Swords Illegal In Aussieland?

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2004-05-19 01:50am

After flipping through an NRA magazine, I read an article on how Swords were now being banned in Victoria, Australia. Any of you Australians on the forum able to corroborate this? Generally, the NRA has been a fairly reliable, if admittedly biased, source of news on issues such as this, and I've yet to find something they've reported as being outright wrong, but I'd also like to see something else stating this, or something stating that it didn't happen.

If it did...banning swords?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-05-19 01:53am

From what little I know - and care, mind you - yes, having a sword or indeed any weapon is illegal. Doesn't stop my brother having a bunch of swords perched on his TV. Not that they're particularly good swords, though.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-05-19 01:53am

I don't know about Victoria, but they're very much frowned upon here in NSW.

Then again, I have a sword on my wall I could quite easily kill someone with, brought it at the local markets.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-05-19 02:05am

"This link looks like it was hacked to death by a blind woodsman. Hang your head in shame."

Also,

"But master, I -er..."

Of course, I blame the Bracks government.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2004-05-19 03:09am

If this is the case, it i just plain silly. There's no good evidence that gun control works to reduce violent crime. But this is the first I've heard of people going beyond guns to include another type of weapon - and an obsolete one at that. I say it is silly because of idiots like those responsible for this really imagine that they can reduce violent crime by banning swords... Jesus H. motherfucking Christ on a popsickle stick... Their heads aren't screwed on tight. I'd be willing to bet you could count the number of people killed with swords in all of Australia in the last fifty years on the fingers of one hand. And moreoever, what purpose would banning swords serve. How about cricket bats? Steel pipes? Kitchen knives? Candlesticks? Curtain cords? Tire irons? Nylon stockings? Socks and rolled up coins? Screw drivers? Tree branches? There is an almost fucking infinite number of everyday items that you could improvise into lethal weapons.

Are there really that many people who are naive enough to think that banning weapons will solve the problem?

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2004-05-19 06:19am

Perinquus wrote:If this is the case, it i just plain silly. There's no good evidence that gun control works to reduce violent crime.

Actually in australia that doesnt appear to be the case. Violent crimes with a firearm have dropped.

Also a in Australia if the country racks up a over dozen or so road deaths of a long week end its considered abnormal, and the police preform a crack down on driving.

We only have ~20 million people, and a dozen or so road deaths over a long weekend is just unbelievable low, for countries which just accept road deaths.

Are there really that many people who are naive enough to think that banning weapons will solve the problem?

Laser pointers were banned (for juniors) because it was ridiculously easy to cause lasting eye damage with them.

Also Australians are generally much more accepting to governmental regulation that americans or the like.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-05-19 06:49am

ggs wrote:Also Australians are generally much more accepting to governmental regulation that americans or the like.

Another way to look at it, is Australians just don't give a shit about these 'laws' and do whatever the fuck they want. So what if swords are illegal? How the fuck are they going to stop people from acquiring them? How the fuck are they going to stop people like my brother from getting a katana and putting it on top of his TV set?

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2004-05-19 09:26am

ggs wrote:
Perinquus wrote:If this is the case, it i just plain silly. There's no good evidence that gun control works to reduce violent crime.
Actually in australia that doesnt appear to be the case. Violent crimes with a firearm have dropped.

Actually, I have read figures that would indicate the opposite. A group called the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia characterizes the Australian government's crime statistics reports as "dishonest, incomplete and inconclusive" because they "focus upon the method used in a small sample of homicides and suicides or make assumptions about correlations between a piece of legislation and an accompanying drop in figures."

The group provides statistics to refute those of the government, reporting that since the country's ban, assaults involving guns have risen 28 percent, gun murders have increased 19 percent and home invasions have risen 21 percent.

ggs wrote:Also a in Australia if the country racks up a over dozen or so road deaths of a long week end its considered abnormal, and the police preform a crack down on driving.

We only have ~20 million people, and a dozen or so road deaths over a long weekend is just unbelievable low, for countries which just accept road deaths.

Are there really that many people who are naive enough to think that banning weapons will solve the problem?
Laser pointers were banned (for juniors) because it was ridiculously easy to cause lasting eye damage with them.

