Troy: My Review

Striderteen · Post by **Striderteen** » 2004-05-16 08:19pm

It's quite clear that the scriptwriters and director of Troy flunked out of classical literature class, as they manage to systematically get almost every single detail wrong. The worst part was probably the Trojans using the ridiculous Flaming Tumbleweed O' Doom instead of fighing their way to the Greek ships and setting them on fire.

Ligier · Post by **Ligier** » 2004-05-16 08:55pm

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but just how effective was/is leather armour? From what I've read, it was typically boiled in oil to harden it, but I've never found anything about how effective it was.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2004-05-16 09:27pm

It'll stop a glancing blow.

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2004-05-17 01:18am

Striderteen wrote:It's quite clear that the scriptwriters and director of Troy flunked out of classical literature class, as they manage to systematically get almost every single detail wrong.

Would it be safe to say they also fucked up the details of the Amazons, Phrygians, Cimmerians, and the Ethiopians?

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-05-17 07:25am

My gripes with the film (having now seen it):

- Menelaus is too old. No doubt, they cast Brendan Gleeson (a powerful, excellent actor) so the audience would sympathize with Helen more for leaving him for a pussy-nancy boy. I did not like this. Menelaus was also made out to be somewhat of a lecher.

- Sparta: what the fuck? Port of Sparta? On a cliff-face? Have they ever BEEN to Sparta?

- Helen: no mention of the fact she left a child behind when she ran off with Paris. Yet more undeserved sympathy for the selfish bitch.

- No anger from any quarter at Paris for endangering Troy- not from Andromache, not from Priam, not from anyone- Hector mentions it but twice and then does nothing.

- Menelaus dies: oh fucking come on. Hector would never have been such a dishonorable fuck to kill Menelaus cold turkey because his good for nothing brother was a coward.

- Agammemnon: too thuggish for my liking.

- Paris: he has NO FUCKING REDEEMING QUALITIES throughout the entire film, yet he gets away clean, and it's clearly implied he lives with Helen happily ever after (no, assholes, Menelaus and Helen did), because Brisies fate was linked to his at the very end. HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FUCKING KILLED. PREFERABLY BY ODYSSEUS OR MENELAUS, seeing as Philoctetes would've taken too much time to set up.

Really, I cannot emphasize how much I despise this- his selfishness was the cause of the fall of an entire city, yet the fucking spineless worm gets away clean.

- Not enough Odysseus

- Ajax fights Hector to a tie (wounding him), he doesn't die. I guess they just wanted to give Hector a kill for the film (besides Patroclus).

What I did like:

- the fight scenes were all in all very good. Watching Brad Pitt in action as Achilles was awesome- his moves were very cool and for once, bucked the annoying, over-used fad of Hong Kong wire-fu.

- Achilles/ Priam scene

- Hector in general

- Odysseus

- costumes/sets- who cares how accurate they were, they looked good

Anyone else notice how Brad Pitt wasn't wearing sandles? Apparently, it's because he has a problem with his feet.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-05-17 09:35am

Vympel wrote:Anyone else notice how Brad Pitt wasn't wearing sandles? Apparently, it's because he has a problem with his feet.

What was he wearing?

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-05-17 10:08am

Vympel wrote:My gripes with the film (having now seen it):

- Menelaus is too old. No doubt, they cast Brendan Gleeson (a powerful, excellent actor) so the audience would sympathize with Helen more for leaving him for a pussy-nancy boy. I did not like this. Menelaus was also made out to be somewhat of a lecher.

- Sparta: what the fuck? Port of Sparta? On a cliff-face? Have they ever BEEN to Sparta?

- Helen: no mention of the fact she left a child behind when she ran off with Paris. Yet more undeserved sympathy for the selfish bitch.

- No anger from any quarter at Paris for endangering Troy- not from Andromache, not from Priam, not from anyone- Hector mentions it but twice and then does nothing.

- Menelaus dies: oh fucking come on. Hector would never have been such a dishonorable fuck to kill Menelaus cold turkey because his good for nothing brother was a coward.

- Agammemnon: too thuggish for my liking.

I agree, they totally 'Hollywoodised' Homer's writting when the guy went to specific lengths to not put a 'black hat' on this character and a 'white hat' on that character.

