US soldier gets ONE year for abusing prisoners.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-05-19 01:08pm

U.S. soldier jailed for prisoner abuse
Wed 19 May, 2004 17:20
By Luke Baker and Alastair Macdonald

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A tearful U.S. soldier has been sentenced to a year in jail after confessing he and colleagues abused Iraqi prisoners.

Military policeman Jeremy Sivits, who apologised to Iraqis at the first court martial of soldiers accused of abuses that sparked worldwide outrage, was also expelled from the army.

It was not enough for protesters outside Abu Ghraib prison, scene of a scandal which erupted when pictures were published of naked and terrified Iraqi inmates being abused and sexually humiliated.

"It's a kangaroo court, set up just to placate Iraqis," said Hala Azzawi, mother of one of some 3,000 Iraqis held at the jail near Baghdad, notorious as Saddam Hussein's torture centre.

"I wish they would get death, it's less than they deserve."

Sivits, a 24-year-old reservist, pointed the finger at others, against whom he will testify under a plea bargain, over the abuses.

Chief among them was Specialist Charles Graner who, Sivits said, pulled out a camera after stamping on naked prisoners.

INFAMOUS PICTURE

Sivits, who faced the lightest charges of seven U.S. soldiers accused so far, admitted pushing a prisoner into a now infamous picture of a pile of naked Iraqis.

Three more guards at the prison were arraigned on more serious charges as the abuse scandal and guerrilla violence increased pressure on Washington to hand over real power to Iraqis along with formal sovereignty on June 30.

Graner, Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick and Sergeant Javal Davis all deferred pleas at quickfire hearings and will appear again on June 21.

U.S. officials had said repeatedly the abuses were confined to a small group of guards at Abu Ghraib, although the International Committee of the Red Cross and Amnesty International say abuse was more systematic and widespread.

But General John Abizaid, head of U.S. Central Command, suggested mistreatment was more extensive than acknowledged previously, saying the U.S. military had investigated 75 cases of abuse of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan since late 2002.

"I think the question before us (is): is there a systemic abuse problem with regard to interrogation that exists in the Central Command area of operations?" he told a Senate hearing.

The scandal has battered the image of the United States across the Arab world and prompted loud calls from around the globe for Washington to hand over real power to Iraqis.

CLOSE U.S. ALLIES JOIN CHORUS

Even close U.S. allies over Iraq joined the chorus after Monday's assassination of Izzedin Salim, head of the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council.

A group headed by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, accused by Washington of working for Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda, claimed responsibility for the suicide car bomb.

Italy and Poland, major contributors to U.S.-led forces in Iraq, urged Washington to give Iraqis real power when it hands over sovereignty in six weeks.

The Governing Council is sending a delegation to the United Nations to demand Washington gives a new interim government more powers than intended in the June 30 handover.

Some of its members have even demanded security be handed over to the government, although Washington says a sudden U.S. departure from Iraq would risk bloodier anarchy in a country of religious and ethnic divides.

Marines at a camp near the flashpoint town of Falluja west of Baghdad said the trial, which prompted another televised deluge of the photographs, could make their jobs even harder.

"This is going to put us on the spot. The terrorists are going to hit back," said Corporal Donald Jordan, 21, of Palmdale, California, as he followed the television coverage.

U.S.-led forces are struggling against guerrillas, notably militiamen backing rebel Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.

Iraq's top Shi'ite religious leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, who rarely makes public statements, called on Sadr and U.S.-led forces this week to pull out of the holy cities of Najaf and Kerbala. But Sadr appeared to be ignoring the call.

Hospital sources said at least eight Iraqis were killed and 14 wounded in renewed fighting in Kerbala on Wednesday near one of Shi'ite Islam's holiest sites.

The clashes erupted as U.S. tanks advanced near the shrine of Imam Hussein in Kerbala, one of several southern cities where Sadr's Mehdi Army militia rose up in a rebellion U.S. forces have spent weeks trying to crush.

U.S. warplanes launched strikes on the fringes of the city as tanks went within 50 metres (yards) of the shrine, ringed by a warren of narrow streets in which Sadr's fighters have taken refuge, witnesses said.

Seems pretty lenient to me, the article would suggest the quoted Iraqis would seem to agree. The US really isn’t giving the message that Iraqi suffering or lives count.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-05-19 01:25pm

Not lenient. one year is the maximum possible for a special court marshall. He got a special for cooperating with prosecutors and diming out his fellow asshats.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-05-19 01:28pm

Chardok wrote:Not lenient. one year is the maximum possible for a special court marshall. He got a special for cooperating with prosecutors and diming out his fellow asshats.

