Nazi Remark Raised In Israel Cabinet Meeting

[Aaron]

CBC

JERUSALEM - An Israeli cabinet minister says the army's demolition of Palestinian homes reminds him of how the Nazis treated his family during the Second World War.

Justice Minister Yosef Lapid is calling for a halt to the policy of destroying homes along a Gaza Strip corridor that Israel says contains tunnels used to smuggle weapons.
Officials say his remarks sparked outrage at the weekly cabinet meeting in Jerusalem.

The ministers were discussing Israel's demolition of dozens homes in the Rafah refugee camp along the Gaza-Egypt border.

Lapid was quoted as saying a picture of an old Palestinian woman on the rubble of her destroyed home reminded him of his grandmother during the Holocaust.

The statement outraged hardline Likud Party ministers. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said such comments add "oil to the fire of incitement."

Lapid said he wasn't comparing Israel to the Nazis, but added there "is no forgiveness for people who treat an old woman in this way."

The bulldozing has left more than 1,000 Palestinians homeless. Israeli troops pulled out from some parts of Gaza on Friday, repositioning themselves in other parts of the camp.

The military says the operation to root out militants and tunnels isn't over. It also wants to expand a patrol road between the camp and the Egyptian border to make it harder for weapons to be smuggled in.

The expansion is likely to require the demolition of more houses. But officials say other options are being explored that would require the demolition of as few homes as possible.

Maybe this will help the Israeli's come to the conclusion that their behavior really is no better than the Nazi's in WWII.

[Faram]

I hope so.

But as long as Big Brother USA is a yesman for Israel nothing mutch will really change.

[sketerpot]

I hope so.

But as long as Big Brother USA is a yesman for Israel nothing mutch will really change.

This time, the US displayed almost unprecedented outrage with Israel by not vetoing the UN Security Council's rebuke. I know that's pretty pathetic outrage, but it's happened twice in a relatively short period of time. When Israel brought out the tanks and helicopters to shoot at Palesinean protestors, the US allowed the UN Security Council to scold them. That's twice that the US has stood still as their pet Holy Land got verbally slapped on the wrist by someone else. Could US support of Israel be waning?

I know that most European countries are not wild about the latest news. Could they have any influence, or is the US so big that it can afford to look on Europe like ants beneath its boots?

Head of the Foreign Ministry European department Ran Kuriel informed Hennessy last Thursday that Israel was "sickened" by Irish Foreign Minister Brian Cowen's statements about the IDF's firing on protesters in Rafah.

Speaking for the EU, Cowen sharply condemned Israel for the attack, calling it "a reckless disregard for human life."

It looks like Ireland (or at least a prominent Irish politician, who I would expect to have a good grasp of public opinion) can see firing on crowds of protestors with tanks and helicopters as reckless and generally unpleasant. I see articles about the rising problem of anti-Semitism in France in which various French politicians are quoted condemning various Israeli actions, so France is probably not too friendly towards Israel. European countries are small, but are they really so powerless that Israel can do anything and get away with it as long as they have the unwavering support of the US? And could that US support waver to any significant degree?

Or is the situation just hopeless? I'd hate to see a large part of the middle east trampled by a berserk PR department. An army, sure, I can see that. The middle east gets fucked over by armies all the time. But a friggin' PR department? Here are a few good ones from the superhuman propaganda mill:

A senior diplomatic source said yesterday that Ireland is regarded as having the most radical anti-Israel positions in the EU, whose statements regarding Israel have been sharper since Ireland became its president in January.

"They are undermining Israel's moral position and its legitimacy as an enlightened state," the source said.

NEW YORK -- Thousands of people marched up Fifth Avenue in the annual Salute to Israel parade on Sunday, many hoisting signs celebrating this year's theme of tourism to the Jewish state.

"There's a message here, and the message is that Israel is constantly under attack, as are freedom-loving peoples around the world," Mayor Michael Bloomberg said.

[Aaron]

I hope so.