- Paris: he has NO FUCKING REDEEMING QUALITIES throughout the entire film, yet he gets away clean, and it's clearly implied he lives with Helen happily ever after (no, assholes, Menelaus and Helen did), because Brisies fate was linked to his at the very end. HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FUCKING KILLED. PREFERABLY BY ODYSSEUS OR MENELAUS, seeing as Philoctetes would've taken too much time to set up.

Really, I cannot emphasize how much I despise this- his selfishness was the cause of the fall of an entire city, yet the fucking spineless worm gets away clean.

Isn't that the way it happens in the book? (I haven't read the Odyssey yet)

- Not enough Odysseus

Amen to that brother. Sean Bean owned in those few lines he had.

- Ajax fights Hector to a tie (wounding him), he doesn't die. I guess they just wanted to give Hector a kill for the film (besides Patroclus).

They were building up a 'cred' for Hektor. To be fair though he did look like he came out of it second best (as was in The Illiad), so I let that one slide.

What I did like:

- the fight scenes were all in all very good. Watching Brad Pitt in action as Achilles was awesome- his moves were very cool and for once, bucked the annoying, over-used fad of Hong Kong wire-fu.

- Achilles/ Priam scene

- Hector in general

- Odysseus

- costumes/sets- who cares how accurate they were, they looked good

Anyone else notice how Brad Pitt wasn't wearing sandles? Apparently, it's because he has a problem with his feet.

Ditto, and yes I did notice that.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-05-17 10:09am

Gandalf wrote:
Vympel wrote:Anyone else notice how Brad Pitt wasn't wearing sandles? Apparently, it's because he has a problem with his feet.
What was he wearing?

They looked like mocinsons (spell?).

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-05-17 10:10am

Crown wrote:
Gandalf wrote:
Vympel wrote:Anyone else notice how Brad Pitt wasn't wearing sandles? Apparently, it's because he has a problem with his feet.
What was he wearing?
They looked like mocinsons (spell?).

Moccasins?

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-05-17 10:46am

Gandalf wrote:
Crown wrote:They looked like mocinsons (spell?).
Moccasins?

Yeah, the ankle length ones. Half way between an ug-boot (oh for crying out loud, spell?) and a moccasin.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-05-17 11:36am

Isn't that the way it happens in the book? (I haven't read the Odyssey yet)

No- Philoctetes, who was left behind on an island on the way to the war originally, is in possession of Hercules' bow, since he was a friend of Hercules and it was entrusted to him. He was left behind because of a nasty snake bite. They then found out (can't remember how) that without the bow of Hercules Troy couldn't fall (or something like that), so they went and got him, healed him, and then, at one point in the war, Philoctetes shot Paris with the bow. No more Paris.

Striderteen · Post by **Striderteen** » 2004-05-17 12:14pm

Rubberanvil wrote:
Striderteen wrote:It's quite clear that the scriptwriters and director of Troy flunked out of classical literature class, as they manage to systematically get almost every single detail wrong.
Would it be safe to say they also fucked up the details of the Amazons, Phrygians, Cimmerians, and the Ethiopians?

Yes and no; they didn't have any of the above in the movie.

Cej4096 · Post by **Cej4096** » 2004-05-17 01:03pm

Personally I'm surprised that more people aren't upset about the war being compressed from ten years into at most a month, and consisting of three battles (not counting the sack of Troy). That bugged me more tham anything else.

To me, both the thousand ships and ten years are integral parts of the legend of the Trojan War. The characters talk about how this would be "the greatest war the world has ever seen" and how people will remember it for thousands of years, and in the end it might have ended before the greeks were completly unpacked. I doubt people would be very happy if instead of 1000 greek ships there were eight, but that is the same factor that the length of the war was decreased by.

I was expecting to see Hector's son grow up as the war went on, which seems to me to be an interesting thing by itself. He would have lived practically all his life in a city under siege. But unfortunately he's a baby at the beginning, and a baby at the end.

Don't take all this to mean that I hated, or even disliked the movie. At it's worst moments I thought it was still good. I especially liked the focus on Achilles and Hector. It is just that I was quite annoyed by the length of the war, and am surprised that more people don't feel the same way.

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-05-17 01:25pm

Vympel wrote:- Paris: he has NO FUCKING REDEEMING QUALITIES throughout the entire film, yet he gets away clean, and it's clearly implied he lives with Helen happily ever after (no, assholes, Menelaus and Helen did), because Brisies fate was linked to his at the very end. HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FUCKING KILLED. PREFERABLY BY ODYSSEUS OR MENELAUS, seeing as Philoctetes would've taken too much time to set up.

