Great Asskickers Of History

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

Shih Huang Ti - First emperor of China and founder of the Ch'in Dynasty. Through military ruthlessness he unified the 7 kingdoms of China's warring states.

Shih Huang Ti himself didn't fight, the Chin had already been manipulating the other 6 states for some time, and he had brilliant generals (Wang Jian, Bai Chi).

[wautd]

But, yes evilcat is probably right with the 300 spartans

I've heard 300 also, but I remember also reading that it was 300 Spartans plus some random allies that stuck around. Regardless, IIRC they kicked ass in hand-to-hand fighting and only fell after the Persians shot massive volleys of arrows and spears at them.

yeah they had allies at that battle but they werent any good. (apart from the Athens wich wreak havoc with their fleet)

The Spartans standed in an ideal defensive position, blocking a natural bottleneck so the Persians couldnt use their numbers. They had to send wave after wave just to get slaughtered by the Spartans, standing in a phalanx formation with longer spears. (think of a meatgrinder)


There was however a secret trail that lead behind the Spartan lines. One of the locals told this to the Persians (who offered loads of gold for this information and nobody liked the Spartans anyway ) so the Persians send a small army to the path.

This path was guarded by their allies who fled withouth a fight after seeing the Persians coming.

The Spartans knowing they would get defeated did a final charge at the enemy taking again an ungodly number of Persians with them. Eventually they indeed got finished off by massive arrow volleys (Spartans saw no honour in ranged weapons by the way, more of a womans weapons )

[The Yosemite Bear]

Thomas Dumas:

Bastard son of a slave and a French Nobelman, became one of the most prolific duleists of the 1700's, and uncanny shot, commissioned as a General by Napoleon,, imprisoned by the monarchists after napoleon's fall, broke out of jail with the assistance of his 6 year old son Alexander Dumas, and an unknown number of illegitamate kids, and duels later died deeply in debt. Real life inspiration for his Son's character D'Artanyon,, The Count of Monte Cristo, and others. Called "The Black Devil" byu Dutch, English, and Spanish forces unfortunatle enough to cross his path. So skilled as a sniper he actually had a reputation for shooting guns out of people's hands and performing the kind of swashbuckling stunts in reality that only show up in movies.

[Z-Ha-Dum]

Shih Huang Ti himself didn't fight, the Chin had already been manipulating the other 6 states for some time, and he had brilliant generals (Wang Jian, Bai Chi).

I stand corrected. Memory fails me.

China had a lot of good generals. I would add Pan Ch'ao of the later Han dynasty to my list. He did rather well in pacifying the western border of the Chinese empire.

[The Aliens]

IIRC, Oliver Cromwell and the Puritan rabble he had with him never lost a battle to the King's paladins, marking him as a mild to moderate bad-ass in my book.

[Rogue 9]

Yeah, but then they were scared off by ghost stories. That kind of negates any badassery right there.

[The Aliens]

Yeah, but then they were scared off by ghost stories. That kind of negates any badassery right there.

Oh well, can't win 'em all. Anyone pwn0ring the King back in those days deserves at least some measure of recognition.

[Pablo Sanchez]

yeah they had allies at that battle but they werent any good. (apart from the Athens wich wreak havoc with their fleet)

That's incorrect. The Spartans had a deserved reputation as being the best, but the other Greek states had powerful armies as well, which participated effectively at Plataea.

[Perinquus]

I nominate William Marshal, Earl of Pembroke.

In 1170 William Marshal was appointed head of the mesnie (military) household of the young Prince Henry by King Henry II. From 1170 to 1183 that William Marshal competed in tournaments and was never defeated. He fought in the Middle East for King Guy of Jerusalem and the Knights' Templar. Historians think that had he sided with the rebels against King John, John would almost certainly have lost his throne.

He was a serious asskicker.

Also, I nominate Harald Hardrada, King of Norway, who died trying to invade England in 1066. He was seven feet tall, and in his youth commanded the Varangian Guard of the Byzantine Emperor. He campaigned in Sicily under Georgios Maniakes, but usually acted independently, and reconquered a considerable amount of rebellious territory for the Byzantines. He eventually fell afoul of the Empress Zoe and was imprisoned, but escaped. He eventually made his way back to Norway where he successfully asserted his right to the throne.

He was a serious asskicker as well.

