Foreign Office seeks to restrain US

[TheDarkling]

Report

If this document is legit then I am happy to see that we are finally trying to get at least some control over where Iraq is heading, I especially like the part where we lay out how we wish to try and use the other nations to tie the US down.

[MKSheppard]

I especially like the part where we lay out how we wish to try and use the other nations to tie the US down.

Good luck, there. When you're the only country in the world
with over a dozen Carrier Battlegroups, each packing more aircraft
than most of the world's air forces...you go where you want and do
what you want.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I especially like the part where we lay out how we wish to try and use the other nations to tie the US down.

Good luck, there. When you're the only country in the world
with over a dozen Carrier Battlegroups, each packing more aircraft
than most of the world's air forces...you go where you want and do
what you want.

You lose allies fast too. The US is nowhere near the power it once was and even if it were, it can't keep this sort of thing up. When you start getting your closest ally concerned, things are looking to turn interesting.

On that note, the Foreign Office scares me anyway.

[TheDarkling]

Good luck, there. When you're the only country in the world
with over a dozen Carrier Battlegroups, each packing more aircraft
than most of the world's air forces...you go where you want and do
what you want.

Until the EU threatens sanctions on key elections states at which point you fall to your knees and do as you are told.

In truth, when your allies start trying to use the influence of other nations to push you in a certain direction it tells you two things, first that those allies have grave concerns and second that they have realised you don't really care what they think and that other nations think along better lines. Maybe the US actions of Iraq will be instructive to whoever is running the UK the next time you guys want us to partake in an adventure.

[Sharp-kun]

On that note, the Foreign Office scares me anyway.

I have a cousin who works there. The fact that one night he was left in charge of something scared me.

[Mr Bean]

Until the EU threatens sanctions on key elections states at which point you fall to your knees and do as you are told.

At which point we simply move our business to our glorius chineese brethern who are more than happy to make up the short fall
And/Or we just start buying from the French more than normal because they have a marked histroy of seeing Ecenomic Sanctions as nothing more than "Suggestions"

[MKSheppard]

And/Or we just start buying from the French more than normal because they have a marked histroy of seeing Ecenomic Sanctions as nothing more than "Suggestions"

And/or we just re-establish Strategic Air Command

[Gil Hamilton]

And/Or we just start buying from the French more than normal because they have a marked histroy of seeing Ecenomic Sanctions as nothing more than "Suggestions"

That would be ironic... after a few years of calling them traitors to freedom and boycotting their products, et cetera, going "We love you, France!"

[Jeremy]

Shep, if you were a woman, I would be in love.

[Lord Poe]

The memo is critical of the American military approach. It says: "Heavy handed US military tactics in Falluja and Najaf some weeks ago have fuelled both Sunni and Shi'ite opposition to the coalition, and lost us much public support inside Iraq.

What?? So Sunni and Shiite opposition WASN"T much of a factor before the move on Falluja?

"If we go down either route we should ensure that we use it to maximise our influence over American military decisions, and that we can prevent US action, either at the strategic or operational levels, which would jeopardise our objectives," it says.

Sounds like the British have their own agenda, which it will implement by subverting anything the US is doing. Nice ally.

[Darth Wong]

The memo is critical of the American military approach. It says: "Heavy handed US military tactics in Falluja and Najaf some weeks ago have fuelled both Sunni and Shi'ite opposition to the coalition, and lost us much public support inside Iraq.

What?? So Sunni and Shiite opposition WASN"T much of a factor before the move on Falluja?

Actually, there was a period shortly after the invasion where the US enjoyed fairly high public support in Iraq. That support has been eroding.

[TheDarkling]

At which point we simply move our business to our glorius chineese brethern who are more than happy to make up the short fall
And/Or we just start buying from the French more than normal because they have a marked histroy of seeing Ecenomic Sanctions as nothing more than "Suggestions"

The EU went the route of sanctions over the steel tariffs, the US folded so what actually did happen stands in stark contrast to what you think would happen.

[Lord Poe]

Actually, there was a period shortly after the invasion where the US enjoyed fairly high public support in Iraq. That support has been eroding.

Yes, but not after the raid on Falluja, which is what this memo seems to be suggesting.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Sounds like the British have their own agenda, which it will implement by subverting anything the US is doing. Nice ally.

Given what the US has done in the past, it's simply like father like sun.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Sounds like the British have their own agenda, which it will implement by subverting anything the US is doing. Nice ally.

Given what the US has done in the past, it's simply like father like sun.

Only, of course, when I said "sun", I really meant "son".

I need sleep.

[TheDarkling]

Sounds like the British have their own agenda, which it will implement by subverting anything the US is doing. Nice ally.

Yes, that agenda involves getting Iraq to be a prosperous and stable nation, the fact that we must subvert the US to achieve that says more about the US's actions than our loyalty.

[Lord Poe]

Yes, that agenda involves getting Iraq to be a prosperous and stable nation, the fact that we must subvert the US to achieve that says more about the US's actions than our loyalty.

Oh DOES it now?

[Darth Wong]

Actually, there was a period shortly after the invasion where the US enjoyed fairly high public support in Iraq. That support has been eroding.

Yes, but not after the raid on Falluja, which is what this memo seems to be suggesting.

I believe the portion of the memo you refer to is this one:

Heavy handed US military tactics in Falluja and Najaf some weeks ago have fuelled both Sunni and Shi'ite opposition to the coalition, and lost us much public support inside Iraq.

The US have learnt lessons from this and are generally proceeding more cautiously.

I can't see anything in that excerpt which is unreasonable. It does not suggest there was no Sunni and Shiite opposition to the US prior to Fallujah or that it "wasn't much of a factor", as you put it. It only claims that heavy-handed American tactics during the Fallujah and Najaf operations caused Iraq support for the Americans to drop even further, which is hardly a good thing.

[Ma Deuce]

Until the EU threatens sanctions on key elections states at which point you fall to your knees and do as you are told.

Riiiiiight...

[Elfdart]

I think the British are pissing in the wind here. They've been complaining about heavy-handed tactics by the US Army for months. Those complaints have been dumped in File 13. Shortly after the invasion, the British were proud of the fact that their soldiers were able to walk about in Basra without their armor vests because the locals didn't consider them the enemy. Then the US Army went out of its way to manhandle Iraqi civilians and the honeymoon was over. Now the British are getting picked off, too.

They're not the only ones put off by the Army's brutish tactics. The Marines were sent to Falluja to replace the Army and to try less thuggish methods. But the cat was out of the bag. Word was already out regarding torture at Abu Ghraib, mercenaries were prowling the city, and C-130 gunships had torn the city a new one. I'm pretty disgusted that a single Marine had to die to avenge the deaths of fucking mercenaries.

It's too late to close that barn door.

[Sea Skimmer]

They're not the only ones put off by the Army's brutish tactics. The Marines were sent to Falluja to replace the Army and to try less thuggish methods. But the cat was out of the bag.

Acutally while the Marines claimed they'd be using less aggressive tactic's they've acutally proved far less popular then the Army units they replaced, that was becoming a problem even before the current Falluja and Najaf battles began.