US Forces Raid A Mosque Looking For Weapons

[Aaron]

CBC

BAGHDAD - Insurgents in Iraq killed two U.S. soldiers and wounded five others in an ambush near the flashpoint city of Fallujah, on Sunday.

Soldiers at the scene said a vehicle that apparently was loaded with explosives blew up as a convoy of U.S. marines and army personnel passed by.

The assailants then opened fire with rocket-propelled grenades from a grove of palm trees.

Elsewhere in Iraq, U.S. and Iraqi forces raided a mosque in the city of Kufa. They claimed insurgents were using the mosque to store weapons.

According to the U.S. military at least 32 militants loyal to Muqtada al-Sadr, died in the fighting.

"There was an attack or raid by coalition forces on a suspected site that was being used by the Mahdi army to store weapons and that site happened to be the Sahla mosque in Kufa," said Maj. Patrick Carol a U.S. army spokesman.

Soldiers seized a machine gun, two mortar tubes and over 200 mortar rounds as well as rocket-propelled grenade launchers and rounds, according to a statement.

Sheik Mansoor al-Asadi, head of the central council of tribes in the Najaf area, said he was "astonished" over the Kufa raid. The city is one of the holiest sites in the Shia religion.

Although I'm sure that the Iraqi's will declare this a desecration of their holy sites, it's about time that the USA started to raid mosques. It's been evident for quite some time that the rebels are using them to store weapons and are using them as firebases.

[Crown]

I voted Yes.

I think it is the worst situation, and if handeled with respect and dignity (i.e try and not to put bullet holes all the way through the mosque), and try and spin it somehow (any weapon on a mosque defiles it) so that the US doesn't appear to be attacking Islam, it should be okay.

[HemlockGrey]

That article describes a 16:1 kill ratio. How is the insurgency still solvent?

[Aaron]

Isn't it illegal under the Geneva Convention to use places of worship for military purposes? Not that the rebels are signitory to the Conventions or even attempt to follow them.

[Aaron]

That article describes a 16:1 kill ratio. How is the insurgency still solvent?

How'd you come up with that ratio? The kill figures are probably exagerated, it's a common military practice.

[Ma Deuce]

I don't see why not, so long as they're careful and respectful about how they conduct the searches, have at least some evidence before going in, and they try to get participation from the local police/militia whenever possible.

In any case, the rebels should not be allowed to have places where they can conduct their operations with no fear of retaliation or arrest.

[Aaron]

In any case, the rebels should not be allowed to have places where they can conduct their operations with no fear of retaliation or arrest.

No they shouldn't, but the USA seems to be treating that part of the occupation with kid gloves. On one hand they use overwhelming force on a wedding and one the other hand they allow the rebels to operate with impunity out of mosques and other holy sites.

[Wicked Pilot]

Cops can raid churches in the United States with the proper warrants, so from a fairness prespective I see no such problem raiding mosque as long as it is legitimately warranted. As to whether it is a wise thing to do, that's another issue.

[RogueIce]

Cops can raid churches in the United States with the proper warrants, so from a fairness prespective I see no such problem raiding mosque as long as it is legitimately warranted. As to whether it is a wise thing to do, that's another issue.

More or less agree here. It may not be "wise" in the sense that you get the whole desecration thing going on, but on the other hand, giving your enemies who are trying to kill you a safe haven isn't a whole lot wiser to me.

One has the risk of getting more people incited to fight you; the other allows people who are already trying to fight you anyway stay alive, keep their weapons, etc. I guess it's sort of like taking out the enemy you know rather than worry about whether or not you'll make more enemies, and what those enemies do or don't do.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Cops can raid churches in the United States with the proper warrants, so from a fairness prespective I see no such problem raiding mosque as long as it is legitimately warranted. As to whether it is a wise thing to do, that's another issue.

I think probable cause can allow a church raid too. Things like people shooting AKs and RPGs I'd definitely count as 'Probable Cause'.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Isn't it illegal under the Geneva Convention to use places of worship for military purposes? Not that the rebels are signitory to the Conventions or even attempt to follow them.

Yes, using religious facilities for military purposes voids the protection they would receive under the geneva convention.

[Gandalf]

I've no issue with the searching of religious places for arms and such. Just as long as it's done right. Basically I mean with respect to their religion and such.

[RogueIce]

I've no issue with the searching of religious places for arms and such. Just as long as it's done right. Basically I mean with respect to their religion and such.

Dpes that mean they'd have to take off their boots, or is that a misconception?

[Gandalf]

I've no issue with the searching of religious places for arms and such. Just as long as it's done right. Basically I mean with respect to their religion and such.

Dpes that mean they'd have to take off their boots, or is that a misconception?

I mean respect as in not levelling the place. But taking off one's boots would be ok if feasible.

[Knife]

Tis good to go in my book. Perhaps a better strategy would be to have the Iraqi security forces raid the Mosques but if/when the coalition gets fired from from a mosque, I still have no problems with them returning fire in those instances either.

[Plekhanov]

As long as they have really and I mean really good intelligence to justify entering a mosque then go ahead. If they find weapons and so forth in there it may even work to turn moderate Iraqis against the insurgents if they’re seen to be exploiting holy sites and putting them at risk.

[Sea Skimmer]

I mean respect as in not levelling the place. But taking off one's boots would be ok if feasible.

Its not.

[kojikun]

Here's a spiffy idea: Get, oh, maybe the French or some sissy group like the UN or something to do weapons searches of mosques. Not only would it reduce international pressure to deunilateralize the whole Iraq endeavor but will be more permissable by the Iraqi's since it's an obviously wussy outside group that isn't American.

[Howedar]

If there's respectable evidence pointing to weapons within the mosque, I don't see why not. Just because a building is important to a religious group does not mean it should be sacrosanct from a legal and military standpoint.

[GySgt. Hartman]

Here's a spiffy idea: Get, oh, maybe the French or some sissy group like the UN or something to do weapons searches of mosques. Not only would it reduce international pressure to deunilateralize the whole Iraq endeavor but will be more permissable by the Iraqi's since it's an obviously wussy outside group that isn't American.

Yes, it's always a good idea to let someone else do the dirty work.
HINT: The French opposed the invasion of Iraq.

[Elfdart]

If religious people don't want God's house to get raided, God should give up his stash. Good call about hiding weapons in mosques. The instant the crew of an ambulance marked with Red Cross insignia starts drive-by shooting, that Red Cross protection in gone with the wind. Use both barrels, boys!

[Aaron]

Here's a spiffy idea: Get, oh, maybe the French or some sissy group like the UN or something to do weapons searches of mosques. Not only would it reduce international pressure to deunilateralize the whole Iraq endeavor but will be more permissable by the Iraqi's since it's an obviously wussy outside group that isn't American.

You obviously have no experience with the French Foreign Legion. If France where to suddenly change their minds and submit troops to Iraq you can bet the the Legion would be among them. Their tough as nails, and don't put up with any shit. You could not by any stretch of the imagination call them pussies.

[Ma Deuce]

You obviously have no experience with the French Foreign Legion.

Ah, but most of the Legionnaires aren't French (only the officers are, IIRC) .

If France where to suddenly change their minds and submit troops to Iraq you can bet the the Legion would be among them

Actually, they'd probably go in first.

[Durandal]

I mean respect as in not levelling the place. But taking off one's boots would be ok if feasible.

"We're here to search your mosque for weapons."
"Hm, okay. Just take your boots off first, please."

[Sarevok]

I woder if the soldiers took off their shoes while entering the Mosque. Entering Mosques with shoes is a serious offence from an Islamic point of view.