[wautd]

yeah they had allies at that battle but they werent any good. (apart from the Athens wich wreak havoc with their fleet)

That's incorrect. The Spartans had a deserved reputation as being the best, but the other Greek states had powerful armies as well, which participated effectively at Plataea.

perhaps

but not the ones guarding the trail

[Frank Hipper]

Thomas Dumas:

Bastard son of a slave and a French Nobelman, became one of the most prolific duleists of the 1700's, and uncanny shot, commissioned as a General by Napoleon,, imprisoned by the monarchists after napoleon's fall, broke out of jail with the assistance of his 6 year old son Alexander Dumas, and an unknown number of illegitamate kids, and duels later died deeply in debt. Real life inspiration for his Son's character D'Artanyon,, The Count of Monte Cristo, and others. Called "The Black Devil" byu Dutch, English, and Spanish forces unfortunatle enough to cross his path. So skilled as a sniper he actually had a reputation for shooting guns out of people's hands and performing the kind of swashbuckling stunts in reality that only show up in movies.

Now that was informative.
Thanks Mr. Bear.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Well it's not like he really did occomplish that much, except for becomming a heroic archetype, and fathering one of the pioneers of adventure fiction...

hoqwcwe up rhwew qirh cyreno de bergerac he was one of the best one on one asskickers in the hight of the era of the duel.

[Chardok]

Guan Yu. He has a halberd. Plus a beard. Chicks dig beards. plus he's chinese. I once saw him kill over 1000 Nanman soldiers. Yes, I SAW that. it was spectacular. I got all teary-eyed.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

I admit I only skimmed the thread, so forgive me if these have already been mentioned (or don't, whichever):

Atila the Hun: Carved out a pretty impressive empire in the Romans' backyard. Was crushed pretty hard in the end, but still a great asskicker.

Kublai Khan and Ghengis Khan: The Mongol empire is the largest the world has ever seen and, unless the nations of the world start embracing the concept of imperialism again, the largest it will ever see. It covered practically all of Asia excluding China, India, and the islands and covered some of the Eastern parts of Europe as well. The Roman or British empires were peanuts in comparison.

Shogun Tokegawa: There were about 250 other Daimyos all with large military forces, and all vying for control of Japan, and this guy conquered ALL of them. He fought one battle that involved more firearms than all the in wars in Europe combined up to that point. (It might have actually been Oda Nobunaga who did that and then Tokegawa succeeded him, I don't remember the names, only the people)

Coxinga: Taiwanese pirate king who commanded an armada of 2,000 ships. A pirate who had more ships than any state in the world at the time, including England. The only way the Chinese beat him was to force relocate millions of people, abandoning the entire coastline to rob him of his source of sustenance, raiding and pillaging.

Hernan Cortes: I personally find him to be one of the most repulsive figures in history, but you have to admit he kicked a lot of ass. Landed on the shores of an empire of millions with only ~500 men, and built a nation crushing army of tens of thousands of rebels and malcontents with his 500 men and their guns and cannons at its core, defeating the Incan army. That's damn impressive.

[wautd]

2 more i would like to mention

Hannibal, who crossed the Alps and defied Rome.

And Alexander offcourse (but already mentioned)

[Shortie]

IIRC, Oliver Cromwell and the Puritan rabble he had with him never lost a battle to the King's paladins, marking him as a mild to moderate bad-ass in my book.

He pretty much created the highly disciplined New Model Army, which was able to at leasat draw with the Royalist Cavaliers (not Paladins), in large part because their cavalry wasn't quite as good but did obey orders (one of the few high points of English\British cavalry.). He was a very effective leader in battle, always at the front.

Oh, and a small correction to an earlier post:

General Benedict Arnold ... It is unfortunate he turned traitor, otherwise his name would have been mentioned in the same breath as... other American heroes of the Revolutionary war.

You left out a 'twice' after 'he turned traitor'.

[Dives for cover]

[Alyeska]

I've always been partial to Benedit Arnold and Stonewall Jackson. Both were extremely effective leaders who knew how to command their men and pull victories out of seemingly terrible odds. Even when they couldn't win, they could pull off a fighting withdrawl and seriously bloody their enemy.

[Rogue 9]

Thomas Dumas:

Bastard son of a slave and a French Nobelman, became one of the most prolific duleists of the 1700's, and uncanny shot, commissioned as a General by Napoleon,, imprisoned by the monarchists after napoleon's fall, broke out of jail with the assistance of his 6 year old son Alexander Dumas, and an unknown number of illegitamate kids, and duels later died deeply in debt. Real life inspiration for his Son's character D'Artanyon,, The Count of Monte Cristo, and others. Called "The Black Devil" byu Dutch, English, and Spanish forces unfortunatle enough to cross his path. So skilled as a sniper he actually had a reputation for shooting guns out of people's hands and performing the kind of swashbuckling stunts in reality that only show up in movies.