So what? We ban firearms from kids as well here (unless supervised by an adult). We put child proof caps on medecines. We tell parents not to leave poisonous household cleaning products where small children can get to them. We're talking about violent crime here. You're talking about carelessness of children. It's a completely different subject.

ggs wrote:Also Australians are generally much more accepting to governmental regulation that americans or the like.

Must be from being a nation of convicts. Got used to obeying the warders.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-05-19 09:51am

Perinquus wrote:The group provides statistics to refute those of the government,

Could you please cite it?

reporting that since the country's ban, assaults involving guns have risen 28 percent

Err, assault in general has risen by 5% each year, so how 'gun assaults' have risen by 28% would be interesting to see.

gun murders have increased 19 percent

Homicides dropped a whopping 10% in 1999-2000 (as compared to 1998-1999) and a further 1.7% in 2000-20001 (compared to 1999-2000)

and home invasions have risen 21 percent.

14%.

Sournce: Australian Institute of Criminology

It would help a lot if you quoted/cited your source, or your source's source in order to compare.

So what? We ban firearms from kids as well here (unless supervised by an adult). We put child proof caps on medecines. We tell parents not to leave poisonous household cleaning products where small children can get to them. We're talking about violent crime here. You're talking about carelessness of children. It's a completely different subject.

We have an average of 340 - 360 homicides/manslaughters a year. What do you have? Yes our 'violent crime' is higher (per capita) than the states, but our homicide?

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-05-19 09:56am

Crown wrote:Err, assault in general has risen by 5% each year, so how 'gun assaults' have risen by 28% would be interesting to see.

Gun assults would be a fraction of the total assults and could rise 28% and still be within the total 5% rise. I haven't seen any figures, I'm talking general here.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-05-19 09:58am

BoredShirtless wrote:
Crown wrote:Err, assault in general has risen by 5% each year, so how 'gun assaults' have risen by 28% would be interesting to see.
Gun assults would be a fraction of the total assults and could rise 28% and still be within the total 5% rise. I haven't seen any figures, I'm talking general here.

Yeah, you're right. Although the obvious retort would be; well obviously we still have a few more guns to get rid of don't we!

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2004-05-19 12:25pm

Stofsk wrote:
ggs wrote:Also Australians are generally much more accepting to governmental regulation that americans or the like.
Another way to look at it, is Australians just don't give a shit about these 'laws' and do whatever the fuck they want. So what if swords are illegal? How the fuck are they going to stop people from acquiring them? How the fuck are they going to stop people like my brother from getting a katana and putting it on top of his TV set?

By doing what they do here in Tennessee. A guy owned an old MG-34, and someone at his church ratted him out to the Feds. They raided his house, got his guns, and stuck him in the federal pen for something like 20 years I believe.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-05-19 02:49pm

Ooh, big knives though.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2004-05-19 07:27pm

Perinquus wrote:..home invasions have risen 21 percent. ...

WTF does this have todo with crimes involving firearms?!

Can we say moving the goal posts?

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2004-05-20 01:35am

ggs wrote:
Perinquus wrote:..home invasions have risen 21 percent. ...
WTF does this have todo with crimes involving firearms?!

Can we say moving the goal posts?

Moving the goalposts my ass. It is completely relevant.

A. Some of those home invasions may involve illegally owned firearms in the hands of the home invaders - which gun control laws, no matter how strict, will not remove - and

B. legally owned firearms in the home may deter criminals from invading homes. In fact, there's abundant evidence that it does exactly that. Approximately 50% of burglaries in the UK are home invasions, just under 13% in the US are. When criminals have been interviewed in studies on the subject the number one reason they give for wanting to avoid burglarizing homes when the homeowner is in the house is fear of being shot. Criminals in the UK simply needn't fear this, so they are far more bold about kicking people's doors down and terrorizing them in their homes.

Whether or not gun control is an effective measure for reducing violent crime is an issue that is far more complicated than a simple direct correlation between the percentage of certain types of crimes that are committed by criminals using firearms. There is also the factor of the deterrent effect of an armed citizenry that may reduce violent crime. And again, there is abundant evidence that it does exactly that. 37 US states passed "shall issue" laws making it easier for law abiding citizens in good standing to obtain concealed weapons permits. Every one of them immediately experienced significant decreases in the rates of violent street crime.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2004-05-20 01:40am

ggs wrote:
Perinquus wrote:..home invasions have risen 21 percent. ...
WTF does this have todo with crimes involving firearms?!

