing Arabs for oil, too dumb to know it, too dumb to care, too dumb will go anyplace anywhere -- sent by Bush, Bush, a stinking bush, shrub weed, snatch, stole the election, the chimp. And now this Rene kid wants to take my place -- oh. I. Don't. Thinkso. Notice me notice me notice me. See what you think of my latest cartoon, wingnuts, assholes, bloodyfistedwarmongering dupes. Here's your hero the asshole the villain the sad stupid jock dupe killed for no reason for no reason, because he'd rather kill Arabs than the spooks on the football field, traded the helmet for the helmet for the Kevlar for the flak jacket for the Hum-fucking-Vee. And now look, put him in a box, nail it shut, cover it with dirt, shovelfuls -- and notice me. Me. Me. Notice me. I piss on what you stand for I hate your flag, your cars, your electronic gadgets. Me. Me. Notice. Notice me. I hate your tennis shoes and your strip malls and your SUVs. Notice me. I hate. That's right: I hate I hate I hate. So, yes. Show me. Give me. Bring the rage to me. I eat it up, chumps, I chew it I digest I crap it back out and it nourishes me. Micah Wright? Fuck him. This is about me and bring on the vitriol rightwing assholes, your pumped up steroid-eating hero is on the slab and fuck him and fuck you and fuck your country and your wars and your patriotism and do what's right. Notice. Me. Maybe some tacos, I dunno. Something spicy. For me. Yes. For me....*

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-04 07:49pm

Joe wrote: Notice me. That's it, not much to ask, a week of Rene what's his name, the little Puerto Rican fuck with the thick lips and that awful awful hair....notice me, notice me. Micah Wright? Christ a tenth of my talent he has, the Photoshop hack, yet all the delicious vitriol spilled on him, wasted on him, spent spent spent on him, but -- notice. Me. Notice me. I rail and I roil and I boil and assail...notice me. Notice me. Notice me. You want controversy? I'll give you controversy, not like some UMass microbe dicksucker low on the food chain -- no. I'll do it with pictures, my peculiar blend of humor, love it or hate it but never ignore it because it's fucking brilliant, I'm fucking brilliant, my art -- my art is fucking brilliant. Notice me. Pat Tillman the jock fuck asshole cocksucker with his square jaw and middle American values, makes me want to puke from the reek of bourgeois bullshit. Caspian oil. Pipelines oppression colonial aggression. Pipelines oppression colonial aggression -- easy to remember, like a commercial jingle and you suburban drones are programmed to listen. Why don't you just listen? Instead you hump to visions of muscled heroes, heads filled with funhouse images of patriotism writ large, refuge of scoundrels, messianic apparitions, like a gridiron Christ come to save the whities from the brown people with their sandals and robes and ancient Mesopotamian culture, that beautiful defiant culture. Resident Bush, oh Resident Bush, how can I serve you massah, massah? Like Colin Powell that fucking Uncle Tom fuck him fuck Rummy and Condi with her Marlo Thomas haircut...That Girl? Yeah, fuck that girl and notice me. Notice me. Notice. Me. My art at least takes risks is ballsy has guts, dissents. Nothing more American than -- well, apple pie and football and fucking jarhead jocks turning down money or terror widows whining... And -- for what? Illegal wars. Oil and oil and oily pricks like Rene Gonzalezpimp and Micah getting all that attention for a fucking lie everyone knew was a lie, everyone knew was a goddamn lie. And so what? Notice me. I try something original, make it out of nothing, whole cloth, just a pen some ink and an empty space, the void, and me and me and me and me. Me. Christ I want a hot dog or something.... Why am I even thinking of that? With onions and diced jalapenos and chips and a soda, something cold, a Diet Coke maybe. But fuck if I'll let Micah fucking Wright get the attention, or that little spic bastard with the tortured prose and the stupid stupid face. Gives good communists a bad name with that unarticulated drivel. You want anger, look at me. At me. I'm the face of anger in America, American anger at the corrupt bully hogbutcher to the world, to the rest of the world who hates us hates our culture and rightly so with its reality TV and its fast food and its comic strips. Except skip that last one -- comic strips rock, heh heh. -- Ooh, a burger with chopped onions and some onion rings and a large ice-cold Diet cola... Yeah, see how long it lasts Micah. Shit. No way. I stir the pot I rule the roost I'm the face of the angry left, Bill Maher knows it, the New York Times knew -- before those fuckers dumped me, the cowards. Fucking cowards. Everyone knows it, it's about me. The web, the web, is my domain. The web is my savior and I stir the pot and notice. Me. Notice me notice me notice me. Pat Tillman? Fuck him and his brothers and his family and his honor and the honor of false idols and criminal heroes, all the mercenaries killing Arabs for oil, too dumb to know it, too dumb to care, too dumb will go anyplace anywhere -- sent by Bush, Bush, a stinking bush, shrub weed, snatch, stole the election, the chimp. And now this Rene kid wants to take my place -- oh. I. Don't. Thinkso. Notice me notice me notice me. See what you think of my latest cartoon, wingnuts, assholes, bloodyfistedwarmongering dupes. Here's your hero the asshole the villain the sad stupid jock dupe killed for no reason for no reason, because he'd rather kill Arabs than the spooks on the football field, traded the helmet for the helmet for the Kevlar for the flak jacket for the Hum-fucking-Vee. And now look, put him in a box, nail it shut, cover it with dirt, shovelfuls -- and notice me. Me. Me. Notice me. I piss on what you stand for I hate your flag, your cars, your electronic gadgets. Me. Me. Notice. Notice me. I hate your tennis shoes and your strip malls and your SUVs. Notice me. I hate. That's right: I hate I hate I hate. So, yes. Show me. Give me. Bring the rage to me. I eat it up, chumps, I chew it I digest I crap it back out and it nourishes me. Micah Wright? Fuck him. This is about me and bring on the vitriol rightwing assholes, your pumped up steroid-eating hero is on the slab and fuck him and fuck you and fuck your country and your wars and your patriotism and do what's right. Notice. Me. Maybe some tacos, I dunno. Something spicy. For me. Yes. For me....*

Okay, someone call for the paddy wagon.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-05-04 07:50pm

BoyRocketeer wrote:Ted Rall has his freedom of speech and we have the right to condemn him in an outrage.

Actually he doesn't if it becomes libel.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-05-04 08:29pm

He was just on "The No Spin Zone" backpeddleing like mad..