But as long as Big Brother USA is a yesman for Israel nothing mutch will really change.

I've never understood why the USA has such a hard-on for Israel. Although I've always supported them myself, their recent actions have made me change my opinion of Israel. Now I regard them as being little better than the Nazi's.

[Aaron]

A senior diplomatic source said yesterday that Ireland is regarded as having the most radical anti-Israel positions in the EU, whose statements regarding Israel have been sharper since Ireland became its president in January.

"They are undermining Israel's moral position and its legitimacy as an enlightened state," the source said.

An enlightened state? How can a state consider itself enlightened when it forcably removes it's citizens from their homes, and constantly fires on unarmed civilians?

[fgalkin]

A senior diplomatic source said yesterday that Ireland is regarded as having the most radical anti-Israel positions in the EU, whose statements regarding Israel have been sharper since Ireland became its president in January.

"They are undermining Israel's moral position and its legitimacy as an enlightened state," the source said.

An enlightened state? How can a state consider itself enlightened when it forcably removes it's citizens from their homes, and constantly fires on unarmed civilians?

Israel is an enlightened state in the way it treats its own citizens. How it treats everyone else, that's another matter.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[HemlockGrey]

"They are undermining Israel's moral position and its legitimacy as an enlightened state," the source said.

Oh, that's rich. I don't think there's a single enlightened state in the entire region.

[sketerpot]

An enlightened state? How can a state consider itself enlightened when it forcably removes it's citizens from their homes, and constantly fires on unarmed civilians?

First rule of propaganda: if you say something soon enough, often enough, and loud enough, it becomes true. (I don't know if this really is the first rule of propaganda, but you'll notice that I said it quickly, and loudly. If you still don't believe it, I'd be happy to say it again.)

This one has a line of semi-logic, so it'll stand up under cursory inspection. The US likes Israel, the US is great (God Bless America!), [Optional: Israel is the promised land, and therefore favored by God,] the US is enlightened and our leaders would never befriend an unenlightened state like the Taliban, so Israel must be an enlightened state.

Sure, this disregards the powerful influences of propaganda and stupidity, but that doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference.

[MKSheppard]

I've never understood why the USA has such a hard-on for Israel. Although I've always supported them myself, their recent actions have made me change my opinion of Israel. Now I regard them as being little better than the Nazi's.

Read: Arafat's War by Efraim Karsh. It draws on multiple Hebrew,
Arabic, and English sources to show the truth behind Yassir and his PLO;
they're a bunch of murdering scumfucks who never ever change their
colors. Did you know that the PLO has never amended it's constitution
to change the "kill all jews" part? They keep sending the amendments
from committee to committee in the PNC.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I've never understood why the USA has such a hard-on for Israel. Although I've always supported them myself, their recent actions have made me change my opinion of Israel. Now I regard them as being little better than the Nazi's.

Read: Arafat's War by Efraim Karsh. It draws on multiple Hebrew,
Arabic, and English sources to show the truth behind Yassir and his PLO;
they're a bunch of murdering scumfucks who never ever change their
colors. Did you know that the PLO has never amended it's constitution
to change the "kill all jews" part? They keep sending the amendments
from committee to committee in the PNC.

That doesn't exonerate Israel, it only damns both I and P to 'fucktarded trolling anti-logic dumbfuck' status...

[MKSheppard]

That doesn't exonerate Israel, it only damns both I and P to 'fucktarded trolling anti-logic dumbfuck' status...

That's just one paragraph or two out of the book. 250~ pages, with
every OTHER paragraph footnoted.

The section on PLO stuff in Jordan and then Lebanon is verrrrrry
interesting. Wherever Arafat goes, he fucks things up to an unholy
level.

[sketerpot]

I've never understood why the USA has such a hard-on for Israel. Although I've always supported them myself, their recent actions have made me change my opinion of Israel. Now I regard them as being little better than the Nazi's.