Can we say moving the goal posts?

Really guy, the more I read this post, the more contemptuous I am of the utter lack of thought behind it. Laws are passed that significantly reduce the number of homes with firearms in them, and now, with the threat of being shot by a homeowner suddenly reduced to almost zero, criminals are suddenly far less timid about breaking into people's homes while they are inside them, and you really can't see any connection?

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-05-20 02:00am

Could you please give sources ?

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2004-05-20 05:28am

Thinkmarble wrote:Could you please give sources ?

For what?

Lower crime rates for states with "shall issue" ccw laws?

Concealed Carry and Crime

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns

Concealed Carry Reform

More Guns Less Crime

Or criminals being afraid of being shot?

As gun ownership declines, home invasions increase

I particlularly like the following quote from the above article:

American burglars usually make sure no victims are home. Canadian and British burglars, however, prefer their victims be home, so wallets and purses can be stolen, too.

Why Britain needs more guns

And in the follwing quote from the above article, you can see the figures I cited earlier:

You are now six times more likely to be mugged in London than New York. Why? Because as common law appreciated, not only does an armed individual have the ability to protect himself or herself but criminals are less likely to attack them. They help keep the peace. A study found American burglars fear armed home-owners more than the police. As a result burglaries are much rarer and only 13% occur when people are at home, in contrast to 53% in England.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-05-20 06:13am

I wait with anticipation for the banning of steak knives and the common veggie knife..cause bt your bottom dollar I can kill with either of those just as well as with a proper fighting knife. Just wait untill they ban axe's and tomohawks

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-05-20 06:27am

Stuart Mackey wrote:I wait with anticipation for the banning of steak knives and the common veggie knife..cause bt your bottom dollar I can kill with either of those just as well as with a proper fighting knife. Just wait untill they ban axe's and tomohawks

Goddamit Stuart, don't give the politicians any ideas! They have eyes and ears everywhere...

Yeah, our laws suck. What can I say? Meh. (That's an example of Apathy, Australia's Number One most used resource.)

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-05-20 06:34am

Stofsk wrote:Yeah, our laws suck. What can I say? Meh. (That's an example of Apathy, Australia's Number One most used resource.)

Oh well, you've still got Fosters.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-05-20 06:36am

Stofsk wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:I wait with anticipation for the banning of steak knives and the common veggie knife..cause bt your bottom dollar I can kill with either of those just as well as with a proper fighting knife. Just wait untill they ban axe's and tomohawks
Goddamit Stuart, don't give the politicians any ideas! They have eyes and ears everywhere...

Yeah, our laws suck. What can I say? Meh. (That's an example of Apathy, Australia's Number One most used resource.)

lol, one thing that bothers me with arms control stuff is the amount of outright lies and distortions that go on. NZ's anti gun nuts want to ban everything esp assult weapons despite the fact {as shown by the police and NZ criminal stats} that crims prefer sawn off shotties and assults are almost never used in criminal activities.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-05-20 06:38am

Galvatron wrote:
Stofsk wrote:Yeah, our laws suck. What can I say? Meh. (That's an example of Apathy, Australia's Number One most used resource.)
Oh well, you've still got Fosters.

Gah..that would drive people to commit crime

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-05-20 06:39am

What the hell is an "assault" weapon, anyway? When you commit assault with a weapon? Just another euphemism devised by boring politicians to make themselves look clever.

It's a shame Martin Bryant decided to go on a rampage way back when.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-05-20 06:43am

Stofsk wrote:What the hell is an "assault" weapon, anyway? When you commit assault with a weapon? Just another euphemism devised by boring politicians to make themselves look clever.

its used to distiguish automatic weapons from slower fed weapons. I dsuspect the term goes back a few decades.

It's a shame Martin Bryant decided to go on a rampage way back when.

Yep..gave the anti-gun nuts the very chance they were holding out for.