Star Wars version of Prime Directive?

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2004-05-18 10:29pm

Would the Old or New Republic be reluctant to initiate contact with a pre-FTL planet?

The existence of the stone-age Ewoks on Endor prove such technologically unsophisticated cultured exist in the SW galaxy, however, the fact that C3PO new their language proves that some prior contact existed.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-05-18 10:36pm

No, why should they?

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-05-18 10:50pm

Actually, it was a case of they have nothing to offer, so do a cultural survey then ignore them.

With 20 million+ worlds in the Star Wars galaxy that are inhabitable, you can ignore low-tech worlds quite easily.

There are also cases of someone saying 'not ready for contact'' and working to hide the world

Case in Point: In Jedi Academy, you go to a world a Jedi Master put a Planetary level cloaking shield on to keep people from finding the planet because they were not ready to be in contact with the rest of the galaxy.

Cases like those are rare however

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2004-05-18 11:20pm

Solauren wrote:Case in Point: In Jedi Academy, you go to a world a Jedi Master put a Planetary level cloaking shield on to keep people from finding the planet because they were not ready to be in contact with the rest of the galaxy.

The Krikkit could have used one of those... well, actually, it probably wouldn't have helped worth a damn...

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-18 11:40pm

Actually, there's no proof of contact before the second Death Star construction. Also, Threepio says they speak a "peculiar dialect". Of what language? For all we know, the Ewoks might have adopted a language that was already known in the Republic/ Empire.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-05-18 11:44pm

Elfdart wrote:Actually, there's no proof of contact before the second Death Star construction. Also, Threepio says they speak a "peculiar dialect". Of what language? For all we know, the Ewoks might have adopted a language that was already known in the Republic/ Empire.

Do you realize that your argument contradicts itself? How could the Ewoks have adopted a dialect of a language that was in common use in the Republic/Empire without prior contact?

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-18 11:59pm

I meant contact with the Republic/ Empire itself on a large scale. The Ewoks' language might have been derived from a casual, small-scale interaction (a stranded freighter crew, for example). In other words, 3PO's ability to mostly understand the Ewoks might come from his ability to understand a language similar to what the Ewoks spoke, not because of regular contact between the Republic/ Empire and the Ewoks.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-05-19 12:15am

Elfdart wrote:I meant contact with the Republic/ Empire itself on a large scale. The Ewoks' language might have been derived from a casual, small-scale interaction (a stranded freighter crew, for example). In other words, 3PO's ability to mostly understand the Ewoks might come from his ability to understand a language similar to what the Ewoks spoke, not because of regular contact between the Republic/ Empire and the Ewoks.

And they would progam this into a protocol droid for what reason again?

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-19 12:28am

They didn't put the Ewok language into Threepio. Remember, he wasn't quite sure of what he was saying to them. Their language might be based on a language the droid IS familiar with.

Let's try a real-world (but hypothetical) example. Four hundred years ago, a Dutch cargo ship is blown off course and the survivors end up on a VERY remote island in the Indian Ocean. The natives pick up on Dutch and incorporate a lot of Dutch into their own language. The island remains isolated until Royal Dutch Shell decides to explore for oil there a few years ago. When the company's men arrive, they are shocked to find that they can actually speak to the locals and understand a good part of what they say. Does this mean the Dutch were heavily involved there? No. It's just a weird coincidence.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-05-19 12:36am

Elfdart wrote:They didn't put the Ewok language into Threepio. Remember, he wasn't quite sure of what he was saying to them. Their language might be based on a language the droid IS familiar with.

Let's try a real-world (but hypothetical) example. Four hundred years ago, a Dutch cargo ship is blown off course and the survivors end up on a VERY remote island in the Indian Ocean. The natives pick up on Dutch and incorporate a lot of Dutch into their own language. The island remains isolated until Royal Dutch Shell decides to explore for oil there a few years ago. When the company's men arrive, they are shocked to find that they can actually speak to the locals and understand a good part of what they say. Does this mean the Dutch were heavily involved there? No. It's just a weird coincidence.