Agreed. I wanted him to be run through by Odysseus while leading the Greeks away from the escape tunnel.

And did anyone else notice one mistake: the sun kept rising over the Aegan, which meant it was rising in the WEST! REPEATEDLY!

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-05-17 11:07pm

Just seen it. Loved the way they ended the Trojan war in under a month.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-05-17 11:21pm

So they left out the Ethiopians? That's too bad, seeing as how Prince Memnon (or whatever his name is) is probably the first true example of the Token Black Guy (does nothing, dies) in literature.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-05-17 11:23pm

Kuja wrote:And did anyone else notice one mistake: the sun kept rising over the Aegan, which meant it was rising in the WEST! REPEATEDLY!

Holly shit dude! I think that you are right!

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-05-18 12:24am

Crown wrote:
Kuja wrote:And did anyone else notice one mistake: the sun kept rising over the Aegan, which meant it was rising in the WEST! REPEATEDLY!
Holly shit dude! I think that you are right!

Of course I am! I couldn't help but keep noticing! The first time, I turned to my friend and said:

ME: Hey, check it out! The sun's rising in the west!
HIM: No, I think it's setting.
ME: No, I'm pretty sure it's rising...

*silence until next sunrise*

ME: See, see?! It's doing it again!
HIM: Holy fuck, you're right!
ME: Didn't anyone notice that while they were filming?
HIM: Too busy staring at Helen and drooling.
ME: Good point.

*next sunrise*

ME: Do I really need to point it out again?
HIM: Nope.

It was fucking hilarious!

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-05-18 12:25am

HemlockGrey wrote:So they left out the Ethiopians? That's too bad, seeing as how Prince Memnon (or whatever his name is) is probably the first true example of the Token Black Guy (does nothing, dies) in literature.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-05-18 12:27am

Kuja wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:So they left out the Ethiopians? That's too bad, seeing as how Prince Memnon (or whatever his name is) is probably the first true example of the Token Black Guy (does nothing, dies) in literature.

It doesn't actually describe the Ethiopians in The Illiad though, are we sure that they are black?

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-05-18 03:20am

Well, they are from Ethiopia

Yes, the 10 year to 15-day thing really did bother the shit out of me. Guess they just couldn't handle it.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-05-18 03:29am

As a miniseries it might have worked. But I doubt that it would for a three hour long movie. The way that time would have to shift would be awkward.

Even if it was over 10 years, the war would still have to be incredibly compressed.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-05-18 04:10am

To me, the thing that bothered me the most was the placement of LOTR characters in prominent roles. Boromir did well as Odysseus, king of Ithaca, but Legolas was an abysmal Paris, wholly incompetent at swordplay and needing to fall back on his trademark bow.

Casting Gimli son of Gloin as Ajax was a bold move, but you can see in some places that camera tricks weren't enough to keep his fight scenes from looking hokey. The same can be said for Pippin's role as Patroclus. Gandalf did well enough as the King of Troy, but I think he should stick to being a Maiar.

Tumbleweeds of doom-cool.
Helen- Good, but not thousand-ships good. Maybe 350 or 400.
Achilles- Just badass enough.

Nudity- too much guy-but, and not ONE BOOB!

That, is a CaptainChewbacca review.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2004-05-18 05:20am

Cej4096 wrote: To me, both the thousand ships and ten years are integral parts of the legend of the Trojan War. The characters talk about how this would be "the greatest war the world has ever seen" and how people will remember it for thousands of years, and in the end it might have ended before the greeks were completly unpacked. I doubt people would be very happy if instead of 1000 greek ships there were eight, but that is the same factor that the length of the war was decreased by.

Remember that the movie is supposed to be the "what really happened" version that was later mythologized by the Greeks ("Why would I bother with a shield then?")

For me, it was the ten year siege that bothered me in the Illiad. Do you have any idea how HARD it would be to dig fresh latrines for 50 thousand soldiers after a few years? And where the hell would Troy get it's food?
Compressing the siege to a month was too excessive, though. A year or so would be fine.

The entire war seemed like a field trip of a bunch of hyperactive children (especially with Achilles spending nearly all of it inside his tent playing with his love slave

)

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-05-18 08:09am

A way they could have handled the ten-year thing would have been for Achilles to get really pissed with Agamemnon after the first battle and run away for a few years, only returning later on when things got desperate. It still wouldn't have been true to Homer, but at least it wouldn't have been two weeks.