Now that was informative.

And mine wasn't? *Makes a big show of taking offense.*

[Frank Hipper]

Now that was informative.

And mine wasn't? *Makes a big show of taking offense.*

You mean this guy?


Yes, that really is John Paul Jones' corpse, photographed at the turn of the last century before reburial.

[Patrick Degan]

I've always been partial to Benedit Arnold and Stonewall Jackson. Both were extremely effective leaders who knew how to command their men and pull victories out of seemingly terrible odds. Even when they couldn't win, they could pull off a fighting withdrawl and seriously bloody their enemy.

The irony in Benedict Arnold's story, a sad one, is that he was probably the man who saved the very revolution he later betrayed. His Lake Champlain flotilla prevented Burgoyne from transporting his men and supplies down the Champlain/Hudson valley while the season permitted favourable weather. By the time the British cleared the lake, winter set in. The delay was fatal to the British New York campaign and Burgoyne went on to his defeat at Saratoga in 1777.

[Plekhanov]

Alexander the Great, titular Ruler of the Known World before the age of 20? Everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten the the Great King of Eastern Europe, the Meditarranean, North Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia and India.

The biggest exponent of the light cavalry, an excellent strategist, cunning politician, scholar and a truly benevolent dictator loved by all his subjects as well as a fearsome warrior given his small stature.

Things have just not been the same without him.

He was basically an unknown quantity to most of his Macedonian subjects (their coins don’t even look like him) as he went off conquering after a few years in charge and never came back, he wasn’t all that popular to say the least amongst many of his newly conquered subjects, in this way he wasn’t all that good a king.

His troops and officers effectively mutinied on the banks of the Indus as his pointless expansionism had driven them beyond endurance. Many of his officers subsequently disappeared, a contemporary source describes life in his court as “living in a state of terror”, ever non-relative member of his expedition recorded in the sources as criticising Alexander disappears & he killed his brothers.

He behaved erratically often generously to his men but also mercilessly and brutally for petty and even non-existent infractions. He also went a bit mad towards the end of course & proclaimed himself divine.

Fantastic warrior and leader of men no doubt but all this “benevolent dictator loved by all his subjects” stuff is bs.

[Stuart Mackey]

[img]snip%20JPJ[/img]

Yes, that really is John Paul Jones' corpse, photographed at the turn of the last century before reburial.

Why did they rebury him?

[Patrick Degan]

Why did they rebury him?

He was brought back to the United States in 1906 by a squadron of armoured cruisers on the order of President Theodore Roosevelt, who not only wished to honour the legendary hero but also to advance his campaign to raise the prestige of the U.S. Navy in the eyes of the American public and the elevation of the United States to the first rank of naval powers. Jones had died in poverty and obscurity in Paris, 1794, and orignially buried in a pauper's cemetary which was subsequently paved over. A bakery was built over the site of his grave and it took several months effort of pouring over obscure and incomplete records to finally locate him.

The corpse looks remarkably well-preserved.

[Alyeska]

I've always been partial to Benedit Arnold and Stonewall Jackson. Both were extremely effective leaders who knew how to command their men and pull victories out of seemingly terrible odds. Even when they couldn't win, they could pull off a fighting withdrawl and seriously bloody their enemy.

The irony in Benedict Arnold's story, a sad one, is that he was probably the man who saved the very revolution he later betrayed. His Lake Champlain flotilla prevented Burgoyne from transporting his men and supplies down the Champlain/Hudson valley while the season permitted favourable weather. By the time the British cleared the lake, winter set in. The delay was fatal to the British New York campaign and Burgoyne went on to his defeat at Saratoga in 1777.

Arnold was the best tactical and strategic minded officer in the early days of the Revolution. His Lake Champlain victory is underappreciated in history. My god, he took young men who knew nothing about lake sailing, a handful of gunboats, and stalled a British lake fleet more then 4 times his size and power. His tactics and strategy was brilliant.

After that when another English army was marching to some point (I don't know the specifics), Arnold took his forces fighting a gurellia type campaign the whole way wittling down the English troops and very effectively neutralizing them before they even reached their target.

[Exmoor Cat]

Sounds like the lead up to Saratoga??

The Strategic value of Lake Champlain is underrated by historians - it effectively stopepd the counter-invasion in the 1812-1815 war as well.