Sometimes I'm ashamed to call myself right wing

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Sometimes I'm ashamed to call myself right wing

Post by Glocksman »

because of bullshit like this
Bill Nevins, a New Mexico high school teacher and personal friend, was fired last year and classes in poetry and the poetry club at Rio Rancho High School were permanently terminated. It had nothing to do with obscenity, but it had everything to do with extremist politics.

The "Slam Team" was a group of teenage poets who asked Nevins to serve as faculty adviser to their club. The teens, mostly shy youngsters, were taught to read their poetry aloud and before audiences. Rio Rancho High School gave the Slam Team access to the school's closed-circuit television once a week and the poets thrived.

In March 2003, a teenage girl named Courtney presented one of her poems before an audience at Barnes & Noble bookstore in Albuquerque, then read the poem live on the school's closed-circuit television channel.

A school military liaison and the high school principal accused the girl of being "un-American" because she criticized the war in Iraq and the Bush administration's failure to give substance to its "No child left behind" education policy.

The girl's mother, also a teacher, was ordered by the principal to destroy the child's poetry. The mother refused and may lose her job.

Bill Nevins was suspended for not censoring the poetry of his students. Remember, there is no obscenity to be found in any of the poetry. He was later fired by the principal.

After firing Nevins and terminating the teaching and reading of poetry in the school, the principal and the military liaison read a poem of their own as they raised the flag outside the school. When the principal had the flag at full staff, he applauded the action he'd taken in concert with the military liaison.

Then to all students and faculty who did not share his political opinions, the principal shouted: "Shut your faces." What a wonderful lesson he gave those 3,000 students at the largest public high school in New Mexico. In his mind, only certain opinions are to be allowed.

But more was to come. Posters done by art students were ordered torn down, even though none was termed obscene. Some were satirical, implicating a national policy that had led us into war. Art teachers who refused to rip down the posters on display in their classrooms were not given contracts to return to the school in this current school year.

The message is plain. Critical thinking, questioning of public policies and freedom of speech are not to be allowed to anyone who does not share the thinking of the school principal.

The teachers union has been joined in a legal action against the school by the National Writers Union, headquartered in New York City. NWU's at-large representative Samantha Clark lives and works in Albuquerque.








The American Civil Liberties Union has become the legal arm of the lawsuit pending in federal court.

Meanwhile, Nevins applied for a teaching post in another school and was offered the job but he can't go to work until Rio Rancho's principal sends the new school Nevins' credentials. The principal has refused to do so, and that adds yet another issue to the lawsuit, which is awaiting a trial date.

While students are denied poetry readings, poetry clubs and classes in poetry, Nevins works elsewhere and writes his own poetry.

Writers and editors who have spent years translating essays, films, poems, scientific articles and books by Iranian, North Korean and Sudanese authors have been warned not to do so by the U.S. Treasury Department under penalty of fine and imprisonment. Publishers and film producers are not allowed to edit works authored by writers in those nations. The Bush administration contends doing so has the effect of trading with the enemy, despite a 1988 law that exempts published materials from sanction under trade rules.

Robert Bovenschulte, president of the American Chemical Society, is challenging the rule interpretation by violating it to edit into English several scientific papers from Iran.

Are book burnings next?
Asshats like this have more in common with the people they condemn than they care to admit.

The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler is pretty outspoken on this incident

Link

I often rail against the ridiculous accusations of liberal asshats preaching all over every conceivable media outlet about how "their dissent is being squished", and for a good reason too. If we really WERE a "fascist state", the fools would be preaching to a frozen latrine in northern Alaska. If they were lucky.

And then utter shit like this comes along and throws me into a spitting, howling rage.

A kid writes an anti-war poem. OK, so the poetry may suck, depending on where you stand and your ideas about proper use of meter and metaphor, but that's irrelevant to this issue. The school that she attends doesn't agree with her poetry, so what does it do?

Well, in a FREE society, the only proper answer is: NOTHING. I don't give a shit how stupid, wrong or just plain ignorant the kid's poem is, she has a G-d given right to write it and mean it.

But not at THIS school. Oh no. Turns out that the principal learned his lessons REAL well when he studied fascism. Learned how to implement it, that is.
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Post by Galvatron »

Sometimes I'm ashamed to call myself right wing
Well, it's a start. Wouldn't you rather be a level-headed, critical-thinking moderate than a member of any "wing" anyway?

As for this fuckhead principal, it doesn't surprise me. My dad was a public school teacher for over 30 years and the stories he'd tell me about the various principals he had to deal with just boggled the human mind.

