Lightsabers vs. Neutronium

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-05-17 12:55am

As Trek fans know, Neutronium is considered by Federation science to be one of the more dense and hard types of matter in existence. The Lightsaber, the Jedi weapon of choice, is capable of cutting through most materials; the main esception is corthosis ore. I'm wondering, as I plot out future ideas for my 'Best of Both Worlds' crossover, would a Lightsaber be capable of cutting through neutronium or is it a waste of time and energy? I'm pretty sure of the obvious answer; I simply would like scientific backup and 2nd viewpoints from VS people whom I trust and respect. Thank you.

1337n1nj4 · Post by **1337n1nj4** » 2004-05-17 01:07am

Ugh..that's a tricky one. Honest-to-God degenerate matter from a neutron star, I'd say no. I'd think it would depend more on what model of lightsaber function you subscribe to...and even then, it'd probably be pushing it.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2004-05-17 01:18am

The thing is, are we talking about "Honest-to-God degenerate matter from a neutron star" as 1337n1nj4 puts it, or are we talking about it being in some kind of "practical" forms which would be in use in either universe.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-05-17 01:22am

Lord of the Farce wrote:The thing is, are we talking about "Honest-to-God degenerate matter from a neutron star" as 1337n1nj4 puts it, or are we talking about it being in some kind of "practical" forms which would be in use in either universe.

Trek neutronium; I can't ever recall seeing it brought up in 'Wars' though...

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2004-05-17 01:35am

JME2 wrote:
Lord of the Farce wrote:The thing is, are we talking about "Honest-to-God degenerate matter from a neutron star" as 1337n1nj4 puts it, or are we talking about it being in some kind of "practical" forms which would be in use in either universe.
Trek neutronium; I can't ever recall seeing it brought up in 'Wars' though...

By "practical" forms, I'm talking about "Dura-armour" and the "neutronium impregnated" hull of the Acclamator (as examples).

Jaepheth · Post by **Jaepheth** » 2004-05-17 02:02am

if you had enough "honest to God neutronium" in one place large enough to be cut, wouldn't the gravity kill whoever was trying to cut it, or simply crush the lightsaber? or am I thinking of a different material?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-05-17 03:04am

I've always been kind of critical of "no-limit" lightsabre claims. There should be very resistant and difficult to cut materials; there should be a range of effectiveness.

Also: Mandalorian Iron is resistant to lightsabre strikes; as is armor-impregnated with cortosis ore (as opposed to deactivating the lightsabre as in pure cortosis or pure cortosis weaved in over the surface of the defended item).

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-05-17 03:55am

Well, Canon trumps EU, and in the canon we see lightsabres bounce off things several times, as well as Darth Vader's armour resisting, if not outright stopping, Luke's sabre.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-05-17 06:30am

Very true.

here are some things I remember deflecting or resisting a Lightsaber blade (both EU and Movies)

Movies
Vader's Sith Armor (it's been augmented by the Force and Sith practices)
The Blast/Security doors on a Trade Federation ship
Another lightsaber (duh, I know...)

Arguable: AT-AT armor (ESB); Did luke aim for one point, or to slash open a section?

Novels/EU
The Energy Matrix creature from 'World of Fire' Comic novel.
The Mandalorian Iron in Lumiya's lightwhip (Star Wars comics)
The 'lava' snake's skin in the Jedi Academy Trilogy
(I don't remember if Qauntum Armor vs Lightsaber ever happened)
Cortosis Weave
Shadow Trooper Armor (Jedi Knight video game)
Killian Ranger shield gauntlets (don't know the primary source, but it's in the Star Wars D20 RPG)
Sith Weapons and Armor (pre-Darth Bane comics)
Vong Weapons and Armor (NJO novels etc)

It's arguable how effective a Lightsaber would be against a ship hull. In one of the post ESB comics, Luke used one to cut his way inside a Corellian Corvette that had shot his X-Wing down, but in fairness, a modified Probot had also managed to cut it's away in.

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2004-05-17 07:54am

Solauren wrote:It's arguable how effective a Lightsaber would be against a ship hull. In one of the post ESB comics, Luke used one to cut his way inside a Corellian Corvette that had shot his X-Wing down, but in fairness, a modified Probot had also managed to cut it's away in.

It's effective against the outher armor of a Katana fleet dreadnougt.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2004-05-17 08:33am

Lightsabers cut throrugh pretty much anything, including cortosis - it's just that the saber shorts out before making much damage. Several types of materials are however resistant, not but so far I'm not aware of anything demonstrably immune that's not energy.

The density of real neutronium surpasses the intensity level of a lightsaber as far as I can tell. I simply went with 100 MW output and checked the energy density for a presumably molecular thin blade. It's VERY high, but certainly not limitless.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-05-17 03:06pm

Solauren wrote:
Arguable: AT-AT armor (ESB); Did luke aim for one point, or to slash open a section?

Not arguable at all. Luke hit a lock release that opened a small access door. He never once penetrated the armor.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-05-17 07:30pm

Ah, thank you for the At-AT clarification.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-05-17 07:34pm

Solauren wrote:Ah, thank you for the At-AT clarification.

Ditto.

