I might have to vote for John Kerry...

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-05-21 03:56pm

...if he's serious about this plan of his.

Seriously, I think this is a great idea, and if I think he's serious about making it happen and not pleading to the masses, he's 66% likely to have my vote. By comparrison that's up from 10% yesterday. What do y'all think about the plan?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-05-21 04:20pm

Actually, a volunteer requirement is a good idea for high schools, but alot of school, particular city public schools, would be very much against it. Alot of their students who they barely graduate as it is would have ALOT more failures to graduate because the students don't care enough to do a community service requirement. Large amount of failures means putting their budget at risk, which is something that school districts will fight tooth and nail.

Plus, I like the idea of college money for community service. That would be nice.

FettKyle · Post by **FettKyle** » 2004-05-21 04:23pm

I did not read it throughly but of course being a high school student and required to do community service to graduate is just another excuse for slave labor. Although if the programs are to have teachers invovled I will be all for it. Kerry has just gone from a ABBB to a viable canidate in my eyes. It seems really nice to me about the college although it would be nice if there is a required type of service.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-05-21 04:25pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:Plus, I like the idea of college money for community service. That would be nice.

Think so? After what happened when Europe from their socialized school system, I have serious doubts about the feasability and effectiveness of this program.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-05-21 04:27pm

I think it shouldn't be mandatory, though. My older brother got a full-ride scholarship out of highschool, and didn't need the 2 years. Likewise well-off kids might not want the money. Make it voluntary.

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2004-05-21 04:28pm

Forced Service to the state. I do not like the idea at all.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-05-21 04:30pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I think it shouldn't be mandatory, though. My older brother got a full-ride scholarship out of highschool, and didn't need the 2 years. Likewise well-off kids might not want the money. Make it voluntary.

That's kind of the point, though. This is really a redistrution force within the economy. Kerry's trying to make it so that even the well-off kids need to volunteer after HS for a year. I think a better plan would be to just say that people need to take a year and volunteer after they get out of school. That way, HS dropouts still need to do the time, and a person who's college-educated can volunteer at higher and potentially more valuable positions than someone who's just out of HS. Even then, I have problems with his incentive plan of giving money for college for volunteer service, since I really think that's moving towards a failed socialized higher-education system.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-05-21 04:31pm

FettKyle wrote:I did not read it throughly but of course being a high school student and required to do community service to graduate is just another excuse for slave labor. Although if the programs are to have teachers invovled I will be all for it. Kerry has just gone from a ABBB to a viable canidate in my eyes. It seems really nice to me about the college although it would be nice if there is a required type of service.

The high school I eventually graduated from had a community service requirement, as do alot of private schools (and a few public schools, I've heard). I don't see how it's slave labor.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-05-21 04:33pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Think so? After what happened when Europe from their socialized school system, I have serious doubts about the feasability and effectiveness of this program.

It doesn't have to be like their school system. Remember, America already has programs where you do service to the state and the government gives you money for college. All branches of the US Military do this, but there is also AmeriCorp and PeaceCorp. Such a program could be like AmeriCorp on steroids.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-05-21 04:34pm

Kerry believes that knowledge of the rights and responsibilities of citizenship - including the duty to serve your community - are as important to American adults as knowing how to read and do math.

Oh, sure, picking up trash on the street, cleaning up shit after patients in a hospital, or, in my case, baby-sitting a bunch of 11 yr olds (those who's spent time in a company of an yr old will undestand). It's a nice idea on paper, but its a heap of bullshit, and, as FettKyle said, a way to gain slave labor.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-05-21 04:35pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:
FettKyle wrote:I did not read it throughly but of course being a high school student and required to do community service to graduate is just another excuse for slave labor. Although if the programs are to have teachers invovled I will be all for it. Kerry has just gone from a ABBB to a viable canidate in my eyes. It seems really nice to me about the college although it would be nice if there is a required type of service.
The high school I eventually graduated from had a community service requirement, as do alot of private schools (and a few public schools, I've heard). I don't see how it's slave labor.

You do different things for different communities.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-05-21 04:36pm

Master of Ossus wrote: Think so? After what happened when Europe from their socialized school system, I have serious doubts about the feasability and effectiveness of this program.

Could you explain what you mean with "socialized school system" ?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-05-21 04:38pm

I fail to see how it's slave labor. I got all my service hours at the Carnegie Science Center as a volunteer. It's not like they put a collar on the lot of us and had us picking up rubbish on the sides of highways.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-05-21 04:42pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:I fail to see how it's slave labor. I got all my service hours at the Carnegie Science Center as a volunteer. It's not like they put a collar on the lot of us and had us picking up rubbish on the sides of highways.