Read: Arafat's War by Efraim Karsh. It draws on multiple Hebrew,
Arabic, and English sources to show the truth behind Yassir and his PLO;
they're a bunch of murdering scumfucks who never ever change their
colors. Did you know that the PLO has never amended it's constitution
to change the "kill all jews" part? They keep sending the amendments
from committee to committee in the PNC.

What the hell does that have to do with Israel, or any of the other countries that Israel has found itself at odds with? Just because the PLO are "murdering scumfucks" doesn't mean that Israel is automatically good and worthy of support! Not ever international conflict is a battle between good and evil; it seems like more often both sides suck and millions of innocent bystanders get dragged along for the ride.

Palestine isn't the only country that the US support of Israel harms. There are other countries that Israel has been fighting off and on for decades, and no matter how much merdurous scumfuckery the PLO engages in, that says nothing about Jordan, Egypt, and whatever other independant non-Palestinean nations surround Israel.

[Andrew J.]

First rule of propaganda: if you say something soon enough, often enough, and loud enough, it becomes true.

That's actually known as the Theory of the Big Lie. If there was a list of rules for propaganda, though, either that or something about symbols, connotation, proximity and association would be at the top.

[Plekhanov]

That's twice that the US has stood still as their pet Holy Land got verbally slapped on the wrist by someone else. Could US support of Israel be waning?

It’s not waning it’s just that there is an upper limit on the level of atrocity the US is willing to publicly support.

but are they really so powerless that Israel can do anything and get away with it as long as they have the unwavering support of the US? And could that US support waver to any significant degree?

The EU doesn’t have anything close to the influence that the US has over Israel but if we withdrew Israel’s status as a preferential trade partner and stopped selling them weapons, I think that influence Israel to act with more restraint.

I’d like to go further and ban all EU trade with Israel and cut off all cultural and sporting ties until they either pull out of the occupied territories or give the Palestinians full citizenship. Israel’s location means it does a lot of trade with Europe and this would really hurt the economy. Sanctions do work as long as the population can influence the government, they worked against South Africa and I think they’d work against Israel. As soon as the income of the more moderate Israeli population was threatened they’d soon reign in the extremists.

Or is the situation just hopeless? I'd hate to see a large part of the middle east trampled by a berserk PR department. An army, sure, I can see that. The middle east gets fucked over by armies all the time. But a friggin' PR department? Here are a few good ones from the superhuman propaganda mill:

It’s only hopeless as long as Europe sits on its hand whilst Israel ethnically cleanses and massacres Palestinians at the cost of nothing more than harshly worded criticism.

[MKSheppard]

Palestine isn't the only country that the US support of Israel harms. There are other countries that Israel has been fighting off and on for decades, and no matter how much merdurous scumfuckery the PLO engages in, that says nothing about Jordan, Egypt, and whatever other independant non-Palestinean nations surround Israel.

Yet they were never able to defeat the eeeeeeeeevil joooooooows,
despite having the full backing of the USSR, to buy tanks on credit
with virtually unlimited cash lines, while Israel had to fight to buy even
the most obsolete tanks on the market.

[Mr Bean]

I've never understood why the USA has such a hard-on for Israel. Although I've always supported them myself, their recent actions have made me change my opinion of Israel. Now I regard them as being little better than the Nazi's.

I stoped support Isreal around ten years ago when the "Reprisals" for Suicide attacks became common place and morrover...
For some reason Isreal ALWAYS had a "Terrirost Base" Or "Camp" Or "Bad thing" that they sent in bombers or helos or something to blow it to shit and back after every single POL or other attack happened, and damn near every single time Arab newises(And sometimes European) reported that some building or other got blow the hell and before they could check they got shoved out of the area but they seen alot of folks hurt on the sidewalks or in nextdoor buildings or whatnot


And come four years later it was still the same but one new element, most of the c4 suprise folks were sons/brothers of the folks killed in an Isrealie reprisal attack for a POL attack

[sketerpot]

Palestine isn't the only country that the US support of Israel harms. There are other countries that Israel has been fighting off and on for decades, and no matter how much merdurous scumfuckery the PLO engages in, that says nothing about Jordan, Egypt, and whatever other independant non-Palestinean nations surround Israel.

