STGOD 4 OOC Thread

[Hotfoot]

We informed the monocorans that we would privide our own security, it is a reasonable assumption they would cooperate

Um, right. I don't see cooperation there. I see you bringing in your own security because you don't trust Monacoran security. In other words, you were deliberately excluding them. I don't see how you could possibly see it any other way, since you never once stated that you were COORDINATING with the Monacoran authorities.

One in which the photographer appeared be be a sniper and comprmizsed the security of a head of state. DO you think the SS would tolerate that?

Oh, so because there WAS a sniper (which my guy had no way of knowing was the case), NOW there's no flash photography. Why weren't any of the photographers on the ground killed then, hm? It'd be just as easy to work your way into the crowd until you were close, then shoot the President.

Your reasoning is bullshit. Sorry, please try again.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Oh, so because there WAS a sniper (which my guy had no way of knowing was the case), NOW there's no flash photography. Why weren't any of the photographers on the ground killed then, hm? It'd be just as easy to work your way into the crowd until you were close, then shoot the President.

They were KNOWN members of the press. They pass secirity screenings, your guy didnt. and they I would think, had the sense not to use flash photography. How often to you see flash photography at a presidential address? Again, answer the question. WOuld the SS tolerate a hidden photographer using a massive telescopic lense? Especially if they were not informed f his position? WOuld they kill that man f they thought he was a sniper, especially if his shots are timed perfectly with he presidents head exploding?

Um, right. I don't see cooperation there. I see you bringing in your own security because you don't trust Monacoran security. In other words, you were deliberately excluding them. I don't see how you could possibly see it any other way, since you never once stated that you were COORDINATING with the Monacoran authorities.

You realize of course that our own president uses the SS wherever he goes right? Regardless of whether or not he trusts native securty. Your reasoning on that front doesnt work, please try again.

[Straha]

Oh, so because there WAS a sniper (which my guy had no way of knowing was the case), NOW there's no flash photography. Why weren't any of the photographers on the ground killed then, hm? It'd be just as easy to work your way into the crowd until you were close, then shoot the President.

They were KNOWN members of the press. They pass secirity screenings, your guy didnt. and they I would think, had the sense not to use flash photography. How often to you see flash photography at a presidential address?

Actually they just congregated at the restaurant, no security screenings besides a perimeter of guards to keep them at a distance from the dignitaries.

[Hotfoot]

They were KNOWN members of the press. They pass secirity screenings, your guy didnt. and they I would think, had the sense not to use flash photography. How often to you see flash photography at a presidential address? Again, answer the question.

Hey, dumbass, this wasn't a declared function, it was a fucking PHOTO OPPROTUNITY! Secondly, I see flash photography going at numerous affairs on TV where government officials are making public statements. Happens all the time.

WOuld the SS tolerate a hidden photographer using a massive telescopic lense? Especially if they were not informed f his position? WOuld they kill that man f they thought he was a sniper, especially if his shots are timed perfectly with he presidents head exploding?

SS operate as a team. They are in coordination with each other. They would also confirm targets before acting.

As for being in coordination with the assassin's shots, well, that's just plain luck. Those are going to be some fucking spectacular photos.

You realize of course that our own president uses the SS wherever he goes right? Regardless of whether or not he trusts native securty. Your reasoning on that front doesnt work, please try again.

Bullshit. SS still has to coordinate with local security forces. You didn't. Once again, show how you were coordinating with Monacoran security, or concede the point.

[consequences]

Hell, I haven't even heard about it yet. For that matter, I'm not sure that I'm aware of the Arcane Empire's existence. I'm just saying that past a certain point of technological development, there is no way that simple video footage can constitute solid evidence. Logically this problem should escalate until only telepaths are able to get to the truth, and if the telepaths can't be trusted, then the entire system falls apart.

And of course you have arbitrarily declared this limit reached. Why? Because you refuse to let your nation be tricked. BS. Brown, piled high, and stinking.

But if your objective is to get me to obliterate the Arcane Empire, I will give the matter all due consideration, after I have cleansed your cancer from the universe. If the Arcanes are silly enough to mind-control any of my people, then they will move up on the target list, as they at least will be easier to find.