What's the effects of a Misconduct Discharge, or whatever he got?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-19 01:29pm

SirNitram wrote: What's the effects of a Misconduct Discharge, or whatever he got?

You're fucked

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-05-19 01:31pm

MKSheppard wrote:
SirNitram wrote: What's the effects of a Misconduct Discharge, or whatever he got?
You're fucked

Can you possibly be more eloquent in the manner of the fucking? Are we talking a nice, casual fucking, rape, or 'Einy Sodomized me with a railgun' fucked?

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-05-19 01:33pm

It seems a little lenient to me untill you take the political element away. Most military sentences tend to be shorter than civilian ones when it comes to the amount of time but it's federal prison, plus he's getting busted and a bad conduct discharge.

The bad conduct is definately better for him than a dishonorable since he might be able to pettion to get it upgraded which might keep him from being totally fucked when dealing with the government or agencies who base their stuff off of what the government does or recomends.

Don't be surprised if the people with the heftier charges get slammed pretty good. Not that I'll expect that anything will make the Iraqi's happy short of cruel and unusual punishment.

"I wish they would get death, it's less than they deserve."

That is just ridiculous.

Sivits, a 24-year-old reservist, pointed the finger at others, against whom he will testify under a plea bargain, over the abuses.

Yeah, he's going to have it easy during his one year in the federal pen.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-05-19 01:35pm

SirNitram wrote:Can you possibly be more eloquent in the manner of the fucking? Are we talking a nice, casual fucking, rape, or 'Einy Sodomized me with a railgun' fucked?

Screwed, blued, and tattooed. No company will ever hire this guy in the U.S. . Even a general discharge is difficult to get over. This is a financial death sentence. He'll never even get a loan for a car or house. Dishonorable discharges are bad fucking Juju, man. Real bad. The best he can hope for is head burger-flipper. Maybe.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-05-19 01:38pm

SirNitram wrote: Can you possibly be more eloquent in the manner of the fucking? Are we talking a nice, casual fucking, rape, or 'Einy Sodomized me with a railgun' fucked?

Basically, whatever discharge you get from the military follows you almost everywhere for the rest of your life. Get below a certain level and the government won't touch you for jobs, grants, loans (student or otherwise). A lot of private organizations tend to follow the government's lead on those things as well. He's still better off with the Bad Conduct because not everyone's going to really know what it is but they will know that it's not a Dishonorable Discharge. Have fun living with one of those.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-05-19 01:49pm

Chardok wrote:Not lenient. one year is the maximum possible for a special court marshall. He got a special for cooperating with prosecutors and diming out his fellow asshats.

I didn’t mean lenient legally but more morally and politically. I understand how plea-bargains work and you appreciate how a “Misconduct Discharge” will make civilian life difficult.

I’m not sure that any of this will placate many Iraqis, all they’ll see is that to the US Army the torture of an Iraqi isn’t an offence worthy of serious punishment, I shouldn’t think they care all that much about his employment prospects.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-05-19 02:10pm

I believe that makes this the first time in who knows how many years that a government torturer in Iraq has been brought to justice in a court of law.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-05-19 03:02pm

I doubt that some of the more hardline Iraqis will be satisified by anything less than public executions.

I think we needed to make an example out of these people in order to prevent further reprisals. I'm talking about 15-20 years in prison.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-05-19 03:12pm

Joe wrote:I believe that makes this the first time in who knows how many years that a government torturer in Iraq has been brought to justice in a court of law.

Ahh, but it wasn't really a court of Iraqi justice was it? A Court Martial isn't the same as facing an Iraqi judge for crimes against Iraqi citizens. This isn't going to send the right message, no matter how harsh we think the penalty is.

What I'm more interested in is that this guy made it clear during his hearing that Military Intelligence (they still exist?) was responsible for giving the order to torture the prisoners.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2004-05-19 03:19pm

How fucked?

1. No Insurance Agency is going to touch him with a ten foot pole unless he wants to pay preimiums that make a One footed, nearsited acoholic teenaged driving a Corvette with impluse control problems look damn cheap by comprison

2. No benfits... EVER, slip, shic, nada, nothing. Considering the amount of benfits that Military Folks recieve after leaving the military(Its a little less than the ones we have when we are IN the military and considering that makes up roughly 60% of our pay is our benfits...)