See, in NYC here, you get a choice of hospitals, nursing homes, and stuff like that. Yes, there are some good places to serve, like the Aquarium in Brooklyn, or the Bronx Zoo, but last I checked, positions are very limited and its almost impossible to get in.

And, Gil, its slave labor because you don't get paid for it.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-05-21 04:43pm

I didn't know volunteering made you a slave. That's an interesting take you have on volunteers.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-21 04:48pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Seriously, I think this is a great idea, and if I think he's serious about making it happen and not pleading to the masses, he's 66% likely to have my vote. By comparrison that's up from 10% yesterday. What do y'all think about the plan?

DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE FUCKING KERRY DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE

We have this BULLLLLLLLLLSHIT in Maryland. To graduate you have to have x community service hours...

John Fucking Kerry can take this "brilliant" idea of his and shove it up
his fucking ass!

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-05-21 04:49pm

Howedar wrote:I didn't know volunteering made you a slave. That's an interesting take you have on volunteers.

If they're required to do it, that's not exactly volunteering, is it?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

FettKyle · Post by **FettKyle** » 2004-05-21 04:50pm

That's my whole point about community service. If you don't have a choice but to work at places you don't want too then hell it's slave labor. Lucky me I got most of mine done by volenteering at space camp to help kids out and learn about Nasa. That tickled my fancy but still. However the college Idea does look nice to me it's just that it must be something that helps you learn and return to the community. Like free interns for local politics or meals on wheels. Now that is something nice to do for 2 years not record scores for Junoir golfers here in Carmel...

But that is just my opinion.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-05-21 04:52pm

fgalkin wrote:If they're required to do it, that's not exactly volunteering, is it?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Schools require students to do alot of things to graduate. I suppose the Phys Ed requirement is slave labor too? Maybe making students pass math is slave labor.

Psycho Smiley · Post by **Psycho Smiley** » 2004-05-21 04:54pm

Howedar wrote:I didn't know volunteering made you a slave. That's an interesting take you have on volunteers.

Ah, but this isn't true volunteering. In Ontario, it's "do 30 hours of voluntary community service or you don't graduate from high school." Not my definition of voluntary.

dictionary.com wrote:1) Done or undertaken of one's own free will: a voluntary decision to leave the job.
2)Acting or done willingly and without constraint or expectation of reward: a voluntary hostage; voluntary community work.
3)Normally controlled by or subject to individual volition: voluntary muscle contractions.
4)Capable of making choices; having the faculty of will.
5)Supported by contributions or charitable donations rather than by government appropriations: voluntary hospitals.
6)Law.
a)Without legal obligation or consideration: a voluntary conveyance of property.
b)Done deliberately; intentional: voluntary manslaughter.

Not dictionary.com's, either.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2004-05-21 04:54pm

Howedar wrote:I didn't know volunteering made you a slave. That's an interesting take you have on volunteers.

It's not volunteering when it's mandatory, now is it?

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-05-21 05:01pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:
fgalkin wrote:If they're required to do it, that's not exactly volunteering, is it?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Schools require students to do alot of things to graduate. I suppose the Phys Ed requirement is slave labor too? Maybe making students pass math is slave labor.

Making students pass courses is not slave labor, since they are actually learning new stuff. General Phys Ed classes are useless, IMO (but specialized classes, that teach you a specific sport are not).

Mandatory community service is slave labor because they are requiring students to perform jobs for free, which other people get paid to do. That qulifies as slave labor in my book.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-05-21 05:02pm

fgalkin wrote:And, Gil, its slave labor because you don't get paid for it.

Next time I'll fucking spell it out for you in twenty foot high red letters. Volunteers don't get paid either.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-05-21 05:02pm

Master of Ossus wrote:That's kind of the point, though. This is really a redistrution force within the economy. Kerry's trying to make it so that even the well-off kids need to volunteer after HS for a year.

It didn't say that. It just said he felt a flexible (according to local/state needs) volunteer requirement should be a high school graduation requirement.

The two-years service for tuition is voluntary thing. Oh, and does he mean in the military two years service? I don't think the Army wants mere two-year volunteers.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-05-21 05:06pm

Howedar wrote:
fgalkin wrote:And, Gil, its slave labor because you don't get paid for it.
Next time I'll fucking spell it out for you in twenty foot high red letters. Volunteers don't get paid either.

Let me spell it out for you, too. Volunteers do it voluntarily.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

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I might have to vote for John Kerry...

I might have to vote for John Kerry...

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