The IvP moratorium?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-05-23 08:11pm

I've noticed that IvP threads have been coming back with greater frequency lately. To a certain extent, this is understandable because there have been news stories about recent events in Israel. However, these threads tend to turn into debates about the history of Israel and Palestine rather than whatever current event initiated the thread, and those debates never change, which was why the IvP moratorium was created in the first place.

Should we be more strict about the moratorium, or more lax, or is the current policy of letting threads go until they start revolving around the past OK?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-05-23 08:16pm

I think the reason some of the threads devolve to endless arguments about past history is because some people (who shall remain nameless) bring up otherwise totally irrelevant information into debates about the current situation, therefor bogging down the whole thing.

If that kind of stuff is split off and locked from main discussion threads, I think the current policy is fine.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-05-23 08:19pm

Personally, though I don't participate in the I v P threads, I would think that the current loose rules have worked out nicely.

Threads pop up with current news in them and once in a while someone tries to make a I v P issue with it but it usually dies quickly because of the moritorium. Someone usually brings up the 'hey, isn't this against the moritorium?' and the issue dies.

Thats my interpertation, I have not seen any large flamefest over the I v P thing. Shep gave it a try in the Ireali's fire on protestors thread but even there it didn't take off.

Tis your board, but I don't see any problems with how it has been going. You can make an argument that the 'letter of the law' has been broke but the 'spirit of the law' remains intact because no big deal has erupted over it.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-05-23 08:27pm

I say leave it as a case-by-case situation with the understanding that there is a moratorium in place, if a thread devolves too far, nuke it.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-05-23 09:09pm

Case - by - case.

Most threads like these are usually avoided by the heavy I vs P crowd, or just elisit a single 'me too' post expressing outrage and moving on.

I would have split and locked Shep's red herrings and left the thread open (it would have died anyway).

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-05-23 09:10pm

Crown wrote:Case - by - case.

Most threads like these are usually avoided by the heavy I vs P crowd, or just elisit a single 'me too' post expressing outrage and moving on.

I would have split and locked Shep's red herrings and left the thread open (it would have died anyway).

Well, let's face it; the fact that an Israeli politician said something so harsh is technically news, but it's not really a new development in IvP, so it was pretty clear the thread could go nowhere. That's why I was second-guessing my decision not to lock it immediately, and looking for input.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-05-23 09:20pm

Darth Wong wrote:Well, let's face it; the fact that an Israeli politician said something so harsh is technically news, but it's not really a new development in IvP, so it was pretty clear the thread could go nowhere. That's why I was second-guessing my decision not to lock it immediately, and looking for input.

Oh I agree. It was news, but it was just going to elisit a few 'me too' posts expressing outrage and then it would have died. I don't know, a few people lock those threads on principal, others just let it run its course and die of dis-interest until the next new shiny thread appears.

But either way Shep's red herrings sealed its fate.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-05-23 09:20pm

As a new board member who was involved in a few of the more recent IvP threads including the last debacle aI should take my share of the responsibility here, I’ve learnt my lesson and in the future will attempt to stay on topic in my posts and ignore off topic trolling instead of attempting to reason with/being goaded by it.

As far as board policy goes I think that IvP threads should still be permitted but the mods should take a more interventionist approach splitting and locking OT stuff. A N&P forum which totally banned IvP would be incomplete, especially at the moment as it’s an issue that’s hard to ignore, on the other hand much as I find the subject hard to leave alone I wouldn’t like to see the current policy loosened because the general arguments are so well gone over as to be tedious and so well known as to be of no benefit to anybody be they contributing or reading.

The Aliens · Post by **The Aliens** » 2004-05-23 09:36pm

Status quo- it seems that until someone launches into a fit of red herrings they're reasonable threads. I think keeping the threads open for discussion and splitting and locking hijacks would keep it reasonably peaceful. If the thread itself starts turning into a flamewar, lock and HOS it, and that's the end of it.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2004-05-23 10:02pm

I'd say it should be a case-by-case thing.

The problem with such threads is that they seem to degenerate into flamefests that go nowhere, and the moratorium should apply to the threads that get out of hand.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-05-23 10:26pm

May I recommend that if a modern IvP thread gets derailed by trying to bring up and hash out irrelevent historical issues that the offending posts be split and locked rather than the entire thread getting nuked? Sometimes I've noticed what seems to be an intentional attempt to sabotage good threads by violating the moratorium, and I've also noticed that the mods are usually quick to lock the thread, thus giving the offender the satisfaction of sabotaging the discussion.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2004-05-23 10:30pm

If I didn't hate typing on my laptop so much, I could go into my personal thoughts in more detail, but it can be summed up basically in a case by case basis manner to deal with them, and just splitting/HoSing hijacks and such (like has been said, if it's not that much of a news item, it'll die of it's own accord anyway).

Of course, in my Preview window I see The Kernel brings up a good point, so I have to reluctantly "me-too" him.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2004-05-23 10:34pm

I believe a 'split-and-HoS/lock' policy would be sufficient to deal with any sabotage and hijacking, provided it's well and fairly enforced. The IvP moratorium can be upheld and we can still post news about I and P.

FYI: Just to let you guys know, I make no secret of my intense loathing for and anger at both I _and_ P, because their behavior is much less becoming of civilized nations than that of petulant, bloodthirsty children in desperate need of severe disciplinary action.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-23 10:42pm

As long as thread hijackers are weeded out, why not?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-05-24 01:03am

I like the current system. I might even loosen the standards a bit.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-05-24 01:31am

Split Sheppard's horseshit out of future threads which go south. Otherwise I see no reason for that thread and others like it in the future to be nuked.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-05-24 06:52am

Howedar wrote:I like the current system. I might even loosen the standards a bit.

agreed. no matter how hard you try and ignore the giant elephant in the living room, it's still there.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-05-24 07:26am

Probably every new change of events in the I/P conflict is tied to history, because the conflict itself is tied, no, rooted in history. So, it isn't surprising these debates eventually talk about the history. We are all grown ups here, and can walk away from a debate with someone who creates historical straw men. I'm in favour of being treated like an adult; please nuke the moratorium.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-05-24 08:00am

BoredShirtless wrote:Probably every new change of events in the I/P conflict is tied to history, because the conflict itself is tied, no, rooted in history. So, it isn't surprising these debates eventually talk about the history. We are all grown ups here, and can walk away from a debate with someone who creates historical straw men. I'm in favour of being treated like an adult; please nuke the moratorium.

for once i agree with BS. There needs to be a distiction drawn between hijacking with history and placing something into historical context.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2004-05-24 10:38am

Hey, we're all big boys, and nobody ever died from a messageboard thread. I say let them go at it unrestricted, and HoS individual threads that get out of hand, just like you would threads on any other topic.

I mean, what's the worst that's gonna happen? Lots of pointless flaming and rambling about history? Shit, those two things are this board's trademark.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-24 10:43am

I'm not going to tolerate your bullshit.
-Durandal

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-05-24 10:47am

Stop feeding the troll.
-Durandal