3. Anything he has invested in with the military is gone, TSP took 10% of your retierment plan for the last four years? Its gone, GI Bill for Collage? Gone, Enrolled in collage right now? We don't cover the current semster that if you attented some of the classes for it, guess what now your paying for all that crap we covered up till now which is an instant 2-6 thousand doller bill headed your way

4. It becomes illeagle I L L E A G L E to hire your ass for any Goverment job or any Goverment funded, fully or partaly, for the next ten years
And yes friends that inculdes McDonalds, Most Majory Utilites, Any Farmwork
And most of the other business out there won't touch you either if they deal with the goverment in any shape way or form cause boy
Your not gonna find any sympathy from them.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-05-19 03:41pm

Personally I think he got off too lightly. But as Chardok said, one year is the maximum sentence that a special court martial can grant. At least he fingered his fellow abusers and hopefully that will lead to some stronger convictions for the people that did the more severe abuses. This particular sentence is definatly not going to appease the Iraqi's though.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-05-19 03:46pm

Given the shit listed here for what he has to look forward to when he's released, I'd say he's going to pay for this for the rest of his life.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-05-19 04:29pm

How does a special court marshall differ from a regular court marshall & under which circumstances is each type used?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-05-19 06:13pm

The Iraqis don't care that he doesn't get job options or insurance in the States. Why should they? We should have turned over these people to some sort of Iraqi court.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-05-19 06:16pm

The maximum sentence for abusing prisoners really should be longer than that. I think he should have received between three and seven years for his deeds. However, the law says that that's the most he can get, and I think it's good that he at least got one year.

However, the misconduct discharge is probably the worst part of the sentence. I'm sure that'll hang over his head forever.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-05-19 11:46pm

Plekhanov wrote:How does a special court marshall differ from a regular court marshall & under which circumstances is each type used?

A special cour marshall can sentence people to maximum of one year in confinement. There are only three juries instead of five and only a two thirds majority is needed to convict. There are other differences but these are the only ones I can remember now.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-05-19 11:49pm

A guy on my first ship got something like 15 years for slashing several people with a straight razor. I don't recall if it was hard time or not but I thought it might be a decent example of how military sentences don't seem as long as some of the ones you might expect from a civilian court, but then there are all the side "perks" of a court martial.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-05-19 11:57pm

HemlockGrey wrote:The Iraqis don't care that he doesn't get job options or insurance in the States. Why should they? We should have turned over these people to some sort of Iraqi court.

Think they'd get a fair trial in some hastily put together kangaroo assembly? Because thats the best Iraq can offer. If we didn't even follow our own laws with our own personal then what exactly is the point of trying to appease Iraqi public opinion? The situation would be beyond hopeless.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-05-19 11:59pm

evilcat4000 wrote:A special cour marshall can sentence people to maximum of one year in confinement. There are only three juries instead of five and only a two thirds majority is needed to convict. There are other differences but these are the only ones I can remember now.

Thanks for that, to follow up, does anybody know why a special court marshal with limited sentencing ability was used in this circumstance?

Why not a regular court marshal to give the bastard what he deserves and also to not piss the Iraqis off so much?

Is the brass too concerned about moral to worry about the natives?

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-05-20 12:14am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:The Iraqis don't care that he doesn't get job options or insurance in the States. Why should they? We should have turned over these people to some sort of Iraqi court.
Think they'd get a fair trial in some hastily put together kangaroo assembly? Because thats the best Iraq can offer. If we didn't even follow our own laws with our own personal then what exactly is the point of trying to appease Iraqi public opinion? The situation would be beyond hopeless.

I think the problem at the minute is that the Iraqis seem to be beneath the protection of the law whilst coalition troops are above it; this guys sentence has done nothing but confirm this impression, as did the previous discharge without any imprisonment for killing a prisoner with a rock

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-05-20 12:18am

You have got to fucking be kidding me...

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-05-20 12:20am

Plekhanov wrote:Why not a regular court marshal to give the bastard what he deserves and also to not piss the Iraqis off so much?

So, you would rather this guy go down harder, but as a result some of the others get off scot free

? That was the condition of the plea bargain: In return for ratting out some of his fellow miscreants, he gets a special court martial and thus a maximum sentance of 1 year. I doubt any of the others will get off so easy.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

US soldier gets ONE year for abusing prisoners.

US soldier gets ONE year for abusing prisoners.

Lenient