He's retired now, but just today he told me that the last principal he worked for was cited for parking in the handicapped zone in the school parking lot, and he had the audacity to throw a tantrum at the cop who gave him the ticket. Fucking moron. Apparently it was one of the teachers who called the police.
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Post by Stuart Mackey »

I have said it befor, and I will say it again. America could never go communist, but there is every chance that they could go fascist.
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"

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Post by Spyder »

Stuart Mackey wrote:I have said it befor, and I will say it again. America could never go communist, but there is every chance that they could go fascist.
I have this image of Bush and Cheyney in the back seat of the car calling out "Are we there yet?" with Rumsfeld at the wheel.
:D
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Post by Lord Sander »

Wait, a military liaison, at a public high school?
What?
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Post by Galvatron »

Lord Sander wrote:Wait, a military liaison, at a public high school?
What?
ROTC instructor maybe?
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Post by Stuart Mackey »

Spyder wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:I have said it befor, and I will say it again. America could never go communist, but there is every chance that they could go fascist.
I have this image of Bush and Cheyney in the back seat of the car calling out "Are we there yet?" with Rumsfeld at the wheel.
I can imagine Davis Lowe doing the cartoons :D that way you get stuff like this
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Replace Hitler with Bush and Spinleless Leaders of Democracy with "America"
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Post by The Wookiee »

F*ck censorship.
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Post by Stuart Mackey »

The Wookiee wrote:F*ck censorship.
No no, my dear Wookiee, f**k the **** in the ****** ********* who let it happen.
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"

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Post by Vympel »

Stuart Mackey wrote:I have said it befor, and I will say it again. America could never go communist, but there is every chance that they could go fascist.
Heh- let's infuriate some people with some Chomsky goodness:
"You say you're an anarchist. Maybe you shouldn't take any benefits from the state?"

"That view is published, repeatedly. For example, I remember a book by Norman Podhoretz, some right-wing columnist, in which he accused academics in the peace movement of being ingrates because we were working against the government, but we were getting grants from the government. That reflects an extremely interesting conception of the state, in fact a fascist conception of the state. It says the state is your master, and if the state does something for you, you have to be nice to them. That's the underlying principle. So the state runs you, you're its slave... Notice how exactly opposite that is to democratic theory. According to democratic theory, you're the master, the state is your servant. The state doesn't give you a grant, the population is
giving you a grant. The state's just an instrument. But the concept of democracy is so remote from our conception that we very often tend to fall into straight fascist ideas like that, that the state is some kind of benevolent uncle, ... it's not your representative, and of course it's true, but it's not supposed to be; and therefore if your benevolent uncle happens to give you a piece of candy, it's not nice not to be nice to him back. But it's a strictly fascist conception. That's one of the reasons why fascism would be so easy to institute in the United States. It's deeply rooted in everybody's mind already."
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Post by Stuart Mackey »

Vympel wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:I have said it befor, and I will say it again. America could never go communist, but there is every chance that they could go fascist.
Heh- let's infuriate some people with some Chomsky goodness:
"You say you're an anarchist. Maybe you shouldn't take any benefits from the state?"

"That view is published, repeatedly. For example, I remember a book by Norman Podhoretz, some right-wing columnist, in which he accused academics in the peace movement of being ingrates because we were working against the government, but we were getting grants from the government. That reflects an extremely interesting conception of the state, in fact a fascist conception of the state. It says the state is your master, and if the state does something for you, you have to be nice to them. That's the underlying principle. So the state runs you, you're its slave... Notice how exactly opposite that is to democratic theory. According to democratic theory, you're the master, the state is your servant. The state doesn't give you a grant, the population is
giving you a grant. The state's just an instrument. But the concept of democracy is so remote from our conception that we very often tend to fall into straight fascist ideas like that, that the state is some kind of benevolent uncle, ... it's not your representative, and of course it's true, but it's not supposed to be; and therefore if your benevolent uncle happens to give you a piece of candy, it's not nice not to be nice to him back. But it's a strictly fascist conception. That's one of the reasons why fascism would be so easy to institute in the United States. It's deeply rooted in everybody's mind already."
:D :lol: Not to mentioned practiced every once in a while.
McArthism didnt quite get there, mayby the supporters of a beefed up Patriot act wont either..but hey, third times the charm, right?
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Post by Durandal »

The left has "political correctness." Now the right has "patriotic correctness." The latter has far more damaging potential.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

maybe someone should teach this principle that he is the one that is anti-american... seeing as he hates the constitution.
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Post by Crown »

Vympel wrote:<snip>
Heh- let's infuriate some people with some Chomsky goodness:

<snip>
Been visiting Chomsky.info have we? Good site. :D
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Post by Glocksman »

Stuart Mackey wrote:I have said it befor, and I will say it again. America could never go communist, but there is every chance that they could go fascist.
Two sides of the same coin.

