Another unit Mutinies!
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- MKSheppard
- Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
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- Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm
Another unit Mutinies!
So Sad, from dominating Europe 60 years ago to hiding like rabbits
German troops 'hid like rabbits' in Kosovo riots
By Tony Paterson in Berlin
(Filed: 09/05/2004)
German troops serving with the Kfor international
peacekeeping contingent in Kosovo have been accused of hiding in barracks "like frightened rabbits" during the inter-ethnic rioting that erupted in the province in March.
A hard-hitting German police report sent to the Berlin government last week criticises the troops for cowardice and for their failure to quell the rioting in which 19 people died and about 900 others were injured.
The charges - the most serious made against the German army since the Second World War - have been levelled by police officers serving with Unmik, the United Nations civil administration in Kosovo.
During the two-day riots between Albanian and Serbs, an Albanian mob burnt and looted 29 Serb churches and monasteries in the southern city of Prizren, and caused several thousand Serbs to flee their homes.
Leaked excerpts from the report on the conduct of the 3,600-strong German contingent based in Prizren disclose that Unmik police were left to fend for themselves at the height of the rioting.
"Despite continuous appeals for help from Kfor, nobody from the military appeared to back up the police," the report said. "Kfor proved to be incapable of carrying out the duties to which it has been assigned."
Further damning evidence, based on interviews with Unmik officers, Serb church leaders and unnamed UN officials in Prizren, was published in Der Spiegel magazine.
The magazine concluded: "The German soldiers ran away and hid like frightened rabbits in their barracks. They only reappeared in armoured vehicles after the Albanian mob had wreaked its havoc and left a trail of destruction."
Col Dieter Hintelmann, who heads the German Kfor contingent in Prizren, insisted that his men had simply obeyed Kfor rules of engagement. They prohibit troops from protecting buildings and allow the use of firearms only in self-defence. "We were acting exactly according to the rules," he said.
However, the Unmik officers claim that the Kfor troops had breached their rules of engagement because they failed to protect them even though they were legally bound to do so.
The allegations have come as a severe embarrassment to Gerhard Schroder's government, which in the past has gone out of its way to praise the German Kfor contingent for the role it played in the troubled province through its excellent contacts with local people.
After the rioting, Serb Orthodox church leaders in Kosovo described the German deployment in the region as a mistake, and demanded the troops withdraw.
So far, the German government has refused to acknowledge publicly the complaints made in the police report. However, the defence ministry is believed to be recommending that the law be changed, allowing soldiers to use tear gas grenades for riot control.
************************
Shit like this makes me ashamed to be of German Descent, and only
intensifies my desire to carry out a MILLENIUM-style operation where
I use a time machine to grab german soldiers in WWII moments from
their death, and replace them with these modern day cowards...no one
will notice the difference, especially if we limit it to Panzer crews and
Bismarck crewmen
German troops 'hid like rabbits' in Kosovo riots
By Tony Paterson in Berlin
(Filed: 09/05/2004)
German troops serving with the Kfor international
peacekeeping contingent in Kosovo have been accused of hiding in barracks "like frightened rabbits" during the inter-ethnic rioting that erupted in the province in March.
A hard-hitting German police report sent to the Berlin government last week criticises the troops for cowardice and for their failure to quell the rioting in which 19 people died and about 900 others were injured.
The charges - the most serious made against the German army since the Second World War - have been levelled by police officers serving with Unmik, the United Nations civil administration in Kosovo.
During the two-day riots between Albanian and Serbs, an Albanian mob burnt and looted 29 Serb churches and monasteries in the southern city of Prizren, and caused several thousand Serbs to flee their homes.
Leaked excerpts from the report on the conduct of the 3,600-strong German contingent based in Prizren disclose that Unmik police were left to fend for themselves at the height of the rioting.
"Despite continuous appeals for help from Kfor, nobody from the military appeared to back up the police," the report said. "Kfor proved to be incapable of carrying out the duties to which it has been assigned."