Jaepheth · Post by **Jaepheth** » 2004-05-17 09:09pm

Wouldn't a superconductor be immune to a lightsaber?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-05-18 01:05am

Jaepheth wrote:Wouldn't a superconductor be immune to a lightsaber?

For a short time maybe. The light saber would eventualy heat it up to a point where it melts.

Kerneth · Post by **Kerneth** » 2004-05-18 01:12am

Perhaps rather than say that something is "immune" to lightsaber resistant strikes, say it's "resistant". Yuuzhan Vong vonduun-crab armor was highly resistant to lightsaber strikes (at least in the early books of the NJO, though it seemed to get less resistant as the series went on) as were their amphistaffs...but neither armor nor amphistaff was immune, it just took multiple strikes or continuous exposure to cut through.

As we saw in Phantom Menace, given sufficient time, a lightsaber can cut through even a set of starship blast doors (would those be made of the same material as the hull plating, given what they're used for?). However, the length of time required and the exposure necessitated makes cutting through something like that impractical in a combat environment, or another situation where speed is necessary.

Ergo, while nothing (except another lightsaber or cortosis ore, or perhaps quantum armor) is strictly immune to a lightsaber strike, numerous materials may exist that are sufficiently resistant to make cutting through them with a lightsaber a practical impossibility.

omegaLancer · Post by **omegaLancer** » 2004-05-18 03:20am

evilcat4000 wrote:
Jaepheth wrote:Wouldn't a superconductor be immune to a lightsaber?
For a short time maybe. The light saber would eventualy heat it up to a point where it melts.

this was not the case in the "shatterpoint" Novel Jedi master Windu fought a force sensitive native that used superconductor shields/vibro sword created from hull of an old spacecraft.

As it seem the shield proved to be able to deflect blows form the light saber with no ill effect.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2004-05-18 07:30am

omegaLancer wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:
Jaepheth wrote:Wouldn't a superconductor be immune to a lightsaber?
For a short time maybe. The light saber would eventualy heat it up to a point where it melts.
this was not the case in the "shatterpoint" Novel Jedi master Windu fought a force sensitive native that used superconductor shields/vibro sword created from hull of an old spacecraft.

As it seem the shield proved to be able to deflect blows form the light saber with no ill effect.

"Eventually" can mean a relatively long time, especially if we throw in the involvement of SW tech.

hvb · Post by **hvb** » 2004-05-18 11:03am

The shield would have time to cool between blows. To heat it efficiently the lightsabre would need to be in contact with the shield most of the time, rather then only during the time of the strike itself. And in an exchange of blows the opponent would get you good with his sword while you dansed around with your sabre "as glued to his shield as possible". Even a Jedi's ability to predict his opponents moves could not help him avoid being clubbered in this situation.

Thus the superconducting shield is a very good defence against a lightsabre (if you are better at interposing the shield then the Jedi is at slicing and dicing with his sabre of course

), an important note for any "versus" writer using universes with high or room temperature superconductors.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-05-18 07:34pm

Jaepheth wrote:Wouldn't a superconductor be immune to a lightsaber?

It would have to be able to conduct at extremely high temperatures (the blade itself isn't hot, but does create heat when it interacts with stuff). Although SW superconductors could probably do that with no problem.

Jaepheth · Post by **Jaepheth** » 2004-05-18 10:04pm

yeah, I was thinking that because my understanding of lightsabers was that it's an energy arc emitted and recieved through superconductors. So I thought, if you take those same superconductors and create a shield out of them, and then connect he shield to an empty energy cell of the same type the lightsaber uses, then you'd have a shield that not only is lightsaber proof, but could also drain a lightsaber's power as fast as it's emitted.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-05-18 10:10pm

There is already a shield device that is lightsaber resistent. Hell, it can be used for most of the defensive tricks of a lightsaber, including deflecting blaster bolts.

It's a Killian Ranger shield gauntlet.

Heck, in the StarWars D20 game I am in, I'm playing a Jedi and I'm planning on getting him on eventually in addition to his lightsaber. Then I go get a Lamarsk Disc Launcher, hook it into the S.G so when the launcher fires, the shield opens a hole or lowers to let the projectile out, and I'm good to go

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2004-05-18 11:51pm

There was an instance in KJA's book Jedi Search where Luke fought a kava creature (don't ask) on one of his potential students' home planets. The creature had scales of some sort of highly temperature-resistant silica; a hard blow by Luke with his saber merely nicked a scale (but proved to be enough damage that the creature died when the lava hit the scale).

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-05-19 12:44am

omegaLancer wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:
Jaepheth wrote:Wouldn't a superconductor be immune to a lightsaber?
For a short time maybe. The light saber would eventualy heat it up to a point where it melts.
this was not the case in the "shatterpoint" Novel Jedi master Windu fought a force sensitive native that used superconductor shields/vibro sword created from hull of an old spacecraft.

As it seem the shield proved to be able to deflect blows form the light saber with no ill effect.

Since the superconductor is made of SW tech it would be able to conduct heat even at very high temperature. It weuld take a long time to heat it to a point where its superconductive properties are lost.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Lightsabers vs. Neutronium

Lightsabers vs. Neutronium

shatter point

Re: shatter point

Re: shatter point