Yet they were never able to defeat the eeeeeeeeevil joooooooows,
despite having the full backing of the USSR, to buy tanks on credit
with virtually unlimited cash lines, while Israel had to fight to buy even
the most obsolete tanks on the market.

Wow! Sounds like the Jews must be favored by God! I fail to see how this says anything more that "Israel is powerful". You seem to think that's enough to justify the US supporting Israel, and frankly I find that disturbing. I like explosions as much as anyone, but how does superior firepower impart moral superiority?

[Darth Wong]

Yet they were never able to defeat the eeeeeeeeevil joooooooows, despite having the full backing of the USSR, to buy tanks on credit with virtually unlimited cash lines, while Israel had to fight to buy even the most obsolete tanks on the market.

You're not seriously telling us that the Israels have historically sufferd from a military technological disadvantage compared to their Arab enemies, are you?

[Darth Wong]

CBC

JERUSALEM - An Israeli cabinet minister says the army's demolition of Palestinian homes reminds him of how the Nazis treated his family during the Second World War.

Why? All they want is "living space" ...

[MKSheppard]

You're not seriously telling us that the Israels have historically sufferd from a military technological disadvantage compared to their Arab enemies, are you?

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ ... /Shot.html

Within the scope of the Middle-East arms race, Israeli weaponry was always inferior in both qualitative and quantitative aspects. We acquired Sherman tanks and AMX-13 tanks (not really tanks but rather light tank destroyers), while the Arabs obtained, with no problems, new and modern tanks from both east and west. We were forced to be satisfied with "junk": old and inoperable tanks, second world war vintage Shermans, British Centurions and American M48's (Magach).

Not a single country agreed to sell new tanks to us. It is still not clear why some countries did allow us to occasionally buy new and modern means of battle, such as jet fighter planes, but persisted in their refusal to sell us new tanks.

Given the need, we were forced to learn the technologies of armor, in order to rehabilitate the obsolete metal hulks, which we had purchased through programs of rebuilding, regunning and engine replacements.

The race between ourselves and the Arabs now became a direct confrontation between new Western and Soviet MBT's fielded by the Arab armies and old, rebuilt and improvised tanks fielded by Israel.

In the 1960's the Arabs were about to obtain T-62 tanks from Soviet Russia. This was the most modern operational Main Battle Tank (MBT) of its time, equipped with a high-powered 115mm cannon. It. was clear that no improvisations or rejuvenation to tanks of the 1940s and 1950s would suffice to ensure the continued security, and indeed the existence, of the State of Israel.

At that time, in 1966, Britain came forward with a dramatically historic proposal. The British needed money in order to complete the development of their new tank of the future, the Chieftain, with its 120mm cannon. This tank was designed to be the strongest and most modern in the west. In view of their financial constraints they proposed a "package deal". According to this deal, we would buy hundreds of obsolete Centurion tanks. They, in exchange, would allow us to participate in the final stages of Chieftain development, would sell us Chieftains, and would help us build, in Israel, an assembly line for Chieftains. This was seen as an ideal solution to the unacceptable predictions regarding the middle-eastern armor balance from both quantitative and qualitative points of view.

Our cooperation with the British lasted for about three years. Two prototypes of the Chieftain tank were delivered to Israel. Israel invested heavily in the improvement and final development of the Chieftain in close cooperation with British officers and engineers, who worked with us in Israel.

However, Arab states intervened. They threatened Britain with sanctions, with pulling their monetary reserves out of British banks, and other actions. Demonstrations were held in Arab capitals and British embassies were attacked. In November 1969 Britain withdrew from its Chieftain deal with Israel.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

CBC

JERUSALEM - An Israeli cabinet minister says the army's demolition of Palestinian homes reminds him of how the Nazis treated his family during the Second World War.

Why? All they want is "living space" ...

Aka Lebensraum?