Further damning evidence, based on interviews with Unmik officers, Serb church leaders and unnamed UN officials in Prizren, was published in Der Spiegel magazine.
The magazine concluded: "The German soldiers ran away and hid like frightened rabbits in their barracks. They only reappeared in armoured vehicles after the Albanian mob had wreaked its havoc and left a trail of destruction."
Col Dieter Hintelmann, who heads the German Kfor contingent in Prizren, insisted that his men had simply obeyed Kfor rules of engagement. They prohibit troops from protecting buildings and allow the use of firearms only in self-defence. "We were acting exactly according to the rules," he said.
However, the Unmik officers claim that the Kfor troops had breached their rules of engagement because they failed to protect them even though they were legally bound to do so.
The allegations have come as a severe embarrassment to Gerhard Schroder's government, which in the past has gone out of its way to praise the German Kfor contingent for the role it played in the troubled province through its excellent contacts with local people.
After the rioting, Serb Orthodox church leaders in Kosovo described the German deployment in the region as a mistake, and demanded the troops withdraw.
So far, the German government has refused to acknowledge publicly the complaints made in the police report. However, the defence ministry is believed to be recommending that the law be changed, allowing soldiers to use tear gas grenades for riot control.
************************
Shit like this makes me ashamed to be of German Descent, and only
intensifies my desire to carry out a MILLENIUM-style operation where
I use a time machine to grab german soldiers in WWII moments from
their death, and replace them with these modern day cowards...no one
will notice the difference, especially if we limit it to Panzer crews and
Bismarck crewmen
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
- Sea Skimmer
- Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
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Glad to see the UN is capable of such fine work in a situation a thousand times more stable and less intense then Iraq.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
- Admiral Valdemar
- Outside Context Problem
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Unfortunate
It's unfortunate that the Germans CO chose not to employ his troops in this incident. The Germans actually have good soldiers, so don't blame them for what was the CO's decision.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
- GySgt. Hartman
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Oh, so now it's the UN's fault, just like all the other bad things that happen in the world?Sea Skimmer wrote:Glad to see the UN is capable of such fine work in a situation a thousand times more stable and less intense then Iraq.
"If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training, you will be a weapon,
you will be a minister of death, praying for war." - GySgt. Hartman
"God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see." - GySgt. Hartman
you will be a minister of death, praying for war." - GySgt. Hartman
"God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see." - GySgt. Hartman
- GySgt. Hartman
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Re: Another unit Mutinies!
WTF? Because one unit didn't do its job all Germans are cowards? Just like all US citizens are sadists because of what happened in Iraq? Just like all Muslims are terrorists since 9/11? That makes me sad.MKSheppard wrote:Shit like this makes me ashamed to be of German Descent, [...]
"If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training, you will be a weapon,
you will be a minister of death, praying for war." - GySgt. Hartman
"God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see." - GySgt. Hartman
you will be a minister of death, praying for war." - GySgt. Hartman
"God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see." - GySgt. Hartman
Not the UN's fault
This isn't the UN's fault unless they told KFOR not to get involved but I believe that KFOR is under NATO command, so this has nothing to do with the UN. Anyhow regardless of the command situation the decison ultimatly was the German's CO to make and he should be held accountable for it.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Re: Another unit Mutinies!
Shep there's no need to be ashamed of your German heritage. I have been on exercises with German troops and can testify to their high caliber. This was obviously a poor decision made by their CO.MKSheppard wrote: Shit like this makes me ashamed to be of German Descent, and only
intensifies my desire to carry out a MILLENIUM-style operation where
I use a time machine to grab german soldiers in WWII moments from
their death, and replace them with these modern day cowards...no one
will notice the difference, especially if we limit it to Panzer crews and
Bismarck crewmen
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
- Xenophobe3691
- Sith Marauder
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too true, xeno....
The poor Germans got the stuffings kicked out of them. But that doesn't diminish what some of these generals accomplished in the arts of war. Guderian, Rommel, Manstein, and others had accomplished.
But as you so rightly pointed out, it took the entire world to gang up on them to put them in their place. And even then, they still came so very close to actually winning.