Oh yes, you're going to 'cleanse' my cancer. Great job so far. My industrial base is only dozens of times yours.

Well, lets see, as soon as automatons are created that can't be visually or audibly distinguished from humans, that point really has been reached, now hasn't it? If your data recordings had a full spectrographic analysis, gene scan, and who knows what else, then it might be provable one way or the other. Simple video evidence however, is pathetically easy to fake, with no practical means of proving its authenticity or lack thereof. Hell, a good enough disguise artist and vocal mimic could probably pull it off even without any advanced technology.

As a side note, how can my nation refuse to be tricked when they haven't even heard about this yet? Am I the only person here who believes that an OOC comment can remain that way?


'Dozens of tiimes my industrial caspacity'? Could you settle a bet that I have going at home right now over whether or not you and Alyrium are just in a contest to see who can powergame the most?

[Alyrium Denryle]

it is a safe assumption to make tht they worked wiht their security. At least my harper agents would have had to in order to get past the very same security.

All governments do so, it can be assumed. Perhaps however, I am to concise in my posts fpr my own good.

[SirNitram]

Well, lets see, as soon as automatons are created that can't be visually or audibly distinguished from humans, that point really has been reached, now hasn't it? If your data recordings had a full spectrographic analysis, gene scan, and who knows what else, then it might be provable one way or the other. Simple video evidence however, is pathetically easy to fake, with no practical means of proving its authenticity or lack thereof. Hell, a good enough disguise artist and vocal mimic could probably pull it off even without any advanced technology.

Yes, they could. They could indeed. But we still accept video evidence today. Guess you're full of shit.

As a side note, how can my nation refuse to be tricked when they haven't even heard about this yet? Am I the only person here who believes that an OOC comment can remain that way?

No, given how you and others have already declare you will not beleive it.

'Dozens of tiimes my industrial caspacity'? Could you settle a bet that I have going at home right now over whether or not you and Alyrium are just in a contest to see who can powergame the most?

Yes, dozens of times. I've been making regular posts of how the Overseer has been seeding and expanding. No one has done a damn thing in response except the Shi, who have gotten involved in an interesting way.

[consequences]

Well, lets see, as soon as automatons are created that can't be visually or audibly distinguished from humans, that point really has been reached, now hasn't it? If your data recordings had a full spectrographic analysis, gene scan, and who knows what else, then it might be provable one way or the other. Simple video evidence however, is pathetically easy to fake, with no practical means of proving its authenticity or lack thereof. Hell, a good enough disguise artist and vocal mimic could probably pull it off even without any advanced technology.

Yes, they could. They could indeed. But we still accept video evidence today. Guess you're full of shit.

How precisely am I at fault for the illogic of our lawmakers? I'd really like that one explained to me.

As a side note, how can my nation refuse to be tricked when they haven't even heard about this yet? Am I the only person here who believes that an OOC comment can remain that way?

No, given how you and others have already declare you will not beleive it.

Where, precisely, did I declare that? Please provide the quote where I said anything like 'The Shi Combine will never accept this material as truth'.
To give a modern parralel, just about anyone with common sense could tell you the reasoning for invading Iraq was bullshit, but that hasn't stopped the U.S. government.

[SirNitram]

Well, lets see, as soon as automatons are created that can't be visually or audibly distinguished from humans, that point really has been reached, now hasn't it? If your data recordings had a full spectrographic analysis, gene scan, and who knows what else, then it might be provable one way or the other. Simple video evidence however, is pathetically easy to fake, with no practical means of proving its authenticity or lack thereof. Hell, a good enough disguise artist and vocal mimic could probably pull it off even without any advanced technology.

Yes, they could. They could indeed. But we still accept video evidence today. Guess you're full of shit.

How precisely am I at fault for the illogic of our lawmakers? I'd really like that one explained to me.

I see you have no knowledge of the logical principle of Parsimony.

As a side note, how can my nation refuse to be tricked when they haven't even heard about this yet? Am I the only person here who believes that an OOC comment can remain that way?