So he has in his database a language similar. Why not...he has six million.

The problem is why would the ewoks language have to be something that he has seen to correlate this?

Basically you're saying that the ewoks are using some bizarre pidgeon language and not there own, unless we are to assume that they are incapable of doing this which as so far the evidence is seen...we are to assume against occam's razor that the Ewoks have no language of their own but derive a variety from outworlders vs there is a language similar enough that 3P0 utlized his databank for a close correlation?

Which do think parisomy favors?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-05-19 12:56am

They didn't put the Ewok language into Threepio. Remember, he wasn't quite sure of what he was saying to them. Their language might be based on a language the droid IS familiar with

What proof do you have for that assumption ?

Let's try a real-world (but hypothetical) example. Four hundred years ago, a Dutch cargo ship is blown off course and the survivors end up on a VERY remote island in the Indian Ocean. The natives pick up on Dutch and incorporate a lot of Dutch into their own language. The island remains isolated until Royal Dutch Shell decides to explore for oil there a few years ago. When the company's men arrive, they are shocked to find that they can actually speak to the locals and understand a good part of what they say. Does this mean the Dutch were heavily involved there? No. It's just a weird coincidence.

The question is why would the Ewoks abandone thier language and talk in a foreign tongue ?

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-19 01:06am

If there's a language similar to Ewokese, it would be because the two languages have a common ancestor. The question would be whether the language evolved naturally on Endor (like the way different Germanic languages became English, Frisian, Dutch, German, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish and Icelandic) or was somehow planted there by accident (my hypothetical example). To think that C-3PO just happens to have a language in his brain that is mostly similar to Ewokese by random chance is silly. It would be like thinking the reason people who speak Portuguese can understand some Spanish is due to a happy accident.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-05-19 01:09am

Elfdart wrote:If there's a language similar to Ewokese, it would be because the two languages have a common ancestor. The question would be whether the language evolved naturally on Endor (like the way different Germanic languages became English, Frisian, Dutch, German, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish and Icelandic) or was somehow planted there by accident (my hypothetical example). To think that C-3PO just happens to have a language in his brain that is mostly similar to Ewokese by random chance is silly. It would be like thinking the reason people who speak Portuguese can understand some Spanish is due to a happy accident.

It's not random...but to say that Ewokese is need to be derived from outside sources is.

Endor was not some unknown world...it was just a primitive world. Who's to say they didn't send some survey team during the time of the OR, find the natives...translate the language and go "Now we have language 5,689,987."

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-19 01:09am

Proof? The movie.

HAN: What did you tell them?

C-3PO: Hello... I think. I could be mistaken, they are using the most peculiar dialect.

So the Ewoks are speaking a similar language to one Threepio knows.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-05-19 01:11am

Elfdart wrote:Proof? The movie.

HAN: What did you tell them?

C-3PO: Hello... I think. I could be mistaken, they are using the most peculiar dialect.

So the Ewoks are speaking a similar language to one Threepio knows.

And this shows that Ewok language is not their own?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-05-19 01:11am

Or an Imperial survey team that translated the language landed on a different part of the planet that had Ewoks who spoke a specific dialect.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-19 01:21am

It doesn't prove the language isn't their own, but it raises the possibility. The point is that just because C-3PO can understand part of what the Ewoks are saying doesn't mean that there was major contact or intervention on Endor by the Republic or Empire.

Sure, it's possible that someone translated from another group of Ewoks. Hell, it's possible that before the Republic, the was a mighty intergalactic Ewok Empire that passed its language and culture throughout the galaxy and thousands of years later, a few remnants of the language of that vast but long-dead empire were programmed into Threepio.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-05-19 01:24am

Elfdart wrote:It doesn't prove the language isn't their own, but it raises the possibility. The point is that just because C-3PO can understand part of what the Ewoks are saying doesn't mean that there was major contact or intervention on Endor by the Republic or Empire.