Think about the Mongols... nobody denied them anything except themselves.
The poor Germans got the stuffings kicked out of them. But that doesn't diminish what some of these generals accomplished in the arts of war. Guderian, Rommel, Manstein, and others had accomplished.
But as you so rightly pointed out, it took the entire world to gang up on them to put them in their place. And even then, they still came so very close to actually winning.
Think about the Mongols... nobody denied them anything except themselves.
- Dahak
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Funny, but that piece of information didn't even made it to any news outlet here in Germany as, frankly, no one gives a shit about our military. It doesn't even make front page when German soldiers die abroad.
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"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC
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Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
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The Spiegel did report about it with a multipage article.Dahak wrote:Funny, but that piece of information didn't even made it to any news outlet here in Germany as, frankly, no one gives a shit about our military. It doesn't even make front page when German soldiers die abroad.
If you are ready to pay 50 cent you can read here
what the Spiegel has to say
If you want to go to the library Spiegel 19/2004
- Dahak
- Emperor's Hand
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The real issue is: who cares?Thinkmarble wrote:The Spiegel did report about it with a multipage article.Dahak wrote:Funny, but that piece of information didn't even made it to any news outlet here in Germany as, frankly, no one gives a shit about our military. It doesn't even make front page when German soldiers die abroad.
If you are ready to pay 50 cent you can read here
what the Spiegel has to say
If you want to go to the library Spiegel 19/2004
If it was a real issue, Spiegel wouldn't have hidden it away in their printed version.
I haven't heard about it until this day... And I really don'T know anyone who has...
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC
GALE Force Euro Wimp
Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
- GySgt. Hartman
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There is another article here.
I don't know how reliable the telegraph is; another possible scenario is if the soldiers were for some reason not allowed to use their weapons, in which case they wouldn't have had much of a choice. I would like to have more information on this before I make a judgment.
I don't know how reliable the telegraph is; another possible scenario is if the soldiers were for some reason not allowed to use their weapons, in which case they wouldn't have had much of a choice. I would like to have more information on this before I make a judgment.
"If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training, you will be a weapon,
you will be a minister of death, praying for war." - GySgt. Hartman
"God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see." - GySgt. Hartman
you will be a minister of death, praying for war." - GySgt. Hartman
"God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see." - GySgt. Hartman
- K. A. Pital
- Glamorous Commie
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To judge by one incident is wrong. If we do so, the troops in Iraq could be called torturers alltogether.
I am not ashamed of German heritage, I am not ashamed of the finest weapons made by Germans nowadays and not ashamed of the German soldiers.
My uncle was in the Bundeswehr, they aren't cowards.
Also, I never heard about that until now...
Oh well I'll still try to serve for some time in the Bundeswehr to see what it's like for myself... if I manage to emigrate
I am not ashamed of German heritage, I am not ashamed of the finest weapons made by Germans nowadays and not ashamed of the German soldiers.
My uncle was in the Bundeswehr, they aren't cowards.
Also, I never heard about that until now...
Oh well I'll still try to serve for some time in the Bundeswehr to see what it's like for myself... if I manage to emigrate
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
- Exmoor Cat
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Whatevefr happened to the bundewehr's riot equipment? THey have used them quite happily in support of German police during the nuclear train episodes.
No, this is the local German COs fault, and possibly kfor for the rules of engagement.
No, this is the local German COs fault, and possibly kfor for the rules of engagement.
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- K. A. Pital
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KFOR is responsible.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
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- Exmoor Cat
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- K. A. Pital
- Glamorous Commie
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I didn't mean KFOR solely. There's still the matter of command's initiative (or absence of that initiative).
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
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- Exmoor Cat
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It does sound suspiciously like the command responsibility. The Irish were operating on the same rules of engagement. THis is similar argument to that over what occurred to the Dutchbatt in Srebrenica. Compare their lack of initiative under the rules of engagement ot the British contingent in Banja Luka, who were more active against Serb and Croat irregulars.
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