No, given how you and others have already declare you will not beleive it.

Where, precisely, did I declare that? Please provide the quote where I said anything like 'The Shi Combine will never accept this material as truth'.
To give a modern parralel, just about anyone with common sense could tell you the reasoning for invading Iraq was bullshit, but that hasn't stopped the U.S. government.

But we're on to you now, you can't play us against each other.

Right there.

[Hotfoot]

it is a safe assumption to make tht they worked wiht their security. At least my harper agents would have had to in order to get past the very same security.

Oh really? These the same Harper agents that just appeared from nowhere on Earth previously to inflitrate a secure military facility? Oh, I guess those had to go through security checkpoints too. Bullshit. You're scrambling to find justification for your actions, no matter how far-fetched. If you were coordinating with Monacoran Security, you should have said so. You didn't, and thus you were not privy to the information they had, case in point, you clearly did not know Monacoran security was combing the rooftops until the Political Prince told Raistlin, which was long after you set up your own security web, completely independant of the Monacorans. You lose. End of story.

All governments do so, it can be assumed. Perhaps however, I am to concise in my posts fpr my own good.

Your government clearly didn't, as can be shown by your own posts.

[Alyrium Denryle]

very well conceeded for the time being. Still checking on the legality of killing a percieved sniper though.

Though, it is irrelevant, seeing as dalamar will be plea bargaining, and getting the Anthony Hopkins Suite for the next 25 years.

[consequences]

No, given how you and others have already declare you will not beleive it.

Where, precisely, did I declare that? Please provide the quote where I said anything like 'The Shi Combine will never accept this material as truth'.
To give a modern parralel, just about anyone with common sense could tell you the reasoning for invading Iraq was bullshit, but that hasn't stopped the U.S. government.

But we're on to you now, you can't play us against each other.

Right there.

Um, that was Darksider:

The Ousters will surely be the most vocal proponents of damning the Arcane Empire for the Rape Of Terra.

But we're on to you now, you can't play us against each other.

You do realise we are different people, right?

[SirNitram]

Um, that was Darksider:

The Ousters will surely be the most vocal proponents of damning the Arcane Empire for the Rape Of Terra.

But we're on to you now, you can't play us against each other.

You do realise we are different people, right?

Pardon me, I misread who I was responding to.

Of course, the fact you're reciting over and over again your mantra that there's no reason to use video evidence(As I pointed out above, you really have no idea what parsimony is, do you?) shows it quite obvious you're not going to consider for an instant your government would be tricked.

[Hotfoot]

I should mention that the current GCN report has not yet taken into account the recordings, since as far as I know, they and their contents have not been publicly released yet.

Expect Daul Vicioso and others to give another GCN sound bite when it happens though.

[consequences]

Um, that was Darksider:

The Ousters will surely be the most vocal proponents of damning the Arcane Empire for the Rape Of Terra.

But we're on to you now, you can't play us against each other.

You do realise we are different people, right?

Pardon me, I misread who I was responding to.

Of course, the fact you're reciting over and over again your mantra that there's no reason to use video evidence(As I pointed out above, you really have no idea what parsimony is, do you?) shows it quite obvious you're not going to consider for an instant your government would be tricked.

Hypocrisy first, then charges of stupidity(which after all can be valid, and its really difficult for the person being stupid to notice) can be answered, after additional thought.
My disdain for technologically provided proof is a brainbug originating from reading Lensman at entirely to young an age, and not properly considering the messages I was taking to heart, as such, I am probably overly zealous in my condemnations here.
Parsimony is a lovely logical concept, that works fine most of the time. However, relying on it exclusively in any sort of investigation is a brilliant recipe for drawing the wrong conclusion often enough to really suck for the poor bastards in the statistical minority.
For instance, whenever one member of a married couple is murdered, the simplest explanation(that the police usually work hard to prove is the case) is that the surviving spouse commited/arranged the murder.

Eh, who's to say I'll believe the Arcanists propaganda over yours? They are either incompetent or collaborators for allowing you to remain for that long, and neither trait is endearing.