Both fascism and communism are just boob bait for the mob to swallow in order to make them compliant to their masters.

Certainly in practice, Communism is responsible for just as much, if not more, misery and death as any brand of Fascism ever practiced.
Well, it's a start. Wouldn't you rather be a level-headed, critical-thinking moderate than a member of any "wing" anyway?
Perhaps 'libertarian right winger' would be a better description.

I tend to be libertarian on social issues (with the sole exceptions of abortion and the death penalty), fisccally conservative, and 'mind our own business' on foreign policy.

Anyway, no matter how much I think that girl's head is full of mush, she has the absolute right to express her opinion in the manner she did.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Vympel wrote:[snip]
Chomsky's being a psychoanalytical dumbass.

Its quite simple: if you hold the political and ethical position that no one should recieve benefits from the state, then it does make you a hypocrite to assist yourself with said benefit.

It has nothing to do with somesort of implied "debt" to the government for helping you out.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Whoa whoa whoa... so she spoke her mind and read a poem that was critical of President Bush and they are ordering her parents to destroy her poetry (at the risk of firing the mother), suspending and firing the teacher who didn't censor her in the first place, and tried to shout down understandable dissent. I'm sorry, when did New Mexico cease to become part of the Union and thus didn't get the First Amendment? This wasn't even on school grounds where administrators are legally allowed to such up students, this was at a freakin' Barnes and Nobles! That's the most complete bullshit I've ever heard.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Stuart Mackey wrote: :D :lol: Not to mentioned practiced every once in a while.
McArthism didnt quite get there, mayby the supporters of a beefed up Patriot act wont either..but hey, third times the charm, right?
We survived domestic military tribunals, the Alien and Sedition Acts, the outright suspension of habeas corpus and the jailing of anti-war newspaper editors, reconcentration for Filipinos, internment for Japanese-Americans, and McArthyism.

I think the U.S. republic has some resilency. We'll overcome USA PATRIOT.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Gil Hamilton wrote:Whoa whoa whoa... so she spoke her mind and read a poem that was critical of President Bush and they are ordering her parents to destroy her poetry (at the risk of firing the mother), suspending and firing the teacher who didn't censor her in the first place, and tried to shout down understandable dissent. I'm sorry, when did New Mexico cease to become part of the Union and thus didn't get the First Amendment? This wasn't even on school grounds where administrators are legally allowed to such up students, this was at a freakin' Barnes and Nobles! That's the most complete bullshit I've ever heard.
Well this isn't the State's fault, just some lone asshat. He overstepped his bounds legally, and I'm sure this ACLU lawsuit will slap him down for it.
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Post by Rogue 9 »

Wow. This is a first. I'm actually coming down on the ACLU's side. :shock:
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Post by Darth Wong »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Vympel wrote:[snip]
Chomsky's being a psychoanalytical dumbass.

Its quite simple: if you hold the political and ethical position that no one should recieve benefits from the state, then it does make you a hypocrite to assist yourself with said benefit.

It has nothing to do with somesort of implied "debt" to the government for helping you out.
Don't be a dumb-ass. There is nothing hypocritical about criticizing the government while receiving benefits from it, particularly when (as is true in the vast majority of cases) those benefits are merely a portion of your tax dollars coming back to you.

Even if someone thinks a government program should not exist, he has already helped pay for it, so why shouldn't he take advantage of it? How does it make his argument hypocritical?
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Couldn't the same logic be applied to anyone of a government defined "minority" status and apply for racist assistance in admissions and scholarships who opposed affirmative action? That they should accept the money anyway?

I know they did already help pay for it, but if they're arguing for the better system, shouldn't they take the moral high ground in their fight and not accept aid that their entire politics opposes?
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Post by Joe »

Darth Wong wrote:snip
Did you even read the passage? It's clear Chomsky is talking about anarchists in specific, not the much broader category of people who are critical of the government.

IP is correct; if you are an anarchist and you seriously believe the government ought not exist, you have no business receiving benefits from it.
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Post by Durandal »

Joe wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:snip
Did you even read the passage? It's clear Chomsky is talking about anarchists in specific, not the much broader category of people who are critical of the government.

IP is correct; if you are an anarchist and you seriously believe the government ought not exist, you have no business receiving benefits from it.
That's what they believe, so to minimize the total amount of money they lose to the government, they accept the benefits that they've paid for.
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