Sure, it's possible that someone translated from another group of Ewoks. Hell, it's possible that before the Republic, the was a mighty intergalactic Ewok Empire that passed its language and culture throughout the galaxy and thousands of years later, a few remnants of the language of that vast but long-dead empire were programmed into Threepio.

It's still in your court to show that it isn't their language, because your example is that the Ewoks use some bizarre pidgeon language instead of their own.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-19 01:33am

It's not up to me to PROVE anything. We're not in court, so I'm free to speculate. The fact that 3PO can speak a similar language does NOT necessarily mean that the Ewoks had regular or large-scale contact with the Empire. That's my point. My evidence I offered was solely to back that up.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-05-19 01:36am

Elfdart wrote:It's not up to me to PROVE anything. We're not in court, so I'm free to speculate. The fact that 3PO can speak a similar language does NOT necessarily mean that the Ewoks had regular or large-scale contact with the Empire. That's my point. My evidence I offered was solely to back that up.

So this whole thing about pidgeon language was to display they don't have large scale contact?

Why the bizarre asinine trail of logic?

That is evident in the novel given they say it.

So you're saying you're just spamming for the last 7 posts?

Jaepheth · Post by **Jaepheth** » 2004-05-19 01:44am

did those movies like "Ewoks and the Battle for Endor"; I think that's what it was, happen before or after ROTJ? Because that old guy that was crashed there knew their language, and I'm pretty sure the raiders that were also stuck on Endor had blasters (indicating a different point of origin). Maybe their language came from the raiders? I can't remember much of the movie, I saw it such a long time ago... on a VHS far, far away....

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-19 01:49am

It's called a conversation. Someone wrote that because Threepio could speak to the Ewoks, there was significant contact. I pointed out that this was not necessarily the case and explained why.

The issue is the ST Prime Directive: No intervention in the internal affairs of other planets. Is there evidence for it as far as Endor and its inhabitants are concerned? It's my assertion that there's no real evidence that either the Republic or Empire did any such thing before the DS2 construction. Sure, it's possible that there was major contact, but for the reasons I gave, it's just as likely to not be the case.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-05-19 01:54am

Elfdart wrote:It's called a conversation. Someone wrote that because Threepio could speak to the Ewoks, there was significant contact. I pointed out that this was not necessarily the case and explained why.

The issue is the ST Prime Directive: No intervention in the internal affairs of other planets. Is there evidence for it as far as Endor and its inhabitants are concerned? It's my assertion that there's no real evidence that either the Republic or Empire did any such thing before the DS2 construction. Sure, it's possible that there was major contact, but for the reasons I gave, it's just as likely to not be the case.

The Rebellion knew of it...so did the Empire. Unless They just pulled the Forest Moon of Endor out of their asses.

Thus unless for some reason they happened to they make contact beyond what was needed(what were they to gain from the Ewoks?) are you saying that they needed to establish major contact to disprove your point?

You want it shown that they had major intervention to show that they have no sort of Prime Directive...which is proving a negative. I can't show you major intervention because there was none.

Literally you want a negative to be proven and that is fallicous logic.

Jaepheth · Post by **Jaepheth** » 2004-05-19 02:04am

Because of the sheer number of privately owned ships capable of reaching any planet, I doubt anyone would be able to enforce any such directive.
Tech: "Captain, there's a primitive culture on that planet."
Captain: "Oh, well, better let them develop their own technology, mark it as off-limits. Now set course for Correllia, I need more ale."
meanwhile...
Black-Sun Captain: "Looks like the Galactic Survey Group just found a planet with a primitive culture; well, time to go play deity and strip mine the planet, and enslave the populace. No one will ever miss them."

Consider in KOTOR, the Cirka Corp. was enslaving wookies, trading advanced weapons with the leader, etc... And I seriously doubt the Empire would have any moral objections to screwing up a culture in order to exploit it, or its world.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-19 09:41am

I'm not looking for anything to be proved or disproved. One person speculated and came up with an idea. I came up with one of my own. I'm open to the idea that my theory could be 100% bullshit. But it's no less plausible than anyone else's.