[SirNitram]

Hypocrisy first, then charges of stupidity(which after all can be valid, and its really difficult for the person being stupid to notice) can be answered, after additional thought.

I'm sorry, misreading something is equal to being completely and totally ignorant of one of the basises of logic? From what side did the blow to your head come from that it caused such damage?

My disdain for technologically provided proof is a brainbug originating from reading Lensman at entirely to young an age, and not properly considering the messages I was taking to heart, as such, I am probably overly zealous in my condemnations here.

You will notice we are no where near the Lensman tech level, and that the Lensman books are fiction.

Parsimony is a lovely logical concept, that works fine most of the time. However, relying on it exclusively in any sort of investigation is a brilliant recipe for drawing the wrong conclusion often enough to really suck for the poor bastards in the statistical minority.

Because, of course, concluding that it wasn't the guy who you saw did it, but an invisible dragon, is such a brilliant peice of work.

For instance, whenever one member of a married couple is murdered, the simplest explanation(that the police usually work hard to prove is the case) is that the surviving spouse commited/arranged the murder.

Indeed it is. Without evidence against, it should be investigated immediately, not discarded in favor of a conspiracy.

Eh, who's to say I'll believe the Arcanists propaganda over yours? They are either incompetent or collaborators for allowing you to remain for that long, and neither trait is endearing.

Your repeated mantra of 'no, we'll never accept video proof, never' indicates your position well.

[Thirdfain]

Everyone, Darksider in patricular, there's a happy little peice of me that just can't WAIT for the end of this STGOD sos I can tell you what was really going on. The rooting around in the dark, the connections you are making, it's just rich as hell.



Oh, and come on, now folks! let yourselves be tricked! you have to admit, it's a damn good trick. Assuming you never read the OOC thread, come on now- the Arcanists left a major base of the Enemy, which united all of us together, in their territory for WEEKS without telling anyone! At best, they are RIDICULOUSLY incompotent, as in GW Bush on a cocaine binge incompotent, At worst, as more and more evidence shows (tho of course, this evidence is all sketchy, but there's a LOT of it,) they are in collusion with the Enemy, forgodsakes!

Hell, and Raistlin's death came at an excellent time (I'll just say, I didn't talk about the assassination to Nitram at all- this is just coincidence.) It looks a LOT like a cover-up, complete with a convenient "Magic Shortage."

Frankly, I think you all would be metagaming NOT to suspect this guy.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Thing is as well, it isnt in our character to take part in such deals. If we are going to kill millions of people, we will be up front about it

We clearly stated our intention of killing the Goa'Uld for example.

We declare war formally, if we are going to do anymore than a simple assassination.

[Thirdfain]

Thing is as well, it isnt in our character to take part in such deals. If we are going to kill millions of people, we will be up front about it

We clearly stated our intention of killing the Goa'Uld for example.

We declare war formally, if we are going to do anymore than a simple assassination.

Yeah, the Hajr too, we are straight up and in your face about all we do! We always clearly state our intentions, as we proved in our brief and publically declared actions againt Jormungandr, Jardan, and Krynor.





Words mean nothing, man, OOC.

[consequences]

hell, you know what you wrote

Yes, I believe being perceived as intellectually dishonest is worse than having a brain-fart, or simple ignorance, and felt I had to nip that accusation in the bud. For blows to the head, take your pick, I've been cranially traumatised from every angle, and with just about every degree of non-crippling force.
Everyone has stupid moments. So instead of simply mouthing off about my views, I took a step back, and thought about my basic premises.

You'll notice that I deliberately referred to that as a brain-bug. If I need to be more clear: I concede on the tech issue.

Ack, words failing, sleep needed. Parsimony good, just have problem with people who try to use while ignoring data they don't like. Problem with people, not with principle. Ignore prior ramblings on subject.