[Plekhanov]

snip

So what, this thread is about a current Israeli Cabinet Minister saying that Israeli behaviour in the occupied territories NOW reminds him of what the Nazi’s did to his grandmother.

The relative strengths of Israeli and Arab armour 40 years ago are irrelevant, as is Arafat’s record of corruption and general unpleasantness.

A crowd of demonstrators was shot at on Thursday by a present day Israeli tank, 1000s of Palestinians were made homeless this week by the present day Israeli army that is the issue. Will you please stop trying to derail the discussion.

[MKSheppard]

The relative strengths of Israeli and Arab armour 40 years ago are irrelevant, as is Arafat’s record of corruption and general unpleasantness.

Gee, I dunno, ask whover the fuck that moron is with just 48 posts who
began the derailment:

Palestine isn't the only country that the US support of Israel harms. There are other countries that Israel has been fighting off and on for decades, and no matter how much merdurous scumfuckery the PLO engages in, that says nothing about Jordan, Egypt, and whatever other independant non-Palestinean nations surround Israel.

[Plekhanov]

Actually I think you’ll find your very first post on this thread was a complete red herring.

I've never understood why the USA has such a hard-on for Israel. Although I've always supported them myself, their recent actions have made me change my opinion of Israel. Now I regard them as being little better than the Nazi's.

Read: Arafat's War by Efraim Karsh. It draws on multiple Hebrew,
Arabic, and English sources to show the truth behind Yassir and his PLO;
they're a bunch of murdering scumfucks who never ever change their
colors. Did you know that the PLO has never amended it's constitution
to change the "kill all jews" part? They keep sending the amendments
from committee to committee in the PNC.

That post PRECEDED the one by Sketerpot’s that you selectively quoted to try and justify your most recent irrelevant post. Sketerpot was actually responding to a previous red herring by you which might be why his post began:

What the hell does that have to do with Israel, or any of the other countries that Israel has found itself at odds with?

sketerpot may have a much lower post counts than you (as do I) so what, he has been contributing to this thread you’ve done nothing but try to disrupt it

[sketerpot]

The relative strengths of Israeli and Arab armour 40 years ago are irrelevant, as is Arafat’s record of corruption and general unpleasantness.

Gee, I dunno, ask whover the fuck that moron is with just 48 posts who
began the derailment:

That's a quote from one of my posts, so it looks like you're talking about me, and you just got the digits of my post count (84) switched around by accident.

Palestine isn't the only country that the US support of Israel harms. There are other countries that Israel has been fighting off and on for decades, and no matter how much merdurous scumfuckery the PLO engages in, that says nothing about Jordan, Egypt, and whatever other independant non-Palestinean nations surround Israel.

That was a derailment? I remember things differently. You answered a request for an explanation of why the US has such a hard-on for Israel with this:

Read: Arafat's War by Efraim Karsh. It draws on multiple Hebrew,
Arabic, and English sources to show the truth behind Yassir and his PLO;
they're a bunch of murdering scumfucks who never ever change their
colors. Did you know that the PLO has never amended it's constitution
to change the "kill all jews" part? They keep sending the amendments
from committee to committee in the PNC.

While it certainly seems true (I'm not disputing it), it is irrelevant to the question. Support for Israel and opposition to Palestine are not the same thing, and making Palestine look bad does not make Israel look good. I'd say that was the start of the derailment. I argued that Arafat and the PLO were irrelevant to the goodness of Israel, but things only got more baffling:

Yet they were never able to defeat the eeeeeeeeevil joooooooows,
despite having the full backing of the USSR, to buy tanks on credit
with virtually unlimited cash lines, while Israel had to fight to buy even
the most obsolete tanks on the market.

I was talking about whether or not the behaviour of the Palestinians made Israel worthy of support, and you came out with this weird thing about buying tanks! And then you turn around and say that I derailed the discussion, as if I was the one who had promoted Israel by attacking Palestine, or clicked a random link on his favorite Israeli Weaponry Wankoff page and decided to write about it here.