In all seriousness, I have absolutely no reason to believe either you or the Arcane Empire. Even if your data was legit to start, it first passed through Arcane hands, where who knows what magical crap was done to it. Meanwhile, your tech is far enough above mine that I'd have no means of determining its authenticity even if it fell directly into my lap. So I get to pick between genocidal machines, or genocidal mages. My official response will be a lengthy version of 'to heck with both of you', but if it makes you feel any better, you have lowered my government's opinion of Alyrium's people.(Although I freely admit that I'd completely forgotten about your embassy with them too).

Edited to compensate for dumb quoting mistake.

[Thirdfain]

Well said, Consequences. Well said indeed.

[SirNitram]

Yes, I believe being perceived as intellectually dishonest is worse than having a brain-fart, or simple ignorance, and felt I had to nip that accusation in the bud. For blows to the head, take your pick, I've been cranially traumatised from every angle, and with just about every degree of non-crippling force.

Ah, you're a teacher by profession then?

You'll notice that I deliberately referred to that as a brain-bug. If I need to be more clear: I concede on the tech issue.

Accepted.

Ack, words failing, sleep needed. Parsimony good, just have problem with people who try to use while ignoring data they don't like. Problem with people, not with principle. Ignore prior ramblings on subject.

Alright.

In all seriousness, I have absolutely no reason to believe either you or the Arcane Empire. Even if your data was legit to start, it first passed through Arcane hands, where who knows what magical crap was done to it. Meanwhile, your tech is far enough above mine that I'd have no means of determining its authenticity even if it fell directly into my lap. So I get to pick between genocidal machines, or genocidal mages. My official response will be a lengthy version of 'to heck with both of you', but if it makes you feel any better, you have lowered my government's opinion of Alyrium's people.(Although I freely admit that I'd completely forgotten about your embassy with them too).

You were meant to. Hell, you think I did the Rape of Terra for my health?

[consequences]

Yes, I believe being perceived as intellectually dishonest is worse than having a brain-fart, or simple ignorance, and felt I had to nip that accusation in the bud. For blows to the head, take your pick, I've been cranially traumatised from every angle, and with just about every degree of non-crippling force.

Ah, you're a teacher by profession then?

Nah, just profoundly(yet never catastophically) unlucky when it comes to personal damage. We're talking everything from 'Garage door falling on top of head' to 'stabbed myself in the base of the skull with a sword'. I somehow didn't lose my grip on the sword during that incident, a feat which still scares me.

Or were you talking about the philosophical bit?

In all seriousness, I have absolutely no reason to believe either you or the Arcane Empire. Even if your data was legit to start, it first passed through Arcane hands, where who knows what magical crap was done to it. Meanwhile, your tech is far enough above mine that I'd have no means of determining its authenticity even if it fell directly into my lap. So I get to pick between genocidal machines, or genocidal mages. My official response will be a lengthy version of 'to heck with both of you', but if it makes you feel any better, you have lowered my government's opinion of Alyrium's people.(Although I freely admit that I'd completely forgotten about your embassy with them too).

You were meant to. Hell, you think I did the Rape of Terra for my health?

Well it really doesn't seem to have horribly mangled you in the long-term. If you just take a year or so to rebuild before each attack, you should have this quadrant cleansed of fleshies in no more than a few millennia.

[Thirdfain]

SIrNitram, I'm just going to say that I've been posting continuous and massive expansion of my territory and industry. I am workng on a 33% increase in my fleet size, from 3 War Clusters to 4, and I don't expect to see it completed for months gametime. Concurrently, I don't expect your own fleets to increase in size so rapidly, unless your construction is out in the open and quite visible to the probes we are sending- frankly, massive construction on a scale 12 times that of a minor industrial power like the Shi is pretty ridiculous, especially if you intend it to be covert.

-edit- Minor compared to my power, which has been prodigiously and unopposedly expanding since the beginning of the STGOD, of course.

[Thirdfain]

Folks, in case you didn't pick through my latest Elanie post, it ends with a majordomo reporting to Basil that the Ousters have just made a press release declaring that any shot fired against Krell anti-mechanoid fleet ships will be considered a shot against their own vessels, and that the Ousters may be mobilising the 2cnd War Cluster.

This is in fact true, I put it in the Elanie post rather than making 2 seperate posts, so as to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. A press statement was made.